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Greetings,

Sorry folks, I know I've probably worn thin on some of you constantly posting Necron rules questions lately, but the er... character... of the codex and some of its more unusual facets necessitate clarification when able and consensus at worst.

My next topic of trying to understand this [censored] [censored] [censored] piece of [censored] written by that [censored] Matt [censored] Ward deals with the Necron Snipers and their Hunters from Hyperspace Rule combo-ing with Cryptech packing the Abyssal Staff.

For clarification purposes I will post the germane rules:

Abyssal Staff:
Template Str 8 AP1-- Assault 1, Shroud of Despair*

Shroud of Despair: To wound rolls from the Abyssal Staff's shooting attacks are made against the target's leadership rather than toughness.The abyssal staff's attack has no effect against vehicles.

Deathmarks-- the Necron Snipers..

Hunters from Hyperspace:
When a deathmark unit deploys, choose a non-vehicle enemy unit on the battlefield (even a unit in a transport) to be their prey-- place a counter next to the chosen unit to serve as a reminder. Any deathmark unit that shoots at, or strikes blows against, a unit marked in this fashion will score a wound on a roll of 2+

Now obviously, you fine folks see where I'm going with this (here's looking at YOU Palladins).

I understand the general consensus so far has been that cryptechs shooting tremorstaves have been getting the OK to wound on a 2+---so is there ANY reason why this should also be applicable?

Thanks as always (unless you just say something like "I would't let you do it")

A quick search reveals a number of threads on this very topic.

With no 100% clear ruling eaither way i fall into the camp of 'may not deep strike but will gain HfH' if a cryptek joins them

So yes - the abysal staff will wound on a 2+... but ID is still resolved at S8 vs LD

ah I'm not actually seeing that per se. I don't have a BGB handy but could someone drop the exact wording on instant death.

I'm 'fairly' certain that even though I do have to achieve the 'to wound' condition of Str 8 versus Ld whatever once the wound is dealt.. it is Str 8 REGARDLESS and if it would ID due to target toughness that should still occur.

Naturally, I'm not going to get up on a soap box over this until I have a chance to find my copy and check it out, but as noted, I want to follow up (or would welcome someone else posting )

My take on this (and I have been championing this bloody combo for so long now that I'm starting to wonder if I should try to re-name it "Azazel's Law" ):


1. The Hunters From Hyperspace rule applies to the entire Deathmark unit, as per pg. 36 of the Necron codex.
2. Crypteks can join a unit as per pg. 90 of the Necron codex.
3. Therefore, the Crypteks gain the benefit of the Hunters From Hyperspace rule.
4. A unit may not deep strike unless all models in that unit have the deep strike special ability as per the BGB FAQ.
5. Therefore, the Deathmark unit may not deep strike if a Cryptek is attached.
6. Currently strict RAW the Abyssal Staff will ID against models with a Toughness of 4 or less, because although the Abyssal Staff works to wound against the Leadership value, the ID rule is not mentioned and therefore not changed to count against the Leadership value, thus meaning ID is determined by the Abyssal Staff's Strength (8) versus the Toughness of the model. However this one element is almost certain to be changed in a FAQ as per the precedent set by some weapon with a similar issue in the Dark Eldar codex & FAQ.


You can find endless discussions on this very topic in no less than four other threads, just search for the word "Deathmark" in either YMDC or Tactics forums.

Azazel's Law seems to be the most correct interpretation.

However note that on 6) EVERY single weapon that has EVER wounded against Ld has required you to double the Ld to ID the model
WHile strict RAW allows it, you are on unsafe ground applying it here, pre FAQ

nosferatu1001 wrote:However note that on 6) EVERY single weapon that has EVER wounded against Ld has required you to double the Ld to ID the model
WHile strict RAW allows it, you are on unsafe ground applying it here, pre FAQ

This. You can play it as ID'ing vs toughness if you want. The FAQ has a 99% chance to rule against that, and I wouldn't play it that way knowing how the FAQ will rule.

Yeah, that's basically what I suggested.

Fair enough, BUT in the interim it's time to hose the hell out of some palladins.

eventually the rules goblins will come and take away my shiny mega-flamer-from-hell, but for now it burns brightly and more importantly burns in accordance with RAW.

From the new Necron FAQ:

Q: Do models from a Royal Court that are attached to a
Deathmark Squad benefit from the Hunters from
Hyperspace special rule? (p90)
A: Yes.

Q: When using an abyssal staff, do you use the target’s
Toughness or Leadership for the purposes of working
out if Instant Death applies? (p84)
A: You use the target’s Leadership.

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2170012a_Necron_FAQ_Version_2_0_January_2012.pdf

Also from the FAQ, if a Royal Court is joined to a Deathmark unit, the Deathmark unit may not Deepstrike. So, you'd have to put a Veil in the unit and they'd have to come on from normal reserves. Although I don't have my Necron codex on me, so I'm not sure of the actual wording.

Also from the new FAQ...
Q: Can a veil of darkness be used instead of moving
onto the board when a unit arrives from reserve? (p84)
A: Yes.

Or in the shorthand version:
Q: Abyssal Staff + Deathmarks = Crazy-Go-Nuts?
A:

Here's a question:

Since you can veil onto the table from reserves, can you also use the other deathmark special ability to deep strike on your opponent's turn with said unit, even if it has crypteks attached?

The Cryptek never gains the ability to Deep Strike. They have a piece of wargear that allows them to move during their own movement phase as if they were deep striking, or arrive from reserve as if they were deep striking.

This is one of those times where counts as just isn't quite good enough to fulfill the entire rule for Etheral Interception.

When arriving by Etheral Interception the Deathmark unit is given permission to deep strike during the opponents turn. The Veil of Darkness has no such permission, and its a piece of wargear that has an ability that is like deep strike, but it does not actually give the deep strike rule to the Cryptek.

The unit may not arrive via deep strike unless all members of the unit have the rule, and seeing as how the Cryptek does not have deep strike, they may not arrive using Etheral Interception.

At least thats how I read the rules.

They still seem like quite the unit when you have 2 abyssal staff wielding Crypteks attached to them, and I am going to playtest a list that has 2 x 5 units of Deathmarks, each with 2 Abyssal Staff Crypteks. Should make for some interesting mayhem.

I don't think Ethereal interception is really an issue. Even without it, you can still Veil around the table placing HfH tokens on everything (assuming that we consider the Deathmarks as being deployed)-- then Abyssal Staff to the face FTW.

Without EI, they simply can't deep strike from reserves during the enemy turn....BFD.

Just means that you can't really get things going until after the 1st turn. It's still a fun combo IMO.

They aso FAQ'd that you could not DS if there wer court members attached

Which didn't actually need a FAQ for the deepstrike issue, as we already knew this as per the BGB FAQ. But it's nice that they specified.


EDIT: However, being able to VoD from reserves is an interesting option that I did not expect.