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Hello everyone, have an IG army but maybe everyone could add some constructive criticism.

CCS 4x Plasma
Chimera

CCS 4xPlasma
Chimera

StormTrooper x5 Meltax2

StormTrooper x5 Meltax2

Veteran Meltax3
(Vendetta)

Veteran Meltax3
(Vendetta)

PIS
IS ACx1
IS Flamer
IS ACx1

HW Lascannonx3
HW Lascannonx3
HW Lascannonx3

Vendetta

Vendetta

LemanRuss Demolisher

LemanRuss Demolisher

Hydra Flak Tank x2

concept (and mind you this is all theorycraft) is to have an established gunline PIS complete with Vendetta/Stormtroopers taking out targets of oppurtunity on enemy side and Demolishers/Hydras/and CCS for short/medium range targets

i had replaced a near full PBS w/Chimera for the Stormtroopers and was wondering whether that was a good idea? i am not sold on the Troopers (210 points all together) and was wondering if perhaps another Plt Comm Squad with IS ACx1 and another lascannon HW team would be better (basically splitting the 2 PIS with 2IS and 2 Lascannon HW teams a piece?

any thoughts on the matter would be greatly appreciated

I look at it this way: If your Egg A(Vets) is in Egg B(Vendetta), then you just made it easier for your opponent
and harder on you. I put my Vets in Chimera, creating 2 AV12 pains to deal with.

I think you are going to have a hard time keeping all those HWS around without help.

I was using the vets to get to hard to reach places, Dev Squads/Tau/etc.

do they last longer in a chimera traveling 12" than 24" in a Valk/Vend?

what would be a good way to keep my gun lines (lascannon teams) from bolting Lord Commisar maybe?

are stormtroopers worth the points? they can take out marines with hotshots pretty good and have scout armor saves but they seem expensive. maybe another Vet-melta with chimera's? instead

thx for the input.

The lord commissar does the best job of keeping the HWS in line, but I usually hide him in a CCS with a regimental standard as well. Maybe hide him in a blob. The regimental standard by itself is a less expensive way to help them stay, but then you need to stay-at-home with a CCS.

I would deep strike the STs vs Longs fangs and anti armor. Good choice.

Vendettas get shot pretty easily these days(missile spam), if you have the models already you should use them of course.

Not sure about your Infantry squad. What is the platoon squad doing? I know your doing it for the HWs, but seems squishy. Is that the bubble wrap for your artillery?

Maybe reduce the costly HWs units and do a melta vet chimera troop lists?

I like the HQ, Elite and HVY choices!

Thank you everyone for the feedback, as i said im a newb so a lot of this is theorycrafting.

i guess i could go full on vet mech, i take it most people dont care for HWT they seem the best target for BiD or FOMT tho?

do Chimera's actually make it to their targets usually?

if i pulled a plasma gunner from my CCS and traded him for a standard would that make them more effective, as long as they are within range?

dunno, like having a 60 team (AC) with my line unit, but im not sold on that as of yet.

how well do Hydra's perform, the one game i played they were completely inneffective as i only had lanes for my HWT and Demolishers.

thinking of pulling the Hydra's and adding a manticore?

RegulusBlack wrote:Thank you everyone for the feedback, as i said im a newb so a lot of this is theorycrafting.

i guess i could go full on vet mech, i take it most people dont care for HWT they seem the best target for BiD or FOMT tho?

do Chimera's actually make it to their targets usually?

if i pulled a plasma gunner from my CCS and traded him for a standard would that make them more effective, as long as they are within range?

dunno, like having a 60 team (AC) with my line unit, but im not sold on that as of yet.

how well do Hydra's perform, the one game i played they were completely inneffective as i only had lanes for my HWT and Demolishers.

thinking of pulling the Hydra's and adding a manticore?

Your experience is more important than anyone elses, IMHO.

I love my Hydras, and run them in 99% of my lists.

HWT are canidates for those very orders. but they're also fragile as wet paper.
you don't have to kill them all, just enough to make the rest run.

Chimeras making it to their target depends on what the rest of your list is looking like. if you run 6-9
of them, there's a much greater chance. if you're running 2-3, odds aren't so good.

Yeah, the problem with Mech is that to really be effective you need to run them as a hoard list, specially the higher you go in point totals.

Your list seems confused as to what you really want to do with it. You have alot of static units and attacking units. I am not sure if you really understand the roles of the units you have in your list...

I personally love my HWSs and run foot IG myself. What /alot/ of people seem to fail on is that HWSs and the like /need/ cover to survive. If something gets close enough to flame them out, you failed the list, the list did not fail you.

Yeah, a Lord Commissar with his 'Aura of Discipline' and a camo cloak means all your units are alot more survivable. If you want to risk the 'execution' special rule, you can throw him in a HWS. If he has a camo cloak, he gives the unit a 3+ cover save and Stubborn. With the Camo Cloak, he is still 5pts cheaper then Kell.

If you think you want to give more than 2 Orders a turn, Creed is your man. He also extends his Order range to 24", has several special Orders and abilities ('For Cadia!' and Tactical Genius) and is really a must for any foot list that wants to do Orders (IMO).

Creed, Kell, and a Lord Commissar are /very/ expensive though, so most people just run Creed and the Lord. They then get Commissars for the other units (and blob them) to make it easier for Orders.

My Standard layout for a CCS is: LC, 2x Plasma guns, Camo Cloaks, Creed for 210pts. You can use the 3+ cover save (if your in a woods for example) for 'Get's Hot!' saves, Creed's range is beyond the range of a Standard so I skip it, and the BS 4 means the CCS is hitting what they shoot at without Orders, but as an option since they are out of a Chimera, I can not issue Orders to my own CCS. I would /never/ put a Lord Commissar in a CCS because of the 'execution' special rule.

The real problem with your proposed list is that you have units like the Demolishers. Due to the 'Lumbering Behemoth', LRBTs should always be moving. That and to avoid getting auto-hits on their AV 10-11 rear armor.

Alot of attacking lists want to within a certain range of the enemy based off of the main weapon of the list (like say Melta guns). Since Melta guns want to be within 12" and 6" of a vehicle, I don't like using scattereable artillery or things like Demolishers because I don't want to risk scattering into my own stuff.

If you want to sit back and shoot, going gunline with multiple platoons, HWSs, and artillery may be your best course of action.

Thank you everyone for your feedback, here is a new list i would like to try, (its more mech guard) but still gives me a few static troops. (one thing i have heard that hurts mechguard is that with a little terrain vehicles can get "funneled" into kill zones) anyway this list allows for a little more effectiveness based on the amount of AV (melta/las/vendettas and plasma/AC/demolishers for light) plus mobile infantry with good camping ability?

the SWS are in the Vendetta's for a burst into enemy lines or flanking for rear static targets (artillery/DEvs)

i guess i have 2 questions

1. is one Hydra worth it (i have seen a lot of DE bikes and SM Speeders at the store recently)
2. should i pull the lascannon teams (2) for (2) 5-man Stormtrooper squads w/melta's (same cost)

thanks again for any input as it has already been a big help in establishing what i want to do with my army.

Rangers lead the way

Updated List:

HQ -
Company Command Squad
Plasma Gun x4
Plasma Pistol
Chimera

Company Command Squad
Plasma Gun x4
Plasma Pistol
Chimera

TROOP
Platoon Command Squad
Flamers x2
Autocannon

Infantry Squad
Autocannon

Infantry Squad
Autocannon

Heavy Weapons Team
Lascannons x3

Heavy Weapons Team
Lascannons x3

Special Weapons Team
Flamers x3
Demolitions

Special Weapons Team
Flamers x3
Demolitions

Veteran Squad
Meltas x3
Chimera

Veteran Squad
Meltas x3
Chimera

Veteran Squad
Meltas x3
Chimera

HEAVY SUPPORT
Leman Russ Battle Tank
Demolisher

Leman Russ Battle Tank
Demolisher

Hydra Flak Tank

FAST ATTACK
Vendetta

Vendetta

I like your list(dont think you supposed to post up points costs though). I use one Hydra from time to time. Either just like you have it with two demo or russ variants or with two manticores. Nothing wrong with one hydra. Some would argue the hvy spot itself is more valuable than the 75pts for it. But if it fits, like yours does, why not.

The PP points on the CCSs are kind of throw away points. I like ST option but Im just on a kick. They can be very disruptive to gunline armor and longfangs. This would compliment your vendettas well. However, HWS lascannons with orders are no fun to face either. Hidden it cover, they can cause fits and be either avoided or made a priority by opponents.

If you take away the plasma pistols you can add some special weapons to your infantry.

SWS- maybe one flamers and one meltas if you can fit. Demos are always fun!

thx byte for the feedback

if i pull the plasma pistols,i can replace the (2) flamers for (2) melta's in each of the SWS squads which would make them a more viable threat to rear vehicles?

It sure would. Keep in mind that running the vendettas up to deploy the sws really exposes the vendettas. Thats why I like STs, performs the same role but with ap3 rifles and I keep my fliers for reactionary options vice single purpose. Hard to not want to bring all the lascannon to bare from range.

Lets look at elites options are see how that racks up.

Maybe 2 ST units with melta and Marbo(deep strile demo). You might achieve this by removing the HWS and keeping the sws with flamers(or keep meltas if you can). HWS costs a lot of points for some reason(to much i think not very efficient from the LD and BS skill).

Still having the SWS able to ride in the Dettas would be pretty cool. Depending on game plan you could mount them or tuck them in cover to defend objectives. Thats a nice option.

The flamers with the AC PCS are wasted, switch them out for sniper rifles or GLs.

Your first SWS squads where wrong, dunno if you pointed them wrong, but you have 3 special weapon slots, and a Demo Charge takes up one of those slots, so you can only have a maximum of two other weapons. I personally like flamers as the Vendetta is more valuable sitting back shooting three twin linked Lascannon shots a turn then to suicide up two 50% miss chance melta guns. Your throwing away the Vendetta /AND/ the squad. If your gonna use the squad, use them for late game objective capturing by cleaning out cover save based troops.

Here is the real difference between your STs and LC HWS... Your LC HWS is firing turn 1, your STs will probably come on round 3, specially without a Astropath. And a Astropath is not worth it unless you have at least 3+ units coming in from reserve. HWSs are also scoring troops, where your ST are not. Your also need to assume the STs are dead after they land (I am guessing Airbourne Assault) and can still scatter into terrain or a enemy unit and be lost without firing a shot. This means they are not reliable AT, while your LC HWSs are.

This is how I would do your list...

CCS - 150pts (camps with HWSs)
LC, Plasma gun, Standard, Camo Cloaks, OotF

CCS - 165pts
4x Plasma guns, Chimera ML/HF

Vets - 165pts
3x Melta guns, Plasma Pistol, Chimera ML/HF

Vets - 165pts
3x Melta guns, Plasma Pistol, Chimera ML/HF

Vets - 165pts
3x Melta guns, Plasma Pistol, Chimera ML/HF

Vets - 165pts
3x Melta guns, Plasma Pistol, Chimera ML/HF

PCS - 105pts
4x Flamers, Chimera ML/HF

PIS - 60pts (in Vendetta)
Flamer, Melta bomb

PIS - 60pts (in Vendetta)
Flamer, Melta bomb

LC HWS - 105pts (in cover, within 12" of CCS)

LC HWS - 105pts (in cover, within 12" of CCS)

Vendetta - 130pts

Vendetta - 130pts

Demolisher - 165pts

Demolisher - 165pts

2000pts

Gives you 13 LC shots from 5 sources a turn, with a even chance of 12 shots being Twin Linked from the CCS giving the HWSs 'Bring it Down!' (against Vehicles and MCs). The CCS can now give itself Orders too, but at BS 4, probably not needed. The HWSs and CCS can now also camp a home objective freeing up your vehicles. You now have 6 Chimeras, 2 Vendettas, and 2 Demolishers attacking your opponent to go with all of those LC shots. So you can add on 18 multi-laser shots and 6 HB shots to go with all the Heavy Flamers for hoards.

Hope this helps or at least gives you some food for thought.

Blktom- How often do you face longfangs?

I guess the questions becomes, OP are you making an AT lists or an all comers? Do you have an opponent in mind or tourney environment?

I face them often enough. That is why I said this in the first line of my first post...

Yeah, the problem with Mech is that to really be effective you need to run them as a hoard list, specially the higher you go in point totals.

3 units of Longfanges is 6 targets they can fire on, giving them the capability to put two heavy weapons per Chimera (probably MLs) with a 4+ to glance.

Razorspam is just as bad IMO.

But there is an Order called 'Fire on my Target!' that forces cover save re-rolls, so if the list I made above goes against longfangs and they are in cover (they better be), the Lascannons can hopefully kill a few in a volley or two.

To really overcome another gunline list in a mech list is to make it mech hoard. You want as many Chimeras as possible, and to make those Chimeras dangerous, you want at least 3 melta guns backing it up. 10 Chimeras with Melta vets is 1550pts, so 12 Chimeras in a 2000pt game is /very/ possible, just boring as hell and has no long range AT unless your throwing Vets in there. And then if you throw two LRBT variants in there to run interfearance and /maybe/ give your Chimeras some cover (for cover saves), well, your diluting the hoard but your making it more effective. Just like actually facing 3 squads of Longfangs means that is going to be the Core of the SW list, most times your facing 2 squads max.