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I remember we went around the horn talking about China's aspirations in the South China sea. Here's the future of thier surface navy.
DENVER (AP) — A commercial U.S. satellite company said it has captured a photo of China's first aircraft carrier in the Yellow Sea off the Chinese coast.
DigitalGlobe Inc. said Wednesday one of its satellites photographed the carrier Dec. 8. A DigitalGlobe analyst found the image Tuesday while searching through photos.
Stephen Wood, director of DigitalGlobe's analysis center, said he's confident the ship is the Chinese carrier because of the location and date of the photo. The carrier was on a sea trial at the time.
DigitalGlobe, based in Longmont, Colo., sells satellite imagery and analysis to clients that include the U.S. military, emergency response agencies and private companies. DigitalGlobe has three orbiting satellites and a fourth is under construction.
The aircraft carrier has generated intense international interest because of what it might portend about China's intentions as a military power.
The former Soviet Union started building the carrier, which it called the Varyag, but never finished it. When the Soviet Union collapsed, it ended up in the hands of Ukraine, a former Soviet republic.
China bought the ship from Ukraine in 1998 and spent years refurbishing it. It had no engines, weaponry or navigation systems when China acquired it.
China has said the carrier is intended for research and training, which has led to speculation that it plans to build future copies.
China initially said little about its plans for the carrier but has been more open in recent years, said Bonnie S. Glaser, a China expert at the Center for Strategic and International Studies.
"It wasn't until the Chinese actually announced they were sending it out on a trial run they admitted, 'Yes, we are actually launching a carrier,'" she said.
China publicly announced two sea trials for the carrier that occurred this year, she said.
The carrier's progress is in line with the U.S. military's expectations, said Cmdr. Leslie Hull-Ryde, a Defense Department spokeswoman.
A Defense Department report to Congress this year said the carrier could become operationally available to the Chinese navy by the end of next year but without aircraft.
"From that point, it will take several additional years before the carrier has an operationally viable air group," Hull-Ryde said in an email.
She declined to comment on the DigitalGlobe photo, saying it was an intelligence matter.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/12/22 08:59:16
Avatar 720 wrote: You see, to Auston, everyone is a Death Star; there's only one way you can take it and that's through a small gap at the back.
Powder Burns wrote:what they need to make is a fullsize leatherman, like 14" long folded, with a bone saw, notches for bowstring, signaling flare, electrical hand crank generator, bolt cutters..
If you look really close you can see the training wheels on it....aaahhhh its cute. notice the white "HIT ME HERE" dot on it
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/12/22 09:36:00
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Never seen a white dot on US aircraft carriers. From the position of the dot on the deck of the carrier I think thats where their catapult hookup is at. Is this their training carrier?
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
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DE 6700
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Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
Or helo and VTOL landing markers for the circles. The white dot though seems to be in the right place for the catapult system.
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
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DE 6700
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RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
Jihadin wrote:Never seen a white dot on US aircraft carriers. From the position of the dot on the deck of the carrier I think thats where their catapult hookup is at. Is this their training carrier?
It's at the center of the image, so it's probably the equivalent of cross-hairs for the satellite image.
Anyway, I was making a joke about conspicuous targets.
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
Might as well skip the sea warfare and punch out your opponent infantry style.
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
Jihadin wrote:Or helo and VTOL landing markers for the circles. The white dot though seems to be in the right place for the catapult system.
The five white circles are where you put the pegs in from Battleship. As you can see, one is already filled in, designating a 'hit'.
Nah, it was nerfed and this carrier was only given Hull:4 in the new Codex China.
n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.
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Jihadin wrote:Never seen a white dot on US aircraft carriers. From the position of the dot on the deck of the carrier I think thats where their catapult hookup is at. Is this their training carrier?
Those markings were standard in the Soviet Navy and they are VTOL and Helicopter landing markings, but not the catapults. The solid dot I'm pretty sure is for daytime landing because its the only one ON centerline. I'm pretty sure those circles demark the helicopter danger area and/or on deck maintenance areas, as I've seen images of the Yak VTOLs doing engine run ups on the spots but taking off anywhere.
dogma wrote:
Either way, basically a slightly bigger de Gaulle.
De Gaulle is actually a pretty small ship in the grand scheme of things. Had Varyag been completed she would have displaced almost twice as much as De Gaulle, and shes about 200ft longer. The UK Elizabeth class will actually be comparable in size. But Kudos for the reference De Gaulle is an interesting ship, I think she also convinced the Brits NOT to nuke up their carriers.
Avatar 720 wrote: You see, to Auston, everyone is a Death Star; there's only one way you can take it and that's through a small gap at the back.
Powder Burns wrote:what they need to make is a fullsize leatherman, like 14" long folded, with a bone saw, notches for bowstring, signaling flare, electrical hand crank generator, bolt cutters..
Powder Burns wrote:what they need to make is a fullsize leatherman, like 14" long folded, with a bone saw, notches for bowstring, signaling flare, electrical hand crank generator, bolt cutters..
Completely non-threatened by this, the next generation of anti-ship weaponry which is currently being developed is going to see the end of carrier dominance and the second coming of the battlewagon
CoALabaer wrote: Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
Powder Burns wrote:what they need to make is a fullsize leatherman, like 14" long folded, with a bone saw, notches for bowstring, signaling flare, electrical hand crank generator, bolt cutters..
Just as aircraft carriers replaced battleships, so too will something replace aircraft carriers. Don't know what it'll be, but I'm hoping it will be a giant, mechanical kraken that drags ships to their doom. Similar to the one in Dreadfleet!
Back OT if the Chinese had rolled this out 20 years ago, I would have been bothered, but meh.
Scary thought: What if they sail to the Falklands and ally with Argentina, could a British sub take this baby out?
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
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Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:Just as aircraft carriers replaced battleships, so too will something replace aircraft carriers.
Perhaps a prophecy of sort?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
chaos0xomega wrote:Completely non-threatened by this, the next generation of anti-ship weaponry which is currently being developed is going to see the end of carrier dominance and the second coming of the battlewagon
Is this like that plan to retrofit B-1s to carry Phoenix missiles in order to act as "aerial artillery?"
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/12/22 21:33:05
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
chaos0xomega wrote:Completely non-threatened by this, the next generation of anti-ship weaponry which is currently being developed is going to see the end of carrier dominance and the second coming of the battlewagon
I disagree. We've reached a certain zenith of technological capability slightly unforseen by the likes of Mahan and Corbett, however many of the principles of maritime power projection still remain the same. Bar the development of submarine based carriers, an idea that was abandoned a good sixty years ago, the ability to provide localised air dominance is something critical to the conducting of amphibious operations, and will remain so.
Ketara wrote: Bar the development of submarine based carriers, an idea that was abandoned a good sixty years ago, the ability to provide localised air dominance is something critical to the conducting of amphibious operations, and will remain so.
Are you trying to tell me that Scinfaxi wasn't a real vessel?
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
Ketara wrote: Bar the development of submarine based carriers, an idea that was abandoned a good sixty years ago, the ability to provide localised air dominance is something critical to the conducting of amphibious operations, and will remain so.
Are you trying to tell me that Scinfaxi wasn't a real vessel?
Powder Burns wrote:what they need to make is a fullsize leatherman, like 14" long folded, with a bone saw, notches for bowstring, signaling flare, electrical hand crank generator, bolt cutters..
Ketara wrote: Bar the development of submarine based carriers, an idea that was abandoned a good sixty years ago, the ability to provide localised air dominance is something critical to the conducting of amphibious operations, and will remain so.
Are you trying to tell me that Scinfaxi wasn't a real vessel?
Interesting, but under current technology, completely unfeasible. There's a certain point at which physics interferes, namely the gravitational pull of the planet. No fighter craft can carry enough fuel to boost itself back up to orbit after a deployment from an orbital station, and even presuming you wished to simply deploy from orbit, shipping the craft and raw fuels back up on a rocket would be prohibitively expensive. Until a space elevator becomes a possibility (and we're a considerable way from even that), even the most basic of deployment options under such a technique is simply not an option.
No, Carriers are here to stay for at least another fifty years, and I reckon a hundred or so personally. It's all well and good to claim that orbital platforms may be a future possibility, but that's like me pointing at Mars as a possible source of extra water. Theoretically possible, but no time soon.
Interesting, but under current technology, completely unfeasible. There's a certain point at which physics interferes, namely the gravitational pull of the planet. No fighter craft can carry enough fuel to boost itself back up to orbit after a deployment from an orbital station, and even presuming you wished to simply deploy from orbit, shipping the craft and raw fuels back up on a rocket would be prohibitively expensive. Until a space elevator becomes a possibility (and we're a considerable way from even that), even the most basic of deployment options under such a technique is simply not an option.
No, Carriers are here to stay for at least another fifty years, and I reckon a hundred or so personally. It's all well and good to claim that orbital platforms may be a future possibility, but that's like me pointing at Mars as a possible source of extra water. Theoretically possible, but no time soon.
This may blow your mind, but the report that paper was supposed to be linked to (to my knowledge the space carrier paper was never completed) "Airforce 2025" was written in 1995. It's intreresting if you flip through it to see what's still in place, what already happened and even what thier worries were. There's a little graph in the "Strikestar" paper that talks about defense spending, one of the labels was "Global Recession 2018"
I think most of the issues you mentioned were up front in the abstract, and I have to figure without a significant break through in propulsion technology there's little feasability. But I thougt it was interesting nonetheless.
Avatar 720 wrote: You see, to Auston, everyone is a Death Star; there's only one way you can take it and that's through a small gap at the back.
Powder Burns wrote:what they need to make is a fullsize leatherman, like 14" long folded, with a bone saw, notches for bowstring, signaling flare, electrical hand crank generator, bolt cutters..
Not for ever, look at the Pax Britannia...
Ships will always be at the mercy of submarines I would have thought. Also, have they removed the ski ramp on that, or is it just because it's a top down picture?
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Polonius wrote:Also, GW products aren't movies. They can't be "spoiled."
I suppose the surprise can be spoiled, but still, nobody is paying for the surprise.
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notice the white "HIT ME HERE" dot on it
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