Author |
Message |
 |
|
 |
Advert
|
Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
- No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
- Times and dates in your local timezone.
- Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
- Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
- Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now. |
|
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/01/03 02:03:47
Subject: Tall based skimmers, models underneath and immobilized
|
 |
Blackclad Wayfarer
From England. Living in Shanghai
|
So this came up in a game yesterday and my opponent and I were unsure how to resolve it. I also tried to use the search function and couldn't find an appropriate answer.
I was using a vendetta and had disembarked some infantry under it. Now in my opponents turn he immobilized it. The rules say I should remove it from its base but to do so would place it on top of my own models. What is the correct way to resolve this?
Thanks in advance
|
Looking for games in Shanghai? Send a PM |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/01/03 02:09:35
Subject: Tall based skimmers, models underneath and immobilized
|
 |
Decrepit Dakkanaut
|
You aren't allowed to place models directly beneath a skimmer in the first place, so they shouldn't have been there to start with.
|
Mandorallen turned back toward the insolently sneering baron. 'My Lord,' The great knight said distantly, 'I find thy face apelike and thy form misshapen. Thy beard, moreover, is an offence against decency, resembling more closely the scabrous fur which doth decorate the hinder portion of a mongrel dog than a proper adornment for a human face. Is it possibly that thy mother, seized by some wild lechery, did dally at some time past with a randy goat?' - Mimbrate Knight Protector Mandorallen.
Excerpt from "Seeress of Kell", Book Five of The Malloreon series by David Eddings.
My deviantART Profile - Pay No Attention To The Man Behind The Madness
"You need not fear us, unless you are a dark heart, a vile one who preys on the innocent; I promise, you can’t hide forever in the empty darkness, for we will hunt you down like the animals you are, and pull you into the very bowels of hell." Iron - Within Temptation |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/01/03 02:16:29
Subject: Tall based skimmers, models underneath and immobilized
|
 |
Captain of the Forlorn Hope
|
Avatar 720 wrote:You aren't allowed to place models directly beneath a skimmer in the first place, so they shouldn't have been there to start with. That is not true at all. The only requirements are that you need to stay 1 inch away from the Hull and the Base of an enemy skimmer. You can be under a friendly skimmer, and sometimes must be if you are disembarking from the skimmer. Just remember your models have to fit there. (With a vendetta you will almost always have to disembark some infantry directly below the vendetta, as there is only so much room within 2 inches of its base). As for your question OP, they really do not explain what to do in that situation. Since the wreck now counts as difficult and dangerous terrain, you could go about it one of several ways. #1: Use MWS for the skimmer and place it where it needs to be when firing at the units that are under it. #2: Place it on the ground and place the units that are under it, on top of it in the exact locations they were at when they were on the ground. #3: Leave the skimmer on its stand and drop it to the ground once all models get clear of its footprint. #4: Leave the skimmer on its stand. #5: Something else that works for your group.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/01/03 02:18:09
"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.
I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!
We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/01/03 02:23:26
Subject: Tall based skimmers, models underneath and immobilized
|
 |
Blackclad Wayfarer
From England. Living in Shanghai
|
So can I ask how exactly you disembark or even embark from/onto a vendetta with a large unit since the model is far larger than it's base? Getting within 2" is practically impossible without going under the hull.
|
Looking for games in Shanghai? Send a PM |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/01/03 02:25:05
Subject: Tall based skimmers, models underneath and immobilized
|
 |
[DCM]
Tilter at Windmills
|
Deathreaper has it.
|
Adepticon 2015: Team Tourney Best Imperial Team- Team Ironguts, Adepticon 2014: Team Tourney 6th/120, Best Imperial Team- Cold Steel Mercs 2, 40k Championship Qualifier ~25/226
More 2010-2014 GT/Major RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 78-20-9 // SW: 8-1-2 (Golden Ticket with SW), BA: 29-9-4 6th Ed GT & RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 36-12-2 // BA: 11-4-1 // SW: 1-1-1
DT:70S++++G(FAQ)M++B++I+Pw40k99#+D+++A+++/sWD105R+++T(T)DM+++++
A better way to score Sportsmanship in tournaments
The 40K Rulebook & Codex FAQs. You should have these bookmarked if you play this game.
The Dakka Dakka Forum Rules You agreed to abide by these when you signed up.
Maelstrom's Edge! |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/01/03 02:26:16
Subject: Tall based skimmers, models underneath and immobilized
|
 |
Blackclad Wayfarer
From England. Living in Shanghai
|
Thanks DR. For the game we decided to just move the models underneath the minimum distance necessary to clear the immobile skimmer while retaining coherency. Nice to know we technically did nothing illegal
|
Looking for games in Shanghai? Send a PM |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/01/03 04:38:29
Subject: Tall based skimmers, models underneath and immobilized
|
 |
[MOD]
Making Stuff
|
DeathReaper wrote:#4: Leave the skimmer on its stand.
This is actually the correct answer as the rules currently stand.
You're told to remove the skimmer's base 'if possible'. Since the rules don't give permission to move other models out of the way, and they don't cover what to do if you remove the base and can't place it due to other models being in the way, it is not possible to remove the base. So you leave it on. The skimmer is immobilised and hovering in place.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/01/03 08:19:27
Subject: Re:Tall based skimmers, models underneath and immobilized
|
 |
Depraved Slaanesh Chaos Lord
|
The BGB specifically says that the skimmer may stay on its stand. The explanation given in the BGB is something along the lines of 'even though the vehicle is immobilized, its anti-grav engines continue to work'.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/01/03 12:12:28
Subject: Tall based skimmers, models underneath and immobilized
|
 |
Decrepit Dakkanaut
|
Firstly, you CAN have skimmers over other models - the rules are that a skimmer may not end ITS move over other models, but the reverse is not prohibited.
You remove the base "if possible", as has been covered above. It is not possible to remove the base, as you dont have permission to move models out the way of it, so you keep the model on its base
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/01/03 19:36:33
Subject: Tall based skimmers, models underneath and immobilized
|
 |
Decrepit Dakkanaut
|
DeathReaper wrote:That is not true at all. Then can you please find me somewhere that supports this? It's not that I don't believe you, it's that I was told I couldn't do it previously and it seemed like a reasonable enough rule that it might exist (during a timed game leafing through the BRB for something like that can be a huge time-waster), so knowing the exact page number so I can mark it (everything in my army has its codex page and relevant BRB rules marked for quick access during tournament play) would be very helpful in future.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/01/03 19:36:46
Mandorallen turned back toward the insolently sneering baron. 'My Lord,' The great knight said distantly, 'I find thy face apelike and thy form misshapen. Thy beard, moreover, is an offence against decency, resembling more closely the scabrous fur which doth decorate the hinder portion of a mongrel dog than a proper adornment for a human face. Is it possibly that thy mother, seized by some wild lechery, did dally at some time past with a randy goat?' - Mimbrate Knight Protector Mandorallen.
Excerpt from "Seeress of Kell", Book Five of The Malloreon series by David Eddings.
My deviantART Profile - Pay No Attention To The Man Behind The Madness
"You need not fear us, unless you are a dark heart, a vile one who preys on the innocent; I promise, you can’t hide forever in the empty darkness, for we will hunt you down like the animals you are, and pull you into the very bowels of hell." Iron - Within Temptation |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/01/03 19:51:37
Subject: Tall based skimmers, models underneath and immobilized
|
 |
Decrepit Dakkanaut
|
"Skimmers" in the BRB is where you find you cannot end your skimmers move over another model
That is the only resitriction listed.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/01/03 20:06:21
Subject: Tall based skimmers, models underneath and immobilized
|
 |
Longtime Dakkanaut
|
"A model may not move into or through the space occupied by another model (which is represented by its base or by its hull)"
My issue with this, is that the space of a model that you can not move into or through is represent by only its base. No mention of vertical space at all--where the actual model is. Also, due to physics, no to objects can occupy the same space anyway. THUS, the space a base or hull takes up must include more than the physical matter of the base or hull one would think.
I always argued that the game uses a 2-D interpretation of space... aka Bases and hulls are looked at from a top down perspective. With this interpretation, you can not have models underneath/on top of each other.
If instead you use a 3-D interpretation, I see nothing that prevents placing infantry on top of a vehicle, as they are not occupying the same space after all--they cant!
Now, the rules do reference moving under skimmers to get to their base quite often. Thus, skimmers break the game, allowing 2 models to be on top of the same part of the table. This is not a new issue, its just most pronounced with the new skimmer flying stand.
As others said, keep the Vendetta on its base when destroyed as a workaround until 6th ed clears up the skimmer rules.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/01/03 20:15:57
Subject: Tall based skimmers, models underneath and immobilized
|
 |
[MOD]
Making Stuff
|
DevianID wrote:Thus, skimmers break the game, allowing 2 models to be on top of the same part of the table.
Only if you take the 2D view of the game... which the rules don't actually support.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/01/03 20:28:50
Subject: Tall based skimmers, models underneath and immobilized
|
 |
Longtime Dakkanaut
|
Only if you take the 2D view of the game... which the rules don't actually support.
Agreed, the rules dont support 2d versus 3d. As I stated however, according to the RAW only a base counts as the model's space. The actual physical space the model takes up seems not to matter for movement. Thus, protrusions from one model phasing through another shadowcat style, so long as the bases dont, would appear to be RAW.
|
|
 |
 |
|