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Hey all,

Whilst I know this concept has been discussed (and tried) numerous times before I seem to keep getting an 'itch' that makes me want to build a competitive tournament scout force. This is list is very new, and unfinished but I am keen to get some discussion to help me build the ideas. I want to take around a fortnight to nut out the list then I can order and begin putting it together.

Aiming for a 1500pt list, but will need to expand for later comps.

Where I need help -

I am currently at 1305 points - there isn't enough to add much, but plenty to tweak.
I am thinking of adding a pred or attack bikes - really depends what people see as the threat (heavy inf, light inf or armour)
Do I need to alter my HQ set-up?
Do I need another unit to support my bikes, or do I accept that after the second turn they simply do what ever they can left?
More scouts? - no room for more snipers, could look at more CC Scouts?

HQ
Korsarro Khan - 205
mounted on Moondrakkan

- This will be the first unit I place on the board and therefore will attract alot of attention from my opponents major units. I am concerned by his point cost, but see his strength as the ability to bolster my bike squad (possibly on a first turn charge when needed)

Elites
Techmarine - 90
Servitor Unit with Plasma Cannon

- The techmarine will bolster a snipers position to give them enhanced cover saves. I aren't convinced on the servitor, but I can't think of what to do with the Techmarine other than hang out at the back. The Plasma Cannon would be more for fun than anything. Great for targeting any deep striking termi's that wish to remove my snipers.

Troops

10 x Scouts - 200
- 8 x sniper rifles and 1 x rocket launcher
- Telion

10 x Scouts - 150
- 5 x shotguns
- 5 x combat blades
- 1 x Multi-Melta

10 x Scouts - 160
- 8 x bolters 1 x Heavy Bolter
- 1 x Multi-Plasma

10 x Scouts - 165
- 8 x combat blades
- 1 x powerfist

- Snipers - pretty standard, will combat squad and deploy in my deployment area. Try and pin more than actually destroy any unit - these are a likely target for deep striking units.
- Shotguns - go in the storm - more a mobile reserve than anything set in stone.
- Bolters - Hide in terrain and 'ambush' or take on injured squads. They can be used to take objectives late
- Combat - These are a pretty flexible bunch. I can place them where I want to lure or deny?

Fast Attack
Land Speeder Storm - 60
- Heavy Flamer

10 x Scout Bikers - 270
- 3 x Grenade Launchers
- Cluster Mines
- Power Weapon and Melta-Bombs

- Storm with a flamer seems to be a good option as a mobile reserve. I have heard the multi-melta is very effective, but I need the ability to clear enemies holding objectives.
- The bikes are a great unit for the cost.. I almost want more.... almost. I can either combat squad them and use on as a suicide unit or keep them together and form a 'bridge' back to my deployment zone to pick up Khan for a first turn assault (whilst he won't attack, he will be protected from shooting and hand over his benefits to the squad).

hey,

so you've got 195 points to play with? I'm just going to say now that the 'regular' points cost for tourneys is 1750 but OK for 1500 points I'd stick another storm in there with a multi melta, split your CCW scouts into two and put them in the storms, give each serge a PF and combi-melta, do remember storms can scout first turn, so if you have first turn you boost 24" forward, your now in their face with 3 meltas, 2 power fists and a heavy flamer.

Now if this is objectives your right there to move to their objective and take with both units or 1 if needed or kill points you can just move behind their tanks/ infantry and blast the hell out of them, while they are trying to kill the scouts (which isn't hard) the rest of your army will be racing forward and killing as they go.

If you pressure your opponent by getting up in his face he has a larger chance to make the wrong choice.

With regards to khan why him? He is not a bonus your army in much way, if you want a guy on a bike just go for a captain on bike, a captain would be better because you can chose what weapons to give him, what i'd go for is a captain on bike with storm shield and relic blade - 185 this gives you 20 points to play with on top of our previous 195 (215) minus the cost of the combi-meltas, power fist and LSS leaves us 95.

Now, instead of a tech marine why not go for the MOTF w/ convertion beamer for 30 points more - stick him at the edge of the board blasting peeps with it. were now down to 65 which conveniently is enough for another LSS with heavy flamer with 5 more bolter or CCW or shotguns in. since you've already paid for a combi-plasma with the bolters go with 5 in the storm and the others just use as a decoy of just with at the back with the snipers firing the heavy bolter.

5 points left to give melta bombs to your captain

Apart from that i like your list, it's good

Hope this helped,

- madman12367

Khan is a great if you give him his cc bike command squad. If you want a techmarine give a bike and put him here, not the best use of points but probably best use of him in the list.

Why do you want to lose combat tactics, to give literately three models outflank(all your others already have that skill)?

I like the look of scout bikes, I would try to include loads of them. I haven't played with them so this is just a feeling

@Madman - good points. I do have a few Q's back to you.

Why a combi-melta and a powerfist? I figure that is a point sink into something that will probs do the same job. Is it incase the veh isn't destroyed?

I can't have as many storms are you are saying, as I have the bikes. I was pondering have Land Speed Sqn in the list? Another option is attack bikes. I figure either of these in the list still gives it a scouty theme (I can model scouts into them).

This advantage Khan give me is that I get furious charge and hit and run on my bikes - first turn charge with these guys is pretty impressive for the points cost.

I toyed with MOTF instead of the techmarine and simply didn't go with him to keep the points low - The conversion beamer could be fun - I like the servitor though (lil cutie).

@ MFletch - What advantage do I have to putting the tech marine on a bike? I was thinking of just keeping him with my snipers and blasting away with the servitor.

The bikes have good stats for the cost.

How does Khan get first turn assault?

Assuming you have Khan and you really want a techmarine. You will have Khan charge units, the techmarine can join and have hit and run and furious charge making him ok.
I would go for neither, combat tactics is great.

Step 1 - Deploy Khan in your deployment zone
Step 2 - Deploy bikes (w/infiltrate) 18" from enemy, along line from Khan to enemy
Step 3 - make a line with bikes from 14" from Khan to enemy, with as many bikes as can be in assault range of enemy.
Step 4 - Move Khan towards unit, and have him run during the shooting phase.
Step 5 - Declare a charge, voila.

Whilst Khan will not be able to participate in the combat (too far away), he will be able to lend his benefits to the squad. He can then consolidate towards the enemy.

This move will obviously gain your opponents attention right from the start, as something this crazy can't be left un-checked.

With hit-and-run he will also be able to bounce around your opponents back lines for the first three turns. Whilst it may seem cheesy, it is also a reasonable scouty tactic.

of course, I could do the same thing with another HQ choice on a bike - but don't know what would be the best option?

More than 18'' so not 18''. Also they enemy can deploy 1/16'' away from their line.
The unit will not gain fleet/run, whilst Khan can not join them if has ran.

So yes cheesey. Also kinda doable if they deploy behind cover within 12'' but no not really.

Also I would concerns that a designated cc squad only has 6 powerweapon attacks(9 normal) yet costs a bomb. This will cause an issue as you have to choose when to hit and run. Either you leave yourself open to a counter assault else being shot down.
Also I have played around with Khan you can not rely on the hit and run.

you are right. Good points, I'm yet to actually put it into practice (its all been on a white board so far).

As long as he reaches them with his 12" move (14" to make coherency) then I can assault.

Another thought, will this combat then block line of sight too?

Its a big points sink - but not as big as some I've seen, but it has the wounds to withstand combat for a turn or two. it doesn't have the killing power, power weapons bring but if I hit-and-run every enemies turn they can't counter charge me. I like that it ties up the enemy dealing with it for up to three turns whilst I take objectives and move my relatively slow scouts around the board.

Isn't a 14" move for coherancy cheating?

There are a couple of problems:

1- You cannot turbo-boost in scout move. So LSS will not guarantee a 1st turn assault.
2- IC (without Infiltrate) joining a squad will make that squad loses Infiltrate. Thus, step 3 will NOT work. If you want Step 3 to work, Khan will have to stand separately and join in later. But if you do this, when an IC joined a unit, that unit counted as moved so no charging shennanigan will work.

Your list need a MoTF with Conversion Beamer and more anti-vehicle. I can already see one/two Storm Ravens full of assault squad unloading next to your scouts and just rip them apart.

I will re-look at the list in regards to armour.

I'm moving house and without a rule book, so will have to revisit if the plan is feasible. I don't want people to think it is my lists crux, it is an option.

I want my list to be a re-active list that is capable of responding to how my opponent sets-up. Alot of games are won early one, minus the mistakes.

Eagle

< Taken by the void dragon. >

Add 25 pts to techmarine and you get a TFC, which is awesome if fragile.

Just having assaulty scouts able to hit from flanks will mess many opponents strategies, so you dont need to depend on 1st turn assault, your opponent will already be handicaping himself.

leohart wrote:There are a couple of problems:

1- You cannot turbo-boost in scout move. So LSS will not guarantee a 1st turn assault.
2- IC (without Infiltrate) joining a squad will make that squad loses Infiltrate. Thus, step 3 will NOT work. If you want Step 3 to work, Khan will have to stand separately and join in later. But if you do this, when an IC joined a unit, that unit counted as moved so no charging shennanigan will work.

Your list need a MoTF with Conversion Beamer and more anti-vehicle. I can already see one/two Storm Ravens full of assault squad unloading next to your scouts and just rip them apart.

Hi.
I think you are wrong.

1.You can move flat out(Skimmers) and turbo boost(Bikes) in your scout move, you even get the cover save in the first round.(See FAQ)
http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1830600a_40k_Rulebook_version_1_4.pdf
2.See Rulebook page 48.
"If an independent character moves and joins or leaves a unit that did not move, the character counts as having moved in the ensuing shooting phase, but the unit does not."


Best regards
Robin

IIRC bikes get the cover save and skimmers do not but you can turboboost/flat out in the scout phase. I believe the difference is in the wording as a flat out save is only gained when you've moved at speed in the previous turn (and scout phase doesn't count as a turn), while turboboost generates a cover save in the opponents' next shooting phase, which is different.
You could even argue a cover save for bikers who:
-turboboosted in scout phase
-moved normally in movement
-assaulted in assault phase
-are out of combat in the opponents' next shooting phase

Correct me if I'm wrong.

Personally I'd be tempted to just take some better units like tactical squads and sternguard and model them as scouts. A full scout force is tricky because scouts suck and you can only take so many bikers.

Ravenwing bikes can not turbo on their scout move.
I didn't realise scout bikes have scouts skill
The issue I have seen with the storm is that you can not guarantee what unit you can assault, as you need something a bit soft for it to work.

If you wait for the enemies turn to hit and run, then in their turn they can charge your squad with their assault termies or whatever cc unit they have. That is the counter charge I was mentioning.

Also why do people confuse turbo boost and flat out? They are just words after all, it would be like using cruise speed instead of walk for infantry though I suppose people know what you mean.