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I have been reading through a few posts and army lists as i try to get ready for my first few games with NewCrons.

I have noticed that, despite a lot of talk about how nice their rules were etc, not a lot of people are actually using the Triarch Praetorians or Lych Guard.

is this because they are too expensive for a "competative" list or are they just not that good?

They are expensive for I2 combat models.

First of all, Praetorians.

Do . not . take . the terrible terrible terrible rod of the covenant. It's really bad.

Praetorians really shine with Voidblades (a 'lil anti armour and +1 attack for two CC weapons) and lead by a Destroyer Lord with a Rez Orb and Mindshackle Scarabs. I'll take this unit into combat against a lot of different things, including enemy dreadnaughts.

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Lychguard suffer from being really really slow and not (yet) having a quality means of conveyance. I think you'll see them more when people can load 'em into a Night Scythe. Right now, they need to footslog across the field.

Once in a Night Scythe, you can take a unit with WarScythes, Turbo boost across the board (enjoying your 4+ save while going 36") hop out and assault next turn (assuming you got somewhere interesting and don't have to move to far, thus stopping the assault). If they hop out before the Night Scythe moves off again, they can assault.

300 - 325 pt unit of hawtness.

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Edit: I'm looking forward to 5 lychguard with Sword & Board with a Rez Orb Lord with some stuff and two crypteks of eternity with chronometrons. It's the unit that never dies. (re-roll two D6's a phase, that can be 4+ reanimation rolls, 4+ invul saves, 3+ armour saves, ld checks...)

I haven't seen anyone saying that Lychguard or Praetorians have amazing rules or are highly competitive units, there was a the usual snowballing of stuff pre codex release but I haven't seen anyone saying they are competitive now that we have the full picture.

Both are incredibly slow to start with and have no real delivery system which by itself basically removes them from consideration. Even ignoring the lack of a model for the Night Scythe the fact that units go back into reserve when it dies combined with being closed topped makes it a terrible assault vehicle. In terms of actual assault ability they are always going to be at a seriously disadvantage against other assault units thanks to I2, Lychguard have to choose between hitting incredibly hard or actually sticking around long enough to swing (not being able to mix and match is a problem) and Praetorians are behind them in both damage output (rending is not as good as S7 MC) and survivability (no Invulnerable) and don't have the attacks to worry people.

You can do all sorts of fun and interesting combos with them (as is the way with the Necron book) when you add in Crypteks, Lords or other characters, but at the end of the day you still don't solve the underlying issue which is reliably getting them into a position where they can do damage.

They are I2 CC units. And no matter about the fact that they have RP, because RP doesn't win combats.

Now, compare them with the incredibly useful Triarch Stalker that has great anti-tank and can twin link your entire army (very fearsome with either Tesla or Gauss) and the Deathmarks, who are my favourite Elite unit by far.

For 155 points you can have a VoDing 5x Deathmarks with an Abyssal Staff Cryptek, that generally just becomes a murder machine on the battlefield.

I have difficulty seeing why anyone would choose the expensive I2 CC models over those options.

Triarch Praetorians have a lot of things that adds up, to cause problems for them. At their pointscost, they really should have a 2+ save, and at least 2 attacks base. That alone would jump up their usefulness a ton.

Lychguard suffer from being an elite CC unit, with WS 4, and lack of good assault transport. The WS 4 didn't bug me at first, but as time went on this was the biggest offender to me. Of all the units in the Necron Codex, these guys should have been WS 5, as that's all they ever trained to do, was combat. They are still a very resilent unit, but it's hard to fit them into a lot of lists.


I love the Triarch Stalker. I generally don't make a lot of use of it's twin linking ability, but it's Heatray is just awesome. With a lot of other AV 13 vehicles into the mix, it really hampers an enemies target priority. The major downside is, once it loses it's weapon it is totally useless.

The C'tan shard is super expensive, and while some of it's abilties are useful, I'd prefer to spend that mass of points elsewhere.

Deathmarks are interesting. Some people really seem to enjoy them, some don't. I'm going to play a few more games with them before I really settle an opinion.

I have a "spare" set of immortals that was going to return.....might have to look into Deathmarks instead.

They seem ok, i find it helps to think of them as assassins rather than snipers. i like the markign enemy units ability.

What i dont get is the fact that they DS during the opponents movement phase....what's the point? Surely they will just get shot and charged before they get a chance to do anything? Unless they can shoto immediately after DSingm, even if it's not in your turn?

Just seems a bit weird to me.

It's quite possible that it could have something to do with 6th edition, Praxiss.

As in the rules coudl change to make ych guard and praetorians more useful?

I know there are rumours that Preferred Enemy will apply to shooting, thus makign Destroyers more worthwhile.

Also heard that they mgith tweak the rules for ordnance which woudl allow the 'lith to fire everything (thus making the Heavy rule make more sense). Although this coudl be resovled by FAQing the Particle Whip to Large Blast rather than ordnance....


So far the rumour seem to indictae more of an emphasis on shooting in 6th ed.

Praxiss wrote:As in the rules coudl change to make ych guard and praetorians more useful?

I know there are rumours that Preferred Enemy will apply to shooting, thus makign Destroyers more worthwhile.

Also heard that they mgith tweak the rules for ordnance which woudl allow the 'lith to fire everything (thus making the Heavy rule make more sense). Although this coudl be resovled by FAQing the Particle Whip to Large Blast rather than ordnance....


So far the rumour seem to indictae more of an emphasis on shooting in 6th ed.

I meant more along the lines of the Deathmarks Deepstrike rules.

I really don't see the base rules making Praetorians and Lychguard better. They'd both have to have some significant changes in the FAQ or a reprint to make them more useful. However, I could be quite wrong, depending on where 6th takes us.

I've never once used the ability that lets me deep strike on my opponent's turn. I just don't see the point. Yet.

But you've got the right idea, Praxis. Don't think of Deathmarks as the sniper-on-the-rooftop kinda assassins; think of them as the walk-up-and-unload-a-MAC-10-into-your-chest kinda assassins. VoD 'em in, wipe out their target, and anything they accomplish in the battle after that is just gravy.

I'm thinking they could be good counters to some death start units (looking at you Ragnar!!)

If they can rapid fire 10 shots that wound on a 2+ with Rending and Pinning as well they stand a good chance of taking out a few decently pointed models.

I'm fabouring the more shooty options myself now anyway (although i am buying a Tomb Stalker at the weekend). I'm thinking Tomb Blades rather than Wraiths right now as well. I have 12 Destroyers so i might see if my oponents are ok with my proxying them as tomb blades until the proper models come out.

Sasori wrote:

I love the Triarch Stalker. I generally don't make a lot of use of it's twin linking ability, but it's Heatray is just awesome. With a lot of other AV 13 vehicles into the mix, it really hampers an enemies target priority. The major downside is, once it loses it's weapon it is totally useless.

I disagree with your idea that it is useless with a single weapon destroyed result... it still is a walker with (admittedly, sub-par) cc attacks. And if it gets wrecked or destroyed it can hamper your enemy.
Use everything but the oink!

Anpu-adom wrote:

Sasori wrote:

I love the Triarch Stalker. I generally don't make a lot of use of it's twin linking ability, but it's Heatray is just awesome. With a lot of other AV 13 vehicles into the mix, it really hampers an enemies target priority. The major downside is, once it loses it's weapon it is totally useless.

I disagree with your idea that it is useless with a single weapon destroyed result... it still is a walker with (admittedly, sub-par) cc attacks. And if it gets wrecked or destroyed it can hamper your enemy.
Use everything but the oink!

If it had a DCCW to ignore armor saves, It could still be useful, at best though, it can tie up a squad forever after it loses it's weapon.

Sasori wrote:
If it had a DCCW to ignore armor saves, It could still be useful, at best though, it can tie up a squad forever after it loses it's weapon.

I typically run two Stalkers in my lists and tend to find this works better than one might think at the end of the game. For the first 3-4 turns of the game they blow up as much crap as they can then serve as a fantasic tarpit on the last few turns of the game against hordes like nids and ork. (even the powerklaw needs a 6 to pen!) This buys me some time to either get away, grab/contest an objective/ or hold them in place for something more killy to finish them off like my Ctan Shard with Gaze of Death (love that unit fyi)

I've tried Lychgaurd and Pretorians and found both to be utterly too expensive for what they actually akomplish. Though I did recently see a video battle report on Miniwar Gaming where the necron player used 10 Lychgaurd with shields and a Rez Lord to serve as a mobile cover wall for his scarab swarms marching up the middle of the table. They drew alot of fire from the IG player and almost wiped the unit out twice, but RP kept them going.

I will admit I am a big fan of the Ctan Shard though, but he is the core of my list equiped with Wrathing Worldscape (spelling?) and Gaze of Death. He clocks in quite expensive at 270 or 280, but I always find he makes his points back in failed dangerous terrain rolls + the counter assult. Nothing better than having a group of paladins attempt to move forward for the assualt only to loose a guy before the battle starts from a failed dangerous terrain test!

Semi-Sidebar, regarding Deathmarks Deepstrike...

I wonder if game turns in 6th will be

I move, you move, I assault, you assault, I shoot, you shoot

loreweaver wrote:Semi-Sidebar, regarding Deathmarks Deepstrike...

I wonder if game turns in 6th will be

I move, you move, I assault, you assault, I shoot, you shoot

I think that would be pretty interesting.

ShadarLogoth wrote:

loreweaver wrote:Semi-Sidebar, regarding Deathmarks Deepstrike...

I wonder if game turns in 6th will be

I move, you move, I assault, you assault, I shoot, you shoot

I think that would be pretty interesting.

Isn't that what the rule set ws for LOTR?
You know, the game that failed?

Anyway, I find Deathmarks act great as a distraction unit.
Most opponents don't like the idea of a hit squad suddenly appearing next to their HQ.

Using Deathmarks as a distraction unit is a waste. Sure, nobody likes the hit squad popping up next to their HQ, until they realize that Necrons are I2 and just assault the Deathmarks, sweeping them in the first round of combat before they ever even get to shoot or swing back.

azazel the cat wrote:Using Deathmarks as a distraction unit is a waste. Sure, nobody likes the hit squad popping up next to their HQ, until they realize that Necrons are I2 and just assault the Deathmarks, sweeping them in the first round of combat before they ever even get to shoot or swing back.

Well, they still get a chance to swing back, albeit it at the meagre 1 attack/base.

loreweaver wrote:Semi-Sidebar, regarding Deathmarks Deepstrike...

I wonder if game turns in 6th will be

I move, you move, I assault, you assault, I shoot, you shoot

That would make assault weapons kinda pointless, but I guess it's possible.

I had also heard speculation that each players turn would be move, assault, shoot, which would also make assault weapons kinda pointless. We'll see.

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

ShadarLogoth wrote:

loreweaver wrote:Semi-Sidebar, regarding Deathmarks Deepstrike...

I wonder if game turns in 6th will be

I move, you move, I assault, you assault, I shoot, you shoot

I think that would be pretty interesting.

Isn't that what the rule set ws for LOTR?
You know, the game that failed?

Not to get off topic, but I'm sure the LOTR range didn't fail due to its rules mechancis, but more to franchise fatigue that many movie tie-in products suffer from after the movie stops being popular and relevant. I swore I read somewhere GW is going to do another LOTR surge to tie into the Hobbit movies and we'll see a sudden burst of popularity with the game for awhile while the movies are cirulating.

Many other game systems use the leap frog approach to player turn division and those games work just fine. In fact I'm hoping 40k does switch to something akin to this to help reduce some of the boredem and frustration that players face when your opponenet takes 30mins for his turn and all you can do is stand and watch his destroy all your guys and being unable to react until your turn.

kowbasher wrote:

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

ShadarLogoth wrote:

loreweaver wrote:Semi-Sidebar, regarding Deathmarks Deepstrike...

I wonder if game turns in 6th will be

I move, you move, I assault, you assault, I shoot, you shoot

I think that would be pretty interesting.

Isn't that what the rule set ws for LOTR?
You know, the game that failed?

Not to get off topic, but I'm sure the LOTR range didn't fail due to its rules mechancis, but more to franchise fatigue that many movie tie-in products suffer from after the movie stops being popular and relevant. I swore I read somewhere GW is going to do another LOTR surge to tie into the Hobbit movies and we'll see a sudden burst of popularity with the game for awhile while the movies are cirulating.

Many other game systems use the leap frog approach to player turn division and those games work just fine. In fact I'm hoping 40k does switch to something akin to this to help reduce some of the boredem and frustration that players face when your opponenet takes 30mins for his turn and all you can do is stand and watch his destroy all your guys and being unable to react until your turn.

Good points. Just rolling the ideas around in my head a bit, but I wonder if the I move U move I Shoot U Shoot I Assault U Assault would be to detrimental to the 1rst player as it would be nightmarishly difficult for the 1rst played to get a favourable assault off. Maybe a mechanic more like battle tech that even further divides it by unit, but that would have to be balanced again to make sure MSU units don't always end up with the initiative (although that in itself might be balanced around the fact that its good to shoot and assault last, it's nicht so gut to shoot last).

One thing about the Necron codex, and even the GK codex, is that they are written with 6th Ed. in mind. Some things with are meh now will be better after it gets released.

Well, hopefully.

I can see that being true for Deathmarks, but I actually see Preatorians w/Rods becoming worse from the potential Move->Assualt->Shoot change up. When would get to ever get to shoot? Then I had a thought...

Tye_Informer wrote:

loreweaver wrote:Semi-Sidebar, regarding Deathmarks Deepstrike...

I wonder if game turns in 6th will be

I move, you move, I assault, you assault, I shoot, you shoot

That would make assault weapons kinda pointless, but I guess it's possible.

I had also heard speculation that each players turn would be move, assault, shoot, which would also make assault weapons kinda pointless. We'll see.

Perhaps they will be allowing you to shoot with assault weapons as you charge? I know fantasy has a similar mechanic on the opposite side of the fight being in that the unit being charged can stop and shoot their ranged weapons at the charging unit. It would make sense to allow Assault weapons and pistols to be fired during the Assualt phase as long as you legally could charge, alot like it is now just in a different phase. I can see this working well to help prevent the whole "oh no i shot too many guys now they are out of charge range" situations that pop up everyonce and awhile.

Just some random thoughts.

Lychguard act as a real nice helper for wraith units once they catch up.
Kinda hard for an assaulty unit to combat against a full strength wraith unit, 3 with whipcoils and then 8 Lych with warscythes to follow.

Just played against deathwing the other day and they didnt do much until the end. I feel they are worth the points though when you play them smart.
With the Varguard, and a lord with res orb and mind shackle scarabs, its fun stuff. Expensive but fun.