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Ok so I was having a discussion about tactics at my flgs and someone mentioned they use gate to escape from cc when it it advantages to do so. I countered intuitively that you could not cast gate while locked in cc, he responded with show me where in the rules it says you can't and that he had done this in a tournament setting. I couldn't find a rule against it or any help in the FAQs. What does dakka think?

This has been discussed multiple times. The answer is to check with your tournament organizer before the game.

Check with the TO, or the people you play with.

My local group does allow it.

Basically, one argument is that nothing in the psychic rules, not the deep strike rules prevent you doing this.
The other argument is that you can not leave CC unless you have a rule allowing you to, which GOI does not specify.

Both arguments have merits, neither side will admit defeat, and the thread decendes into ten pages of the same back and forth argument.

Veldrain wrote:Both arguments have merits, neither side will admit defeat, and the thread decendes into ten pages of the same back and forth argument.

Exactly so. Personally I'd lean toward not doing it as there are other similar powers that actually specify that you can leave close combat.

As for the OP's opponent's arguments... "Show me where you can't" is a worthless try - 40K is a permissive rules set, he should show you the rule that says he can do something. Being allowed to do something in a tournament also has nothing to do with it actually being correct - TOs are only humans and can be as mistaken as any of us. And the worst rules source of them all is generally GW staff. When you ask in two different shops (one phoned Nottingham) and both tell you that turboboosting Jetbikes must drive straight ahead and can't move over/ terrain, well, you get the idea.

Spetulhu wrote:As for the OP's opponent's arguments... "Show me where you can't" is a worthless try - 40K is a permissive rules set, he should show you the rule that says he can do something.

A Psyker is allowed to cast Psychic powers even whilst locked into CC.

now "Show me where you can't"


As for the OP, Read this thread, it was pretty well hashed out there:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/396093.page

Another sucky thing about the Gate of infinity wording is that it says to use the deep strike rules. Yet the deep strike rules are quite specific that if a unit wants to Deep Strike then it "must start the game in reserve". Which technically makes things a little awkward for the librarian if he did not start the game in reserve.

Aside from that, I see GoI as Psychic power which sends models into reserve. The argument that they are "moving off the table" doesn't hold much weight with me. As all good wargamers know that the universe ends at the edge of the table. There is no such place as "off the table" to move to. They go into reserve and are redeployed, there is no "movement" as such required. So you can use it to escape CC (IMHO).

But Deep Striking is defined as movement - so they are moving.

I don't have feelings one way or the other on this - it's a tactic that would be so rarely used as to be irrelevant imo.

DeathReaper wrote:

Spetulhu wrote:As for the OP's opponent's arguments... "Show me where you can't" is a worthless try - 40K is a permissive rules set, he should show you the rule that says he can do something.

A Psyker is allowed to cast Psychic powers even whilst locked into CC.

now "Show me where you can't"

A psyker cannot cast Psychic shooting attacks in CC.

I don't have an opinion on GOI - but it's not a shooting attack.

rigeld2 wrote:But Deep Striking is defined as movement - so they are moving.

However, by the time they Deep Strike they are no longer locked in CC, so there is no problem there.

Smacks wrote:However, by the time they Deep Strike they are no longer locked in CC, so there is no problem there.

Well, really the same can be said of (all) other movement too.

Once you move, you are (not in base contact, so are) not locked so are not prevented from moving.

Which is why a lot of folk think its silly.

RAW is unclear.

RAI is impossible to determine.

Check with your TO.

Polonius wrote:RAW is unclear.

RAI is impossible to determine.

Check with your TO.

Yes, this.

Polonius wrote:RAW is unclear.

RAI is impossible to determine.

Check with your TO.

Agreed.

kirsanth wrote:

Smacks wrote:However, by the time they Deep Strike they are no longer locked in CC, so there is no problem there.

Well, really the same can be said of (all) other movement too.

Once you move, you are (not in base contact, so are) not locked so are not prevented from moving.

Which is why a lot of folk think its silly.

That is clearly not the same. You can't move out of CC thus allowing yourself to move out of CC. (Even if that made sense, which it doesn't) The BRB has the rules for movement described on page 11, and forbids units in CC from moving using those rules.

EoI is a Psychic power which removes models from the table into pseudo-reserve. It does not use the rules for movement described on page 11, so I don't see why it should use the exception to movement on page 11 either. It is highly debatable whether that counts as a movement. Since the rules for Movement and EoL look nothing alike. I don't see it as being a movement any more than removing casualties is a movement.

Smacks wrote:I don't see it as being a movement

Sure, but many do. Thus the debates that continue.

This is one of the things that most people who understand the issue have on a list to discuss with new folks or ask a TO about.

This is, really, a moot point.

kirsanth wrote:

Smacks wrote:I don't see it as being a movement

Sure, but many do. Thus the debates that continue.

You quoted me out of context. Many people still believe that BA vanguard don't get get DoR, but that doesn't mean it is true.

I have seen issues in YMDC that were much more difficult than this one, where I genuinely thought "This needs to be FAQed". This issue comes up a lot, but it seems pretty cut and dry.

EoI is not a shooting type psychic power, so the exception under the psychic rules to using it in CC does not apply.

Eol is not a movement as described on page 11, so the exception to the movement rules on page 11 does not apply.

Since there are no exceptions. The psychic and EoI rules permit it to be used during the movement phase regardless of CC.

If other people want to twist the rules, in order to say something that they don't and make an issue out of it. Because that fits better with their version of RAI, then I guess they will always do that. But I think the rules are pretty clear on this.