Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

-how is it made?
-can more be made?

Whack one in a marine and wait 15(?) years.
The second one matures and is extracted.
The marine dies and the geneseed is extracted.
1 geneseed becomes 2.
Thus the chapter endures.

what about the legions of old? same procedure but on a larger scale?

Legions were comprised of SM.
Chapters are comprised of SM.
Take a guess.

There must be some way of duplicating gene seeds.
Otherwise, every time one is destroyed the total number of possible marines is reduced, and there are dozens of pretty common weapons that would surely obliterate any flesh organ.

Does the fluff give any details?

agent.grey wrote:There must be some way of duplicating gene seeds.
Otherwise, every time one is destroyed the total number of possible marines is reduced, and there are dozens of pretty common weapons that would surely obliterate any flesh organ.

Does the fluff give any details?

Fairly sure i answered this...

agent.grey wrote:There must be some way of duplicating gene seeds.
Otherwise, every time one is destroyed the total number of possible marines is reduced, and there are dozens of pretty common weapons that would surely obliterate any flesh organ.

Does the fluff give any details?

1 geneseed implanted in marine
Marine grows another one
2 marines harvested
???

Profit!

Course there will be losses, but generally Apothecaries are great at harvesting them (they're marines too) and they're fething space marines! It'll take a lot to completely mangle their bodies. That and not all marines die in glorious last stands some die in great battles, most aren't exploded into itty bits.

If I remember my SM fluff right, Space Marines have two progenoid glands; one is harvested as soon as it matures, while the other is harvested upon the death of the Space Marine.

That said, geneseed availability is deliberately kept limited; it's the one real control the Imperium has over the Space Marines. Space Marine chapters receive shipments of new geneseed every so often, which keeps them dependent on the good will of the IoM to maintain themselves; without it, they die out as their chapter geneseed banks are slowly depleted and/or mutate away from the original.

Presumably the Priesthood of Mars has some way to manufacture it, but no-one knows how.

BeRzErKeR wrote:If I remember my SM fluff right, Space Marines have two progenoid glands; one is harvested as soon as it matures, while the other is harvested upon the death of the Space Marine.

That said, geneseed availability is deliberately kept limited; it's the one real control the Imperium has over the Space Marines. Space Marine chapters receive shipments of new geneseed every so often, which keeps them dependent on the good will of the IoM to maintain themselves; without it, they die out as their chapter geneseed banks are slowly depleted and/or mutate away from the original.

Presumably the Priesthood of Mars has some way to manufacture it, but no-one knows how.

I thought the second one could be removed earlier but some choose to leave it in

agent.grey wrote:There must be some way of duplicating gene seeds.
Otherwise, every time one is destroyed the total number of possible marines is reduced, and there are dozens of pretty common weapons that would surely obliterate any flesh organ.

Does the fluff give any details?

I always thought the geneseed was like a DNA-type thing kept in the organ that escapes my memory.. So I guess the Apothecary needs a grimdark syringe to pull it out. Its not an organ itself that can be blasted to bits. Anyway, my 2 cents..

Budgie wrote:

agent.grey wrote:There must be some way of duplicating gene seeds.
Otherwise, every time one is destroyed the total number of possible marines is reduced, and there are dozens of pretty common weapons that would surely obliterate any flesh organ.

Does the fluff give any details?

I always thought the geneseed was like a DNA-type thing kept in the organ that escapes my memory.. So I guess the Apothecary needs a grimdark syringe to pull it out. Its not an organ itself that can be blasted to bits. Anyway, my 2 cents..

All fluff says it is...

The narthecium is, basically, a grimdark syringe. Given that Apothecaries grant FNP, it's likely partially loaded with painkillers and super-steroids, and partially a chamber for extracting progenoid glands.

Geneseed is manufactured in the progenoid gland; if the progenoid gland gets blown to hell, then presumably the poor luckless Space Marine has geneseed sprayed all over the inside of his chest cavity.

That means that the Apothecary isn't gonna be able to do a battlefield extraction; and given that Space Marines can spit acid and do all sorts of other strange stuff, they likely have very volatile internal processes. Meaning poor Battle-Brother Schlemiel will probably be so rotten by the time the corpse gets back to the fortress-monastery that what's left will not be salvageable.

BeRzErKeR wrote:The narthecium is, basically, a grimdark syringe. Given that Apothecaries grant FNP, it's likely partially loaded with painkillers and super-steroids, and partially a chamber for extracting progenoid glands.

Geneseed is manufactured in the progenoid gland; if the progenoid gland gets blown to hell, then presumably the poor luckless Space Marine has geneseed sprayed all over the inside of his chest cavity.

That means that the Apothecary isn't gonna be able to do a battlefield extraction; and given that Space Marines can spit acid and do all sorts of other strange stuff, they likely have very volatile internal processes. Meaning poor Battle-Brother Schlemiel will probably be so rotten by the time the corpse gets back to the fortress-monastery that what's left will not be salvageable.

IIRC the progenoid gland is the geneseed.
It resembles a small fleshy orb according to Brothers of the Snake.

purplefood wrote:

BeRzErKeR wrote:The narthecium is, basically, a grimdark syringe. Given that Apothecaries grant FNP, it's likely partially loaded with painkillers and super-steroids, and partially a chamber for extracting progenoid glands.

Geneseed is manufactured in the progenoid gland; if the progenoid gland gets blown to hell, then presumably the poor luckless Space Marine has geneseed sprayed all over the inside of his chest cavity.

That means that the Apothecary isn't gonna be able to do a battlefield extraction; and given that Space Marines can spit acid and do all sorts of other strange stuff, they likely have very volatile internal processes. Meaning poor Battle-Brother Schlemiel will probably be so rotten by the time the corpse gets back to the fortress-monastery that what's left will not be salvageable.

IIRC the progenoid gland is the geneseed.
It resembles a small fleshy orb according to Brothers of the Snake.

Gene-seed and Zygotes; Chapter approved, Warhammer 40k Compendium P7;

There are ninteen varieties of gene-seed corresponding to the ninteen different super-human organs which are sugically implanted into the space marine.

Most Chapters have existed for thousands of years.During that time,gene-seed belonging to some chapters has mutated. This has resulted in changes in the exact nature of the artifically cultured organs. Such changes may sometimes make a implant useless. In other circumstances changes in an organ might reduce its effectiveness, or cause new and strange effects. Whatever the result, it will affect the entire chapter-all Space MArines belonging to a chapter share implants cultured from the same origional gene-seed.

As well as mutant implants, many chapters have lost one ore more types of gene-seed due to accident,genetic failure, or some other cause. Very few chapters therefore possess all ninteen implants. All possess the carapace implant (phase 19). It is this implant which marks a Space Marine for what he is- irrespective of other impants.

Reproducing Zygotes CA WDC P9;

Gene-seed can only be obtained by removing one or both of the progenoid organs from a living (or very reciently deceased) Marine. The whole purpace of the progenoid organ is to provide gene-seed to enable the chapter to continue. It is not possible to create a zygote in any other way. Each chapters stock of gene-seed is therefore unique to itself. Gene-ssed has a great religious significance to a chapter. repersenting its idenity and future. Without gene-seed a chapter has no future. The extinction of a type of gene-seed means that a zygote has been lost forever. The extinction of a phase 18 or 19 gene-seed would effectively mean an end to a chapter.

As each marine has only two progeniod glands, the rate at which a chapter can create new marines is restricted. It may take many years for a chapter to rebuild itself after heavy losses. Gene-seed is often rendered useless if a Marine is exposed to high radiation levels or other forms of genetic disturbance. The efficiency of different chapters progeniod gene-seed also varies, and some chapters are able to make up their numbers faster then others.

BeRzErKeR wrote:The narthecium is, basically, a grimdark syringe. Given that Apothecaries grant FNP, it's likely partially loaded with painkillers and super-steroids, and partially a chamber for extracting progenoid glands.

Geneseed is manufactured in the progenoid gland; if the progenoid gland gets blown to hell, then presumably the poor luckless Space Marine has geneseed sprayed all over the inside of his chest cavity.

That means that the Apothecary isn't gonna be able to do a battlefield extraction; and given that Space Marines can spit acid and do all sorts of other strange stuff, they likely have very volatile internal processes. Meaning poor Battle-Brother Schlemiel will probably be so rotten by the time the corpse gets back to the fortress-monastery that what's left will not be salvageable.

They do do battlefield extractions using the carnifex if needed to euthanise dying marines. The reductor (wolves have a super special version called a fang of morkai, it's like calling a normal syringe a wolf syringe...) is what harvests the geneseed.

Narthecium is basically a medkit containing all the tools. Not all harvesting though they have stuff like anti-venin (surprisingly), stim-pack, general healing supplies and some clay stuff to plug up wounds.

Gee, you would think that maybe a chapter would get the wise idea to sit out the galactic grim-dark for, I dunno, 50 years, maybe a few more or less, and during that time harvest geneseed and make new marines. This would easily triple (if not more) a chapter's size.

Once they did this they could send out the marines that had already had their geneseed harvested and keep the ones growing geneseed back at base to make more new marines. This would more or less eliminate dependency on the whims of the IoM.

Darthslowe wrote:Gee, you would think that maybe a chapter would get the wise idea to sit out the galactic grim-dark for, I dunno, 50 years, maybe a few more or less, and during that time harvest geneseed and make new marines. This would easily triple (if not more) a chapter's size.

Once they did this they could send out the marines that had already had their geneseed harvested and keep the ones growing geneseed back at base to make more new marines. This would more or less eliminate dependency on the whims of the IoM.

The extraction of the geneseed is normally believed to be fatal. Hence why it is only taken from dead marines. (or dieing)

The geneseeds can be created without extraction... if you happen to have a sample of Primarch DNA and the Technology used to create them. But it was supposedly lost during the Horus Heresy when fighting destroyed the Facility on Luna.

Darthslowe wrote:Gee, you would think that maybe a chapter would get the wise idea to sit out the galactic grim-dark for, I dunno, 50 years, maybe a few more or less, and during that time harvest geneseed and make new marines. This would easily triple (if not more) a chapter's size.

Once they did this they could send out the marines that had already had their geneseed harvested and keep the ones growing geneseed back at base to make more new marines. This would more or less eliminate dependency on the whims of the IoM.

that and its against the codex astrates.

Asherian Command wrote:

Darthslowe wrote:Gee, you would think that maybe a chapter would get the wise idea to sit out the galactic grim-dark for, I dunno, 50 years, maybe a few more or less, and during that time harvest geneseed and make new marines. This would easily triple (if not more) a chapter's size.

Once they did this they could send out the marines that had already had their geneseed harvested and keep the ones growing geneseed back at base to make more new marines. This would more or less eliminate dependency on the whims of the IoM.

that and its against the codex astrates.

"Screw you and your book Roboute" Attributed to Leman Russ Primarch of VI Legion in responce to his brother Primarch Roboute Guilliman's repeated requests to sell Him on the merits of the Codex Astartes. -- Sequestered under inqisitoral order P-Z/Ih 00034 M31, Transfered to Data archive 45023-unit R and reciently discovered by Crypto-Archologist unit attached to Inquistoral Deletion Kill Team Phi-3 stationed in Terran Archives

Geneseed is grown from the mature progeniod glands found in SM, so for every marine implanted with the organs from 1 geneseed after 10 years 2 sets of geneseed can be removed.

The process is very well covered in the Index Astartes reprint in the current SM codex.

I believe the process of 'making' new gene seed has long since been lost. The Mechanicus requires a tithe of gene seed from the chapters for testing and the creation of new chapters. The progenoid contains all of the genetic material needed to grow all of the implants that goes into a marine. Some here have stated that one progenoid is removed early, and based on the chapter the 2nd is removed either post mortem, or extracted early to facilitate chapter growth.

As for the narthecium, it is essentially a syringe, but more like a pneumatic piston, as the apothecary has to burst through the fused rib cage of the marines to obtain the gene seed at least in battlefield conditions. This is only done when the marine has no chance of survival and doesn't warrant internment into a dreadnaught.

As for the chapter sitting back for half a century to grow their geneseed stockpiles, this likely could be done if there are no pressing campaigns that the chapter is required to become involved in. This is likely used as a last resort to bring a chapter back from catastrophic losses. The problem with this, is during this time, the initiates of the chapter wouldn't get any battlefield experience which would be detrimental to the chapter in the long run. If this were to be the case, I could see small teams of marines (1-3 tactical squads with scout support) coordinating with other chapters or imperial forces to maintain their presence on the front lines. This would allow new scouts to get the experience they need to be awarded the black carapace but at the same time not threatening a dwindling progenoid reserve.

Not the best format, I know, but hopefully it makes sense?

Also, the Adeptes Mechanicus maintains vast storehouses of geneseed, and since they're such sticklers for detail, I am sure it would be labelled by the founding chapter. Maybe in the direst of circumstances a chapter could request from the Mechanicus to tap into their reserves to restore them to fighting strength. I don't have any citation for that, as it is just a personal thought.

the tiger claws from IA9 supposedly petitioned the high lords to release their gene-seed samples so they could rebiuld their chapter so it's not unheard of Avynn (but he vanished soon after...the captain I mean)