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So earlier I was playing against a salamander player and an Ork player who true to orkish form had a massive horde of regular boyz and 'ardboyz each backed up by 3 or 4 deff dreads and two looted tanks. This was vs my nilla marine list consisting of Assault terminators with shrike, A VV squad with a jump chappy, a squad of sniper scouts, 2 full 10 mans of tac marines. Long story short the annihilation of all of my terminators was finished at the bottom of turn 3 after wiping out the salamander assault squad and being caught by a group of 4 deff dreads. My vanguard managed to take out half of his horde of like 30 ardboys before they went down at the bottom of turn 4. Question is: How does a vanilla marine army deal with an ork player?

Cozzy215 wrote:So earlier I was playing against a salamander player and an Ork player who true to orkish form had a massive horde of regular boyz and 'ardboyz each backed up by 3 or 4 deff dreads and two looted tanks. This was vs my nilla marine list consisting of Assault terminators with shrike, A VV squad with a jump chappy, a squad of sniper scouts, 2 full 10 mans of tac marines. Long story short the annihilation of all of my terminators was finished at the bottom of turn 3 after wiping out the salamander assault squad and being caught by a group of 4 deff dreads. My vanguard managed to take out half of his horde of like 30 ardboys before they went down at the bottom of turn 4. Question is: How does a vanilla marine army deal with an ork player?

My first Question is was it 3 OR 4 Deff Dreds and 2 Looted Wagons? I don't think it would be a legal list with 4 Deff Dreads and 2 Looted Wagons. Even more impossible if they didn't bring 2 Big Meks.

Assuming he too 2 Big Meks, he can bring 2 Deffdreads as troops. If he brought 2 more, those fill 2 slots of Heavy Support. Leaving only 1 slot for 1 Looted Wagon.....

And for dealing with Orkses (Horde army specifically) - Shooting is always a good plan.

More specifically - Templates and blasts

Things I hate facing when I play Orks are:

1. Vindicators.... they hurt bad (Like REALLY bad)
2. CML's
3. Missile Launchers
4. Flamers
5. Land Raiders w/Assault Termies

Remember that a Hoarde army is going to lack any ranged anti AV14. His list (at least with the info you have given) seems to lack any ranged firepower at all.

Standard Tac squads do well taking the normal ML/Flamer loadout

Sternguard tends to so some damage too with those nasty hellfire rounds as well.

Out of curiosity, what did he use to kill your assault termies?

7 deff dreads total a group of 3 and a group of 4 and 2 looted wagons. 1 tank was a looted basilisk and i cant remember what the other was.

The terminators were destroyed over a few turns by 4 of the dreads. But I destroyed 1 and stripped the weapons off of another.

Cozzy215 wrote:7 deff dreads total a group of 3 and a group of 4 and 2 looted wagons. 1 tank was a looted basilisk and i cant remember what the other was.

The terminators were destroyed over a few turns by 4 of the dreads. But I destroyed 1 and stripped the weapons off of another.

Deff Dreads or Killa Kans? Deff Dreads don't get to be in Squadrons...... And even as Killa Kans can only be taken in squads of 3.

There's something screwy with that list.....

If these were actually all Deff Dreads, then you were at a severe disadvantage.

knowing his full list would help as well.

That is part of the problem: I don't know the ork rules very well. As far as the list goes I honestly don't know I know he had dreads and that is what took out my termies, I know that there were 4 of them, I don't know for sure if he was having them counted as a squad but I do know that for the purpose of combat resolution that was how they were treated (meaning all 4 were attacking at 1 time instead of 4 separate combats).

Now that you mention it, and looking at the GW site at the kan models, the 3 i thought were dreds were actually kans.

Cozzy215 wrote:That is part of the problem: I don't know the ork rules very well. As far as the list goes I honestly don't know I know he had dreads and that is what took out my termies, I know that there were 4 of them, I don't know for sure if he was having them counted as a squad but I do know that for the purpose of combat resolution that was how they were treated (meaning all 4 were attacking at 1 time instead of 4 separate combats).

Now that you mention it, and looking at the GW site at the kan models, the 3 i thought were dreds were actually kans.

Hmm. Still doesn't seem right.

7 walkers total.

All of these walkers count towards a Heavy Support slot on the FOC.

We know 3 of them were Kans. This takes 1 Slot.
Then 2 more Slots for the Looted Wagons

Now all 3 are full.

We still have 4 walkers unaccounted for. Even if he had 2 Big Meks taking 2 Dreds, that leaves 2 more walkers that can't be in the list.

SO....You may want to find out exactly what he took, because at this point it sounds like the game was an uphill battle from the beginning.

Anyway,

The info I gave you above still holds true for dealing with Ork infantry. As for the walkers, Lascannons and Melta are always a good decision.

Yeah I guess I will have to be more mindful of that in the future. Anyway thanks for the general tips. Anything else you can think of?

He could have been fielding a dread mob from IA:8. Were his boyz lead by nobz, or by meks?

Jidmah wrote:He could have been fielding a dread mob from IA:8. Were his boyz lead by nobz, or by meks?

Yeah I thought about that too, but assumed for the moment they were playing a standard game.

What pts limit were you playing? Always ask to see the rules of the opponents unit if you dont know them by heart. Your list seems way to eliteish really. VV are pretty horrible and with a chaplin attateched they lose their one unique ability as well...

It was a standard game, the boyz were not led by meks. Point limit was 1550. And the way I play my VV I never use heroic intervention. (Shrike with fleet for whole army, with the right terrain they can cross the board virtually untouched.

I find thing i hate playing as orks are (i play similar, Lots of boys with some fancy gubbinz)
1. assault termies with a mix of TH/SS and lightning claws
2. thunderfire cannons
3. land raiders filled with said mixed assault termies
4. VINDICATORS

I seriously don't get the problem with assault terminators. You shoot and charge them with boyz, they die. Am I missing something?

Jidmah wrote:You shoot and charge them with boyz, they die.

The ultimate Orky philosophy.

you shoot and assault termies
assault termies shoot (1 might die if lucky) then assault (lightning claws that are reroll to hit and would kill most of the boys, I attack dun scratch anything, the TH/SS termies kill more then I break and run away.

mixed assault termies with a chaplan murdurize me no matter what i do

Dodgywop wrote:

Cozzy215 wrote:That is part of the problem: I don't know the ork rules very well. As far as the list goes I honestly don't know I know he had dreads and that is what took out my termies, I know that there were 4 of them, I don't know for sure if he was having them counted as a squad but I do know that for the purpose of combat resolution that was how they were treated (meaning all 4 were attacking at 1 time instead of 4 separate combats).

Now that you mention it, and looking at the GW site at the kan models, the 3 i thought were dreds were actually kans.

Hmm. Still doesn't seem right.

7 walkers total.

All of these walkers count towards a Heavy Support slot on the FOC.

We know 3 of them were Kans. This takes 1 Slot.
Then 2 more Slots for the Looted Wagons

Now all 3 are full.

We still have 4 walkers unaccounted for. Even if he had 2 Big Meks taking 2 Dreds, that leaves 2 more walkers that can't be in the list.

SO....You may want to find out exactly what he took, because at this point it sounds like the game was an uphill battle from the beginning.

Anyway,

The info I gave you above still holds true for dealing with Ork infantry. As for the walkers, Lascannons and Melta are always a good decision.

It might be doable.....

example.
3 Kans - 1 heavy slot
3 Kans - 1 heavy slot and 1 troop if Big Mek taken
1 Looted Wagon - 1 heavy slot
1 BattleWagon - dedicated transport if he took a small group of nobs. (there was no mention of nobs, but I'm just thinking through the possibilities.)
**Another Dread could have been taken if he had a second Big Mek.

Outside of these options it seems unlikely that the list was legal.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Jidmah wrote:I seriously don't get the problem with assault terminators. You shoot and charge them with boyz, they die. Am I missing something?

Nope. Seems legit to me. That is the strategy I use. That is how to be an Ork Warboss 101.....whatever is in front of you gets a load from the shoota and then Waaaagh. Marines are bad news, but if I'm rolling 20 or 30 deep and catch them on the assault it is not going to be a smooth day for the Terminators.....there will be some bumps.

zman111 wrote:you shoot and assault termies
assault termies shoot (1 might die if lucky) then assault (lightning claws that are reroll to hit and would kill most of the boys, I attack dun scratch anything, the TH/SS termies kill more then I break and run away.

mixed assault termies with a chaplan murdurize me no matter what i do

About 5 Models with 3 attacks each and WS4/S4 are not going to kill 20 boyz. More like six, taking rerolls into account. And the nob gets to kill one or two, too. Even if your entire unit of boyz dies, just toss the next one at them - it's not like those terminators are cheaper than boyz.

And for the chaplain, just move the nob in base contact with it and instant-death it.

zman111 wrote:you shoot and assault termies
assault termies shoot (1 might die if lucky) then assault (lightning claws that are reroll to hit and would kill most of the boys, I attack dun scratch anything, the TH/SS termies kill more then I break and run away.

mixed assault termies with a chaplan murdurize me no matter what i do

Ahh the joys of cleansing the xenos

The problem with Orks is that you can't assault those pesky TH/SS Terminators that sit safely in their Land Raiders.

They assault you.

DX3 wrote:The problem with Orks is that you can't assault those pesky TH/SS Terminators that sit safely in their Land Raiders.

They assault you.

I agree. This has always been a frustration point for me. But as with all things you learn to adapt your plans to deal with new threats or permenant ones like a Land Raider love. I typically don't have trouble with Raiders as I use Kans and Dreads like it is going out of style.

What is a bigger issue for me are Rhinos rolling up on my flank once I get in tight on the Marine Formations and dumping out Tact Squads to double tap my dudes. This is typically not enough to kill a mob of boys, but it is annoying. Typically, this leads to my slaughtering a Tac Squad or two, but the end result is a mained or even fully destroyed boy Mob.

The disappointment for me is that with all the metal stuff that Orks attach to their vehicles why is it not more "landraider like?" Obviously, it isn't going to have access to all the neat toys that the marines do, but it should at least be AV14 all the way around.

Just curious.. How valid is tank shocking a mob of boyz?

Well, if they are over 11 boys don't they auto pass the moral check due to mob rule?

Also, if you're packing a Nob with a power klaw depending on the vehicle I would probably death or glory that tank. Again, depending on what you're hitting it with.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Well, if they are over 11 boys don't they auto pass the moral check due to mob rule?

Also, if you're packing a Nob with a power klaw depending on the vehicle I would probably death or glory that tank. Again, depending on what you're hitting it with.