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Made in de
Bush? No, Eldar Ranger





 NAVARRO wrote:
 Ghaz wrote:
 NAVARRO wrote:
The more I see it the less I like it.

I mean they seem to behave SO drastically different. Some as opaque as it can get while others so thin with minimal coverage.

This is why these reviews are so important, I would never spend the cash on expensive paints just to figure out the coverage.

Should they not behave similarly? They dont look like they are part of the same subrange at all.

It's not like the first wave of Contrast paints have the same coverage. Compare Magos Purple and Aethermatic Blue and Shyish Purple and Cygor Brown and you'll see a wide range of coverage as well.



Looks like the case but the fact the range is expanding more and more I think that perpetuating this "issue" will only IMO increase the confusion.
Whey you buy a layer a base or a ink you expected them to have differences in therms of cover too due to pigments but never so wildly different as contrasts.
On the last video even the YouTuber said that feels some should be technicals instead of contrasts etc.

When I pick a colour from the shelve I go by range and colour. I cant do that effectively with contrasts, I pick a colour but I dont know if its translucid or opaque. Makes it hard for me to choose a contrast. See my point? The name of the subrange does not actually help.

For the expensive price of the pots im not willing to experiment and try myself either.


You have to understand that Contrast is not opaque. By its nature it's a transparent/translucid paint. It's that some colours have a darker/stronger dying effect and some have a more transparent/lighter effect. I understand that this might be confusing and requires some experimentation, but what's the alternative? You want to have lighter and darker colours in the range, otherwise you would end up with a range of only mid-tones.

And from my experience with the new Contrast paints (GW sent them to me already, my review will be out on Saturday), it's not that the mentioned "flat" colours produce no highlights or shadows at all, they're just veeery subtle. I agree a different label or naming convention might have been helpful, maybe something like heavy glazes or Citadel One Coat.

But I think these new type of Contrast paints are actually my favourite of the new bunch, because they are so vibrant and dry so smooth, and I tend to add a highlight or two anyways. With the three new yellows you can have a pretty smooth coat of yellow with a single application, how great is that?

 
   
Made in gb
Fanatic with Madcap Mushrooms







 stahly wrote:
 NAVARRO wrote:
 Ghaz wrote:
 NAVARRO wrote:
The more I see it the less I like it.

I mean they seem to behave SO drastically different. Some as opaque as it can get while others so thin with minimal coverage.

This is why these reviews are so important, I would never spend the cash on expensive paints just to figure out the coverage.

Should they not behave similarly? They dont look like they are part of the same subrange at all.

It's not like the first wave of Contrast paints have the same coverage. Compare Magos Purple and Aethermatic Blue and Shyish Purple and Cygor Brown and you'll see a wide range of coverage as well.



Looks like the case but the fact the range is expanding more and more I think that perpetuating this "issue" will only IMO increase the confusion.
Whey you buy a layer a base or a ink you expected them to have differences in therms of cover too due to pigments but never so wildly different as contrasts.
On the last video even the YouTuber said that feels some should be technicals instead of contrasts etc.

When I pick a colour from the shelve I go by range and colour. I cant do that effectively with contrasts, I pick a colour but I dont know if its translucid or opaque. Makes it hard for me to choose a contrast. See my point? The name of the subrange does not actually help.

For the expensive price of the pots im not willing to experiment and try myself either.


You have to understand that Contrast is not opaque. By its nature it's a transparent/translucid paint. It's that some colours have a darker/stronger dying effect and some have a more transparent/lighter effect. I understand that this might be confusing and requires some experimentation, but what's the alternative? You want to have lighter and darker colours in the range, otherwise you would end up with a range of only mid-tones.

And from my experience with the new Contrast paints (GW sent them to me already, my review will be out on Saturday), it's not that the mentioned "flat" colours produce no highlights or shadows at all, they're just veeery subtle. I agree a different label or naming convention might have been helpful, maybe something like heavy glazes or Citadel One Coat.

But I think these new type of Contrast paints are actually my favourite of the new bunch, because they are so vibrant and dry so smooth, and I tend to add a highlight or two anyways. With the three new yellows you can have a pretty smooth coat of yellow with a single application, how great is that?


Sure I agree they should have different tones from light to dark on the contrast range, but some show through almost all of the white primer while others almost totally cover it, and Im not sure what the alternative would be in therms of labelling like you say.
Maybe include on the pots some pigment strength/ intensity bars, much like, say spicy food labels with the peppers logos. That would help.

Im coming from a customer point of view reading the sales pitch " contrast paints that colour, shade and highlight your minis easy" and we know now that depending on bottles some are visibly contrast while others the "flats" not so much. I cannot intuitively shop contrasts like I do most other ranges unfortunately. Well thats why your and other reviews are so helpful to me. I just need to memorise the funny names so I dont forget what I want XD
Without reviews I would be blind as bat... 100% trial and error.

As for the yellows I like the one with red shadows pools the most, that looks useful.


   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




Am I right that they only added 2 new purples and they both have the same flaws as the previous 2? (One being far too dark and the other being far too thin) So still no normal purple contrast that actually has some coverage without being essentially squid ink?
   
Made in us
Lieutenant General





Florence, KY

BigOscar wrote:
Am I right that they only added 2 new purples and they both have the same flaws as the previous 2? (One being far too dark and the other being far too thin) So still no normal purple contrast that actually has some coverage without being essentially squid ink?

No. Luxion Purple looks like it's in the middle of the pack in terms of coverage.

[Thumb - Luxion Purple.jpg]
Luxion Purple


'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents
cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable
defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'

- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty
Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




 Ghaz wrote:
BigOscar wrote:
Am I right that they only added 2 new purples and they both have the same flaws as the previous 2? (One being far too dark and the other being far too thin) So still no normal purple contrast that actually has some coverage without being essentially squid ink?

No. Luxion Purple looks like it's in the middle of the pack in terms of coverage.


Myst have missed that one in the couple of videos I watched, cheers.
Edit- in fact I didn't, but the video I watched had that down as incredibly dark. Not sure why it isn't in that picture. (They did try watering it down and it wasn't so bad, but still not just a regular contrast colour)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/06/28 14:23:01


 
   
Made in us
Lieutenant General





Florence, KY

BigOscar wrote:
 Ghaz wrote:
BigOscar wrote:
Am I right that they only added 2 new purples and they both have the same flaws as the previous 2? (One being far too dark and the other being far too thin) So still no normal purple contrast that actually has some coverage without being essentially squid ink?

No. Luxion Purple looks like it's in the middle of the pack in terms of coverage.


Myst have missed that one in the couple of videos I watched, cheers.
Edit- in fact I didn't, but the video I watched had that down as incredibly dark. Not sure why it isn't in that picture. (They did try watering it down and it wasn't so bad, but still not just a regular contrast colour)

That is one of Juan Hidalgo's pics. You can see in any of his 'Eavy Contrast videos that he wicks away any excess pooling of of the paint instead of just letting it dry.

'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents
cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable
defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'

- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty
Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




 Ghaz wrote:
BigOscar wrote:
 Ghaz wrote:
BigOscar wrote:
Am I right that they only added 2 new purples and they both have the same flaws as the previous 2? (One being far too dark and the other being far too thin) So still no normal purple contrast that actually has some coverage without being essentially squid ink?

No. Luxion Purple looks like it's in the middle of the pack in terms of coverage.


Myst have missed that one in the couple of videos I watched, cheers.
Edit- in fact I didn't, but the video I watched had that down as incredibly dark. Not sure why it isn't in that picture. (They did try watering it down and it wasn't so bad, but still not just a regular contrast colour)

That is one of Juan Hidalgo's pics. You can see in any of his 'Eavy Contrast videos that he wicks away any excess pooling of of the paint instead of just letting it dry.

I watched the video on the page before this where they just slather it on and it looked a lot like the darkness and thickness of shyish purple. (I think the woman's exact words were "this paint is so unbelievably dark")

I want to airbrush it tbh over a xenothol to be the easy armour for 30k emperor's children and it looks a lot like it won't work for that as its just too dark and thick.(sure I could thin it, mix it with a lighter purple etc etc but you Starr to defeat the point at that stage)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/06/28 15:25:42


 
   
Made in us
Lieutenant General





Florence, KY

At the 6:40 mark:



'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents
cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable
defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'

- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty
Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




 NAVARRO wrote:
Funny that on a reviewer end of video bloopers he spilled the pot while opening it and almost spilled it twice by cleaning it. Yep truly horrible pots.

Also the comment that These are Better, well better at doing what you like them to do ( means jack to me) Or better at doing the same thing?
I mean looking at null oil, well I may want to have the darker tint overall on all mini rater than just darker recesses. Its fundamentally different.
Thats not better thats different.

For me shades are good to shade the full colour not just the recesses.


For GW, shades are for, well, shading the recesses. Watch any of the GW painting videos and they hardly ever pinwash - it's wash all over then touch up flat surfaces with the base colour. So something that flows better into the recesses is a better option for their preferred technique. And if that new Nuln Oil flows like the gloss version without being glossy it'll be brilliant for that.

For tinting entire surfaces, that's what Contrast is for. Hopefully one of the new blacks will work for darkening weapons and other such techniques. We were already seeing GW move towards this, for example a lot of more recent videos had them shading skin with diluted Guilliman Flesh, rather than Reikland Fleshshade. They may also have used it for tinting gold.

Honestly, GW must know how popular their washes are - plenty of painters use GW washes even if using other paints. I can't imagine they'd put out a few formulation of them if it was worse, or cut off part of the market. I think they are just separating out shades and contrast more.
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




Seems like I'll need to look up what's being changed and stock up

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/06/28 16:10:22


 
   
Made in au
Grizzled Space Wolves Great Wolf





 stahly wrote:
You have to understand that Contrast is not opaque. By its nature it's a transparent/translucid paint. It's that some colours have a darker/stronger dying effect and some have a more transparent/lighter effect. I understand that this might be confusing and requires some experimentation, but what's the alternative? You want to have lighter and darker colours in the range, otherwise you would end up with a range of only mid-tones.

And from my experience with the new Contrast paints (GW sent them to me already, my review will be out on Saturday), it's not that the mentioned "flat" colours produce no highlights or shadows at all, they're just veeery subtle. I agree a different label or naming convention might have been helpful, maybe something like heavy glazes or Citadel One Coat.


I think the solution is just not to have them all under the single banner of "Contrast". Either name them something different, or use what art companies have used for years and indicate on the bottle what the level of opacity is. Maybe divide them into different "levels" or "classes", 1 = light coverage, 2 = moderate coverage, 3 = heavy coverage, A = vibrant colour that doesn't really create contrast at all, B = speciality... maybe sounds confusing but I think it's less confusing than having a range of very different paints under the same banner.

To me it's a bit silly to call them all "Contrast" as that name implies the paint creates a useful level of contrast from shade to highlight, but if that's what they want to do they could still separate them out by using numbers of letters to indicate how they function.

But I think these new type of Contrast paints are actually my favourite of the new bunch, because they are so vibrant and dry so smooth, and I tend to add a highlight or two anyways. With the three new yellows you can have a pretty smooth coat of yellow with a single application, how great is that?


I'm not super excited by those paints because it's so rare that I actually want a vibrant highly saturated colour. If that's what someone wants then I'm glad it caters to them, but I can't really get myself excited when I'm struggling to think of the last time I actually wanted a super vibrant red or yellow, I almost always want a desaturated version of those colours.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/06/28 16:15:02


 
   
Made in fi
Dakka Veteran





BigOscar wrote:

I watched the video on the page before this where they just slather it on and it looked a lot like the darkness and thickness of shyish purple. (I think the woman's exact words were "this paint is so unbelievably dark")


Due to transparent nature of Contrast paints, two painters can have different end result with the same paint. Unlike opaque paints, the method of application counts with Contrast. That's why it's a good idea to treat painted samples as more of suggestions than definite guides.

One of my favourite Contrast paint examples is this piece of tissue paper where I used exactly one brushfull of Iyanden yellow to paint different coloured lines. As the amount of paint on the brush reduces, the colour becomes lighter. This is equivalent of applying a good amount of paint on a surface (top) and spreading it out thinner (bottom). This is also how I like to test new colours before applying them on a miniature.

[Thumb - IMG_20211126_215439.jpg]

   
Made in gb
Fanatic with Madcap Mushrooms







 Ghaz wrote:
BigOscar wrote:
 Ghaz wrote:
BigOscar wrote:
Am I right that they only added 2 new purples and they both have the same flaws as the previous 2? (One being far too dark and the other being far too thin) So still no normal purple contrast that actually has some coverage without being essentially squid ink?

No. Luxion Purple looks like it's in the middle of the pack in terms of coverage.


Myst have missed that one in the couple of videos I watched, cheers.
Edit- in fact I didn't, but the video I watched had that down as incredibly dark. Not sure why it isn't in that picture. (They did try watering it down and it wasn't so bad, but still not just a regular contrast colour)

That is one of Juan Hidalgo's pics. You can see in any of his 'Eavy Contrast videos that he wicks away any excess pooling of of the paint instead of just letting it dry.


Thats a good point. Juan habits of soaking the excess out of the pools will obviously create different coverage results as will the dilution of the contrast paints like on some other reviewer video.
You can probably lighten up the darker tones but I bet you are going to struggle to have a good result when darkening the lighter ones.

   
Made in us
Lieutenant General





Florence, KY



'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents
cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable
defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'

- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty
Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
 
   
Made in fi
5th God of Chaos (O'rly?)





Can't video makers stop putting self-grandiose titles like best and then put in caps like teen? Good way to appear worthless to view.

At least no "shocked" face on thumbnail...

2022 painted/bought: 497/632 
   
Made in us
Potent Grey Knight Librarian





Fort Worth, TX

tneva82 wrote:
Can't video makers stop putting self-grandiose titles like best and then put in caps like teen? Good way to appear worthless to view.

At least no "shocked" face on thumbnail...


They could do that, but then the almighty algorithm doesn't promote their videos and they don't get views.
   
Made in de
Bush? No, Eldar Ranger





Here are my thoughts on the new White Scar primer:




Sad to see Corax White spray to go away, but I've primed a few models with White Scar and it's really easy to use. White primers can be fickle, this one goes on smooth like a charm and it's hard to mess up even if you might spray on a little bit too much.

Written version of this video with comparisons to other GW primers over on my website: https://taleofpainters.com/2022/06/first-impression-white-scar-spray-primer-replacing-corax-white/

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/06/29 17:15:52


 
   
Made in us
Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor






Gathering the Informations.

What was the humidity like when you were spraying?
   
Made in de
Bush? No, Eldar Ranger





 Kanluwen wrote:
What was the humidity like when you were spraying?


I do my spraying indoors at a well ventilated place, so pretty normal north European weather I'd say.

 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Myrtle Creek, OR

My favorite is the reviewer (in the loosest interpretation of the term) who always uses gloom, doom and shock thumbnails for videos that are just the tiniest bit shy of being full blown and gushing adverts.

Thread Slayer 
   
Made in si
Ravenous Beast Form







 privateer4hire wrote:
My favorite is the reviewer (in the loosest interpretation of the term) who always uses gloom, doom and shock thumbnails for videos that are just the tiniest bit shy of being full blown and gushing adverts.


Do you have any idea how little that narrows it down?

Posters on ignore list: 35

40k Potica Edition - 40k patch with reactions, suppression and all that good stuff. Feedback thread here.

Gangs of Nu Ork - Necromunda / Gorkamorka expansion supporting all faction. Feedback thread here
   
Made in ca
Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion





 lord_blackfang wrote:
 privateer4hire wrote:
My favorite is the reviewer (in the loosest interpretation of the term) who always uses gloom, doom and shock thumbnails for videos that are just the tiniest bit shy of being full blown and gushing adverts.


Do you have any idea how little that narrows it down?


.. it doesn't

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Myrtle Creek, OR

My intent exactly

Thread Slayer 
   
Made in us
Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor






Gathering the Informations.

 stahly wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
What was the humidity like when you were spraying?


I do my spraying indoors at a well ventilated place, so pretty normal north European weather I'd say.

Well, that doesn't help me figure this out at all!

Even well-ventilated indoors, I'm still finding humidity to be the #1 problem on my end for spraying.
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block





@Kanluwen, maybe you could try moisture absorber packs? They're relatively cheap and they might work to keep whatever space you use dry.

As for the new paints, I think the new reds, oranges and yellows are great and will probably finally get me to try contrast paints. I imagine I could get good results by mixing my own paint with artist inks, but that is more hassle than I'm willing to do right now in my hobbying.
   
Made in us
Nihilistic Necron Lord






Those new flat contrasts have nice color, but I hate that they’re labeling them as contrast with nothing on the pot to distinguish them from all the other contrasts that auto shade. Did they remove the technical line or why weren’t they added to that?

 
   
Made in de
Bush? No, Eldar Ranger





 AduroT wrote:
Those new flat contrasts have nice color, but I hate that they’re labeling them as contrast with nothing on the pot to distinguish them from all the other contrasts that auto shade. Did they remove the technical line or why weren’t they added to that?


Good question. Maybe they're testing the waters, just like former Technical paints Hexwraith Flame and Nighthaunt Gloom were the testbeds for the Contrast formula?

Those more flat colours quickly became some of my favourite paints from the new bunch of colours. They're really fantastic on less textured details such as power armour and robes because of their smoothness. I want a full range of them now

 
   
Made in us
Nihilistic Necron Lord






As the guy all my coworkers at the flgs point to when someone has questions about paint, I just hate that it’s an extra asterisk I will have to remember to point out when I explain what all the different paints are and do.

 
   
Made in gb
Fanatic with Madcap Mushrooms







 AduroT wrote:
As the guy all my coworkers at the flgs point to when someone has questions about paint, I just hate that it’s an extra asterisk I will have to remember to point out when I explain what all the different paints are and do.


Maybe paint some bases with all the contrasts and stick them to a card like a colour chart. GW stores have that and seems to be quite useful to figure out what kind of contrast you will get from the pot. Not ideal but just an idea for your store. Would save you memorising every colour name and what it actually does.

   
Made in us
Lieutenant General





Florence, KY

 AduroT wrote:
Those new flat contrasts have nice color, but I hate that they’re labeling them as contrast with nothing on the pot to distinguish them from all the other contrasts that auto shade. Did they remove the technical line or why weren’t they added to that?

The Technical paints, as noted on the GW web store, includes the mediums, the varnishes, the texture paints, the gemstone paints, Nihilakh Oxide, Blood for the Blood God and Nurgle's Rot. There are Contrast paints from the first release that didn't have a lot of contrast (e.g., Cygor Brown). If they're too strong out of the pot for you, then thin them with Contrast medium, but I'm glad that we're given the opportunity to use them straight from the pot at full strength if we want to.

'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents
cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable
defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'

- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty
Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
 
   
 
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