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My browser isn't messed up. I only quoted the part that was worth responding to.

It didn't fall me at all - despite your repeated (incorrect) assertions I'm not trolling nor disagree with many of your tactics. I just can't stand you you present things as fact that are completely incorrect.

Tyrants have the ability to modify reserve rolls, but nothing to do with stealing initiative. And yes, older codexes had varying str weapons but building tactics off of old codexes is probably a bad idea, agreed?

I could try and clean up this thread. Or I could just lock it and start indiscriminatingly suspending people who are posting things that are not on topic, IN SPITE OF REPEATED WARNINGS.

Middle ground option for now. Any posts past this one that I deem to be off-topic in any way, shape, or form, even in part, get the user suspended.

So, to summarize, the things that make CC units effective are:

1) Speed. The less turns you spend faffing around, the better.

2) Durability. Less deaths = more killy.

3) Hiding behind terrain. Terrain = +Durability, -Speed.

4) Multiple threats. Like with the Daemon's flying circus, the more scary things you've got on the field, the harder it will be for your opponent to get them killed.

5) Redundancy. Key trait of Nids and Orks. Simply bring more expendable choppy units then the enemy has guns.

 Carnage43 wrote:

knas ser wrote:

 StarTrotter wrote:
Onto another note, my favorite army is daemons and I'm building a Tzeentch Khorne combo.

Don't those two hate each other? I though Tzeentch was the one thing Khorne loathed above anything else. Or has the fluff changed since my day?

Khorne/Slaanesh
Nurgle/Tzeench

Are your demon hatreds.

I don't know. I've been around since the days of Kaleb Dark when there was Malaal as one of the Chaos gods as well. I've been out of it a bit but it was - I'm pretty sure Khorne/Tzeentch and Slaanesh/Nurgle.

Khorne despised sorcery and trickery which was Tzeentch's gig. Slaanesh and Nurgle as embodiments of hedonism and despair, feeling and death, repectively, were also opposed. And then tnere was Malaal who was all against him and him against all, but he has all but vanished from the pantheon.

Edit: Just reached the mod warning. The above might count as off-topic, but it was really just a reply to the interesting side-discussion about Chaos allegiances, not part of the trolling thing that's going on. If it's a problem, please just delete it if needed.

The way I see it:

- Khorne - physical strength
- Tzeentch - mental strength
- Nurgle - physical weakness
- Slannesh - mental weakness

Therefore those following the god of physical strength hate the followers of the god of mental weakness, and vice versa.

Khorne followers despise Tzeentch cultists for they path they choose, but can still respect them as strong allies. but Slannesh is the utter antithesis of everything they stand for.

According to the codex:
Khorne daemons have Hatred: Slaanesh
Tzeentch daemons have Hatred: Nurgle
Nurgle daemons have Hatred: Tzeentch
Slaanesh daemons have Hatred: Khorne.

To continue my original/ongoing line of reasoning...

1) Speed. The less turns you spend faffing around, the better.

2) Durability. Less deaths = more killy.

3) Hiding behind terrain. Terrain = +Durability, -Speed.

4) Multiple threats. Like with the Daemon's flying circus, the more scary things you've got on the field, the harder it will be for your opponent to get them killed.

5) Redundancy. Key trait of Nids and Orks. Simply bring more expendable choppy units then the enemy has guns.

These are a good start. However, these alone will not "do it". I feel that there are strategie and tactics (actions made by the player) which can improve them even further. Yes, I know some of them may seem like common sense but they still need to be pointed out.
1. table set up. This is a part of the game that can greatly affect who wins or loses a game. It can range from placing a huge los blocking rock outcropping in front of an ADL gun or stringing los blocking buildings or rocks (or terrain which would partially block los to provide some sort of cover for an advance.
2. Use of some units to provide covering fire. I'll use the razorback for this, If I have a razorback sitting behind my ADL in front of an open space in front of the opponat's battle line, it may serve as a deterrent for the opponent to keep them from moving their units around to get better shots at my incoming squads. or at least make it harder for them.
3.Soften them up. I found that taking a manticore allowed me to softem up, enemies that were hid out of my los so that they were weakened enough for my shunting interceptors and dreadknights.
4."grand strategies. I'm a lil short on these but the denied flank I have seen work to great effect through firsthand use. It actually works a lil better now than in earlier editions if you get turn 2.
5.not only having multiple threats on the table but having those threas all be a threat at once forcing an opponent to kill them all at once. stringing them out so that they can be neutralized individually, weakens their effectiveness.
6. learning from others. Watch other players and keep an eye on what works for them. this is how I learned the slingshot to get chaos lords into combat unmolested.