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Although I'm restarting 40k again after a hiatus of about 4 years, I like to build my army up to the largest block I'd realistically play at and then remove components for smaller games. This makes it feel more like a coherent theme, limits the purchasing, and allows for better in-game skill-building. Build it right the first time!

Here's what I've come up:

Vulkan He'stan - 190

5 Assault Terminators with TH/SS - 200
*Land Raider w/Extra Armor*** - 265

2*Dreadnought w/Multi-melta and Heavy Flamer + Drop Pod - 150*2 = 300

**3 Tactical Squads of 10 with Flamer, Multi-melta
Sergeant with Combi-Melta and Powerfist
Rhino
Total:240*3 = 720

3* Landspeeder Tornado w/Multi-melta and Heavy Flamer - 70*3 = 210

Vindicator - 115

Total: 2000

*Which Land Raider model should I take? Although the Redeemer seems fluffy, I don't think its flame cannons get the boost from Vulkan (Multi-Melta does). I'm thinking the standard Land Raider with Lascannons would be good for early game shooting against transports and some longer range firepower that my army doesn't have.

**How are my tactical squad loadouts? Which load out is better Flamer, Multi-Melta, and Combi-Melta vs. Meltagun, Multi-Melta, and Combi-Flamer (5 more pts)? The only way to get the 15 pts for the second layout (Meltagun, Multi-Melta, and Combi-Flamer) is to drop extra armor on Land Raider....

***Is the extra armor on the Land Raider necessary? Seems like a good purchase to me since the cost / total cost of vehicle isn't much as compared with Rhino. I'd think the LR's cargo is so important that you'd want it to always be moving.

Overall, the Land Raider and Vindicator go together. Rhinos and Land Speeders could as well or the Speeders could hang back. Dreads drop down as necessary. Vulkan + 5 TH/SS termis should be able to handle most big nasty melee squads out there I would hope.

hoya4life3381 wrote:*Which Land Raider model should I take? Although the Redeemer seems fluffy, I don't think its flame cannons get the boost from Vulkan (Multi-Melta does). I'm thinking the standard Land Raider with Lascannons would be good for early game shooting against transports and some longer range firepower that my army doesn't have.

The flame cannons don't get the boost. Personally I'd either go for the normal, with it's long range anti-tank, or the one with the hurricane bolters because with a multi-melta, storm bolter and the bolters it can move 12" then melta a tank while putting out 14 shots into a massive unit that the termies then charge. Perhaps try both and see which one you prefer.

hoya4life3381 wrote:**How are my tactical squad loadouts? Which load out is better Flamer, Multi-Melta, and Combi-Melta vs. Meltagun, Multi-Melta, and Combi-Flamer (5 more pts)? The only way to get the 15 pts for the second layout (Meltagun, Multi-Melta, and Combi-Flamer) is to drop extra armor on Land Raider....

I'd be tempted to drop the power fists. They're 25pts each (I think), and won't do much in a tactical squad. Also, I'd suggest having some squads as dedicated anti-tank with meltas and others as more anti-inf, with flamers (but still possibly multi-meltas). Spare points could go towards melta bombs?

hoya4life3381 wrote:***Is the extra armor on the Land Raider necessary? Seems like a good purchase to me since the cost / total cost of vehicle isn't much as compared with Rhino. I'd think the LR's cargo is so important that you'd want it to always be moving.

Generally, If it's going to be used as a transport then get it, if it's purely a gun platform only get it if you have the points and they wouldn't be better going somewhere else.

hoya4life3381 wrote:Overall, the Land Raider and Vindicator go together. Rhinos and Land Speeders could as well or the Speeders could hang back. Dreads drop down as necessary. Vulkan + 5 TH/SS termis should be able to handle most big nasty melee squads out there I would hope.

Overall, good battle plan. However, I would suggest that you consider attack bikes rather than land speeders. They can have a multi-melta each (so if you make your tactical squads better at anti-infantry then this isn't an issue) and they're cheaper and generally more survivable. You would be surprised how much better T5 W2 is than AV10 all round.

I think I'm going to go with the LRC Crusader w/Extra Armor and Multi-Melta since there's just so much moving firepower than the other LR.

Good point on dropping the Powerfists to save points. Those 60 pts really are a lot.

in your experience, which weapon is used more than once more commonly: flamer or melta?

I don't picture the flamer being able to be used multiple times for some reason. Or are you suggesting going with Flamer and Combi-Flamer?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
This is the 1500 pt army I came up with to learn from:

Vulkan - 190
5 Assault Termis/TH and SSH - 200
Land Raider Crusader w/Extra Armor and Multi-Melta - 275

3 Tactical Squads w/Flamer, Multi-Melta, and Combi-Weapon (Either Melta or Flamer) in Rhino - 215*3 = 645

Landspeeder w/Multi-Melta and Heavy Flamer - 70

Predator w/Autocannon and Lascannon Sponsons - 120

Total: 1500

While the LRC, Termis, and Vulkan are definitely expensive at this points level, they are too much fun and I want to benefit from all the master-craft love. However, I still have 30 marines so that's a lot of men to counter-balance the more expensive models.

My tactical squads can have a combi-melta or combi-flamer depending on need. Combi-meltas would give me most versatility, but dual rerolling flamers is potentially very nasty as well. Probably a mix of both.

The single Predator is my anti-vehicle firebase and the Land Speeder can deep strike down against a heavy tank.

hoya4life3381 wrote:in your experience, which weapon is used more than once more commonly: flamer or melta?
I don't picture the flamer being able to be used multiple times for some reason. Or are you suggesting going with Flamer and Combi-Flamer?

It depends on what army you're facing, quite frankly. Normally I face tank-heavy armies, so would suggest the melta. Also, you're likely to be assaulted after using a flamer, although if you focus your fire this shouldn't happen. I'd say have two squads of melta and combi-melta, then one squad of flamer and combi-flamer for large numbers of troops, such as orks.

hoya4life3381 wrote:Land Raider Crusader w/Extra Armor and Multi-Melta - 275

A storm bolter would be nice, but only if you have points spare.

hoya4life3381 wrote:3 Tactical Squads w/Flamer, Multi-Melta, and Combi-Weapon (Either Melta or Flamer) in Rhino - 215*3 = 645

As I said, perhaps have 2 squads of dedicated melta and one squad with multi-melta, flamer and combi-flamer. Only do this if you have the points, though. Also, extra armor comes in useful.

hoya4life3381 wrote:Landspeeder w/Multi-Melta and Heavy Flamer - 70

Predator w/Autocannon and Lascannon Sponsons - 120

I don't see the Land Speeder doing too much without any friends: It looks like something that would pop down, singe a few people or perhaps pop a tank, then get blown to shreds. It could work, but perhaps use something else instead? Also, the predator wants a TL lascannon. The autocannon is worse than the TL lascannon at almost anything, and far worse against heavy tanks (which is probably one of the things the predator will be aiming at). Try to find the points somewhere, even if it means getting rid of the land speeder and not putting anything in its place.

hoya4life3381 wrote:While the LRC, Termis, and Vulkan are definitely expensive at this points level, they are too much fun and I want to benefit from all the master-craft love. However, I still have 30 marines so that's a lot of men to counter-balance the more expensive models.

I wouldn't be too worried about the points cost of the massive unit. It can take out most things on the board, as well as being able to destroy 3 infantry squads and a tank in one turn: the LRC, Termies and Vulkan each go after their own infantry squad, while the MM shoots at a tank thanks to POTMS.
The 30 marines want to get into cover fairly soon after getting out of their transports. You'd be surprised at the amount of AP2 and 3 weaponry that an enemy can bring to bear.

Still, it's a good list.

p_gray99 wrote:

hoya4life3381 wrote:Predator w/Autocannon and Lascannon Sponsons - 120

[T]he predator wants a TL lascannon. The autocannon is worse than the TL lascannon at almost anything, and far worse against heavy tanks (which is probably one of the things the predator will be aiming at). Try to find the points somewhere, even if it means getting rid of the land speeder and not putting anything in its place.

But it is super expensive. This is argumentative at best.

Deuce11 wrote:

p_gray99 wrote:

hoya4life3381 wrote:Predator w/Autocannon and Lascannon Sponsons - 120

[T]he predator wants a TL lascannon. The autocannon is worse than the TL lascannon at almost anything, and far worse against heavy tanks (which is probably one of the things the predator will be aiming at). Try to find the points somewhere, even if it means getting rid of the land speeder and not putting anything in its place.

But it is super expensive. This is argumentative at best.

True. Perhaps invest in some more melta-related anti-tank. It's just that I never like seeing an autocannon sitting there, doing very little.

I feel you miss out with lacking a long range option. It is usually fine to just have a bunch of short range weapons but sometimes you can not wait to get close or indeed do not want to get close.

Most people dislike having an even number of drop pods.

Then the powerfists are really important. If you get stuck in combat then your squad justs dies. You get charged by anything relative light like another tactical squad with a powerfist then you are stuck. The worse combo would be for you to try to melt a dread(i.e. within 6'') then he will charge you(maybe shooting a big enough whole in your rhino if needs be) and your squad will just die.

I like the autocannon pred if i'm going to take multiple preds since saving the twinlascannon upgrade twice is a lot. You spamming at that point so more is better. However, i don't think 2 preds makes as much sense at this level with my force getting so many benefits from close in weapons. I just need one long range threat to keep my opponent's honest and the full lascannon solo pred makes sense.

Good points on lack of powerfists in tacs means only my termis and Vulkan can do anything in melee. I think I will put the drop dreadnought back in because it adds so much to the list. He adds melee power, multimelta, and heavy flamer right where you need it.

Finally, I'll take two attack bikes with multimeltas to support my tacs. They should be able to tuck behind all the vehicles or turbo together up a flank.

Updated list is:

Vulkan He'stan - 190
5 Assault Termis with TH/SS -200
Land Raider Crusader w/Multimelta and Extra Armour - 275

Dreadnought w/Multimelta and Heavy Flamer in Drop Pod - 150

2 Tactical Squads with Meltagun, Multimelta, Combi-flamer, and Rhino - 220 * 2 = 440

Attack Bike - 50
Attack Bike - 50

Predator w/Twin-las and las sponsons - 145

Total: 1500

I now have more multis, more long range firepower, and a drop dread. Does the list have enough anti-horde now that I swapped to combi-flamers?

hoya4life3381 wrote:I now have more multis, more long range firepower, and a drop dread. Does the list have enough anti-horde now that I swapped to combi-flamers?

I barely ever face a horde army, but I think it should be fine. I would suggest making sergeant models with combi-meltas and combi-flamers, and just using whichever would be more useful in each battle. I doubt anyone would have a problem with this unless you're in a tournament.

Overall, do you like the list better? I think it has a nice balance of troops, hard hitting melee, anti-troop, and some anti-vehicle shooting.

I think the Attack Bikes add a lot to the list. The re-roll multimeltas on them is amazing. With their higher accuracy, I can take the 2 and not be forced to take a full compliment of 3.

It's definitely better. Make sure the attack bikes are in separate squads, so you can take out 2 vehicles in one go. Although it may still be slightly lacking in anti-infantry, there's really very little you can do to have an army good at both anti-tank and anti-horde.

Personally I'd change the land raider to a redeemer with multi melta and extra armour. Saves 10 pts and a str6 ap3 flamer is made of win