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So sorry, a little ranting before I proceed to the army list.

Ten days ago, I've won the Overall Champion title for the 4th annual Legio Malaysia Tournament, which was held as part of the 1st MaGaCon (Malaysian Games Convention) in Kuala Lumpur, using my Templars of The Blood Crusade a.k.a The Red Templars gun-line list. There were a lot of skepticism on the viability of using old codex against the latest codex, but I managed to prove that the old BT codex can still bare its fangs.

The only pic I have of my army, courtesy of a freelance photographer on that day (forgot to bring my own camera)


Having achieved that, I was asked a couple of very critical questions: What will you do next? Are you still going to continue with the tried & tested BT gun-line, or are you going to re-embrace the essence of BT, which specializes at close combat?

My answer at that time:

Unfortunately, the codex BT has given the BT players a wealth of options to build a superior shooty list compared to a pure assault list. Comparatively, a competitive orthodox BT close combat list, in my opinion, is quite difficult to build & play, mainly due to the problems of the delivery system for the cc units, as well as the Troop choice (Crusader Sqd) being not that good in cc.


10 days later, after spending some time thinking, I find myself quite intrigued & tempted to the idea of building cc oriented BT list. Like I've mentioned, it is not an eazy list to come up with, especially when I'm limited to 1750pts. So without further ado, here is my take of a cc BT list.

Red Templars Line-Breakers (1750pts)

HQ
1. Casellan: Lightning Claw, Stormshield, Bionics, Frag, Holy Orb, Teleport Homer (to be embarked in the LRC)

2. Emperor's Champion: Vow - AACNMTO (to be embarked in the LRC)


TROOPS
1. Crusader Sqd: 5 Initates, Bolters, 1 x Lascannon

2. Crusader Sqd: 5 Initates, Bolters, 1 x Lascannon


ELITES
1. Assault Terminators: 6 Terminators, 2 LCs, 4 THs & SSs, Vet. Skill - Furious Charge (to be embarked in the LRC)

2. Assault Terminators: 5 Terminators, 2 LCs, 3 THs & SSs, Vet. Skill - Furious Charge (deepstriking)

3. Assault Terminators: 5 Terminators, 2 LCs, 3 THs & SSs, Vet. Skill - Furious Charge (deepstriking)


HEAVY SUPPORTS
1. Vindicator: PoTMS, Dozer Blades, Extra Armour

2. Vindicator: PoTMS, Dozer Blades, Extra Armour

3. LRC: Basic + Dozer Blades, Searchlight, Smoke Launcher


Total Points = 1748pts
KP Awarded = 10


If you have any comments, opinions, ideas or experience, on building effective cc-oriented BT list, feel free to share them with me please. Thank you.

Looks good, altho with 2 5man sqds you are lacking objective takers

i think your deepstriking terminators should be hammer and shield heavy , but the one driving up should have lightning claw heavy, cause with lighnting claws, with 6 guys that 4attacks each, thats 24 str5 int 5 ,reroll to hit and wound power weapon attacks on the charge , that will eat just about any thing. and the deepstriking guys cant assualt when they come down and will be taking lots of fire so will need the better saves. Just my input.

A couple of things I think are iffy 'bout this list, do note that this is purely my opinion and i'm not trying to tell you what to do because clearly your no newbie:

Your HQs are fine and so are the heavy support (though I do feel you lack long range fire support too much to be running vinidis) but everything else is just too messed up IMO.

I'll start off with your troops. I'm going to go ahead and assume they'll be sitting back on objectives since I can't see what else they can do. That's fine and all but I really don't think they'll survive too long against some armies, in fact I don't think they'll make it to the second turn against armies with Deepstrikers of their own and/or infiltrators. Also, with their arguably miniscule size of only 5 men you might as well start your opponent off with 2 KPs and they won't be too much of a pain to remove from the table with small amounts of redirected firepower. With my lists that clock in over 1,500 pts I at the very least have 3 decent sized squads or 4+ smaller squads if i'm running them in 'backs. Come to think of it I max out my troop choices at the point level with every army other than guard and marines, guard because their platoons are nuts and marines because their too expensive and they have much better units elsewhere. My suggestion would be to add in more troops or beef up their current sizes, at the very least put these guys in some form of a transport (i'm thinking 'backs but I know you want a more CC oriented army for a change).

Now for your termies which are majorly flawed IMO. Problem A they soak up like 4/5 or your points and problem B they arn't being fielded optimally. Your running assault terminators by DEEPSTRIKE, you should slap yourself just for doing that alone, i'm kidding don't, but seriously you cannot do that. I'm sure you know this already but in addition to the termies not being able to assault the turn they come on and having no shooting weapons to make up for this, all your opponent's firepower/manpower will be redirected to this boys and they will either be brought down so much they are no longer of any use or be killed altogether. Two platoons firing with first rank fire, second rank fire will kill your two squads with just lasguns and they cost like 2/5 of your termies. Seems to me like your trying to run a DeathWing list with Templars. It isn't going to work unless your playing super-casual and get lucky.

Hope I don't come across as telling you that the list sucks and as a result you suck, it's just my opinion on the list. I think you know what you have to do to improve it.

First of all, Solidarity Brother! A fellow Templar

In reference to your list, I'd lose a Termie Squad to get a large Crusader squad, not so much to claim objectives but to divert attention from the other choices as well

@KsTracer: Hahaha..no prob dude. I always take most of the comments as constructive criticism. Still, I'm not going to go deep in the question of "How many Troops do you need to win objective games?". To me, each players have their own preference, tactics & style when building their army list. For me, I've always find that 2 scoring units are just nice for me & my army/armies.

A bit off topic, but in the tournament that I've mentioned on the above, 2/3 battle missions were objective missions with the 1st game being a straight out KP match. 2nd game required both armies to rush & secure the sole objective right at the center of the table. The last mission required both armies to secure D3+2 objectives which are poisoned (every game turn, non-vehicles within 2d6" suffer d6 S2 shooting hits no armour sv, vehicles suffer 1 auto-glancing hit on d6 roll of 6+).

My battle score record: 52/54 BPs with zero losses in all my games for my 2 scoring units.

Which is why (now I'm back to the topic) I only put forward 2 x 5-men for my Troops in this cc BT list. I've become so accustomed with this set-up, been using the same style for years that I don't feel comfortable or convinced that I need to change it.

My fellow gamers here in Malaysia even recognized & nick-named it (any army list with only 2 Troops) as 'Din's Approached'.

All I can say is, to each his own...


About the Assault Terminators, you are quite right. The thing is, I already mentioned in my 1st posting that the main problem with a cc-oriented BT is the delivery system.

Nevertheless, I'd definitely take what you said into account i.e I would never deepstrike them right smack in front of an IG-blob. Most likely I'd use the LRC & Vindicators as mobile BLOS, as well as any other fixed terrains available to screen them from becoming opponent's target practice.

And yes I realized this list is lacking in long ranged firepower. Like I've said, cc-oriented BT is waaay difficult to play compared to shooty BT.


@Crusader: Nice Bretonnian avatar you have there. Did you know that I used a Bretonnian Knights of The Realm sword arm as conversion for my simple Emperor's champion? It has a nice fleur de lyse (is this spelled correctly?) that suits the EC quite well.

Anyway, I don't quite like playing a blob-Crusader Sqd. They are a bit..lacking..in my personal opinion.

What I can do is take out both Castellan & 3rd Aslt Termi sqd, take out dozer blades from both Vindies, take out smoke launcher from LRC#1, & swap all these points for a 2nd LRC & boost up the size of 2nd Aslt Termie sqd to 7-men.

Thus, the new list would be like this:

Red Templars Line-Breakers (1750pts) Version 2.0

HQ
1. Emperor's Champion: Vow - AACNMTO (to be embarked in the LRC #1)


TROOPS
1. Crusader Sqd: 5 Initates, Bolters, 1 x Lascannon

2. Crusader Sqd: 5 Initates, Bolters, 1 x Lascannon


ELITES
1. Assault Terminators: 6 Terminators, 2 LCs, 4 THs & SSs, Vet. Skill - Furious Charge (to be embarked in the LRC #1)
Transport: LRC #1: Basic + Dozer Blades, Searchlight

2. Assault Terminators: 7 Terminators, 3 LCs, 4 THs & SSs, Vet. Skill - Furious Charge (to be embarked in the LRC #2)


HEAVY SUPPORTS
1. Vindicator: PoTMS, Extra Armour

2. Vindicator: PoTMS, Extra Armour

3. LRC #2: Basic + Dozer Blades


Total Points = 1750pts
KP Awarded = 9

PS: I'd hate to fight DE or Eldar with this list.

Thanks Dude, its not so much you havent got enough firepower, its that your objective holding capacity is lacking somewhat. The reason I said a big Crusader squad was 2-fold:

A. They'll have enough bodies to get there relatively unscathed
B. they'll serve as another bullet magnet thus diverting attention away from the main source of CQB oumph i.e Assault Terminators

Congratulations. I was in no doubt that the BT gunline is one of the best army lists available, but then to be able to show this is another matter
I think you can afford two land raiders because of blessed hull.
Also I agree with 5 man squads for the gunline however here they will be left behind and whilst they can offer assault options.

It will not be as easy but I am sure you'll do all right. Good luck

I knew there was a reason a tournament winning player would even think of only getting two 5 man troops at 1750 pts. If you play custom scenarios a lot then your proposed lists are perfectly fine. Second list, all things considered, looks to be quite awesome actually. Two vinidies and two Land Raiders advancing up field should be hell for your opponents. Good Luck!

Note: I still don't think it's the most competative list out there but you probably know what to do when you really want to win.

Yup, I've played enough custom tournament scenarios to realise some very important rules - just play the army & units that you really love to play, be confident with your own tactics/game-plan, & most importantly..have fun!!

I don't know how it's done in your place/club/region/country..but over here the tournament battle missions were never revealed until the D-Day itself. No rumours or tips or notes were given to the participants on what missions or scenarios or what quirky rules that might come up during the tournament. So far, the tournament organizers have done some over-the-top battle missions, & we are just as happy with the way it is.

Back to the list, I might just try the Version 2.0 list this weekend. Nothing is finalized yet, cuz I have a version 3.0 in mind, one that uses the old-school Rhino-rush tactic. I'll give an update soon.