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I recently started playing Tyranids and I was really surprised with how effective they were. I know most people consider them to be a mediocre (middle-low tier) army and while I wouldn't call them "great", they're definitely solid. My only problem with them...I'm not really sure how to deal with powerful/elite units and deathstars.

I've enjoyed all of my games with Tyranids, but there are two specific units that I've encountered that have almost always:
1. At least doubled their points in what they kill and
2. Survived until the end of the game

The two units are a squad of assault terminators + some special character (I think it's Vulkan) in a Land Raider and an optimized Nob Squad (9-10 Nobs) in a Battlewagon. Now, these two units are just the examples I've encountered - I know there are others. I'm just looking for effective ways of dealing with them.

They're difficult to avoid because of the fast moving assault vehicles. Swarms can't deal enough wounds to be effective. Even the best monstrous creatures are bad at dealing with both units.

Any ideas or suggestions?

Do you field doom?

Edit - Better yet, what kind of list do you field?

A squad of assault carnifex would do pretty well against those, so long as you get the charge. If you get the charge, you can attack before hammers / claws, and kill a LOT of models.

Genestealers are pretty awesome. Theyre probably one of the best units in the codex

Genestealers. BIG units. With toxin sacs. Backed up by a Hive Tyrant with Paroxysm and Old Adversary.

You'll kill about 8 TH/SS Termies on charge (not counting the Hive Tyrant), and they hit you back on 5's.

Similarly nasty things to nobz: ~26 normal wounds backed up by ~13 rends is nothing to be sniffed at. It's not *that* expensive either... (340 for 20 toxinstealers + ~300 for Tyrant + Guard + OA is not cheap, but neither is asstermies with Vulkan in a Land Raider)

'Kay it's ridiculously expensive but very funny. In a TAC list... just tarpit them, or charge them with multiple scary squads as listed above. Bubblewrap your MC's with cheap gants, and if the deathstar takes the bait, hit them with the rest of your army.

If KP arn't involved, I have seen common tactics of drowning elite enemy units with termagaunt spawned by Tervigons.

The rest of the Nid army just runs around killing everything else.

Just run the numbers with toxin stealers alone then. 40 attacks when you get charged, 2/3 hit 3/4 wound. 20 wounds, about 7 of which are rends. About 4 dead thss, but you may not kill any nobs with wound allocation. Nobs will still be hurting though.

To kill nobz, the swarmlord does great. High init, reroll inv instant death. The trick is surviving the claws by using wound allocation on the tyrant guard or a blocking small gant squad that limits access.

Vs Nobs I've found that a volley or two from Hive Guards reduces the number-count of the nobz squad, which makes life much easier when trying to overwhelm wound-allocation.

Thanks for the suggestions, everyone! I have a lot of things to try, although I'd like to see if I can avoid using higher point costs to deal with the units. 600+ points of anything should be able to deal with these units. I'd like to see if there's a more effective strategy.

What do people think about Shrikes with boneswords and toxin sacs? WS 5, jump infantry (likely to get the charge and harder to simply avoid), 3 attacks each, scything talons, reroll to wound PW that can cause instant death. They would be 50 pts per model, but it seems decent. What do you think? On a related note, how many would you take (I'm thinking 4 or 5)? And is there any way to make them slightly more survivable?

Razerous wrote:Vs Nobs I've found that a volley or two from Hive Guards reduces the number-count of the nobz squad, which makes life much easier when trying to overwhelm wound-allocation.

This I've found is one of the best ways to take down Nob squads quickly, without sacrificing a lot of points.

Thanks for the suggestions, everyone! I have a lot of things to try, although I'd like to see if I can avoid using higher point costs to deal with the units. 600+ points of anything should be able to deal with these units. I'd like to see if there's a more effective strategy.

What do people think about Shrikes with boneswords and toxin sacs? WS 5, jump infantry (likely to get the charge and harder to simply avoid), 3 attacks each, scything talons, reroll to wound PW that can cause instant death. They would be 50 pts per model, but it seems decent. What do you think? On a related note, how many would you take (I'm thinking 4 or 5)? And is there any way to make them slightly more survivable?

Shrikes suffer the same problems as Warriors, which is ID from the abundance of strength 8+ weaponry that is extremely common in the current meta. They can be fun, but they are a single volley of Missile launchers away from being turned to dust.

Siphen wrote:Thanks for the suggestions, everyone! I have a lot of things to try, although I'd like to see if I can avoid using higher point costs to deal with the units. 600+ points of anything should be able to deal with these units. I'd like to see if there's a more effective strategy.

What do people think about Shrikes with boneswords and toxin sacs? WS 5, jump infantry (likely to get the charge and harder to simply avoid), 3 attacks each, scything talons, reroll to wound PW that can cause instant death. They would be 50 pts per model, but it seems decent. What do you think? On a related note, how many would you take (I'm thinking 4 or 5)? And is there any way to make them slightly more survivable?

Well, you wouldn't have Rending, Boneswords, and Scything Talons... that's 3 weapon sets and you're limited to 2.

I've done 7 Shrikes with Rending/ST and while it wasn't horrible, it wasn't great either. It was a cheap assault threat that had to be dealt with, and allowed my gargs and HT to get into assault and nuke a few units.

All this genestealer math hammer doesn't make all that sense. TH/SS have invulnerable saves 3++. Not to mention the fact they are in a land raider. You mean to tell me you will not lose a single genestealer before you even get a chance to pop open the LR?

Even if you are outflanking the stealers who in the right mind would keep their LR near the sides while playing a stealer army?

First thing first is you need a way to open the raider before going after the insides. Genestealers will be great for the insides but the LR needs to be popped first. Odds are it is moving so it's not like you can easily hit it in an assault.

Truth be told I don't have an answer on how to deal with this one hopefully someone else can help. All I had to mention was this math hammer is not realistic when you consider actual game play.

Warriors and Shrikes are awesome, but Nobs have a 5++ and Termies have a 3++, so they aren't the best choice against deathstars.

The Genestealer idea sounds pretty clutch, I'll have to give them a go.

skycapt44 wrote:All this genestealer math hammer doesn't make all that sense. TH/SS have invulnerable saves 3++. Not to mention the fact they are in a land raider. You mean to tell me you will not lose a single genestealer before you even get a chance to pop open the LR?

Even if you are outflanking the stealers who in the right mind would keep their LR near the sides while playing a stealer army?

First thing first is you need a way to open the raider before going after the insides. Genestealers will be great for the insides but the LR needs to be popped first. Odds are it is moving so it's not like you can easily hit it in an assault.

Truth be told I don't have an answer on how to deal with this one hopefully someone else can help. All I had to mention was this math hammer is not realistic when you consider actual game play.

You play with 2x20 Genestealers. The terminators will come out at some point to try to stop the Genestealers or they will overrun everything in their army. You don't outflank with big blocks of stealers, you put them in the middle of the board with infiltrate, give them FNP with Tervigons and press forward. The rest of your army walks up behind them mostly unmolested. If the LR pushes through via tank shock or going around, you swamp them with Gants, hit them with whatever your deathstar or secondary wave is (Tyrant deathstar, carnifex/prime combo, gargoyle blobs, etc.) when they hop out. Most Tyranid players want the LR to come closer so their Zoes can pop it, if they don't have Zoes they usually have either Tyrannofexen, Harpies or some MC capable of dealing with AV 14. These usually prefer to have the LR come to them, so if they blow past your Genestealers they're only helping you.