Nobzey wrote:I guess your biggest worry is a Space Wolf Player jawing your Tervigons. Also instead of gargoyles would you try Broodlords? Do you think they are worth their price?
I have tried them at an
RTT. Between hoods and the lack of reliability in the psychic abilities I don't think they are worth it. I would rather run more stealers. Obviously not a huge test, but that was my findings after using two in three rounds.
haizelhoff wrote:I'd keep to two squads of genestealers. It is true that they are more likely to finish off opponents in one combat phase, but a good player shouldn't have any trouble with move+fleet+charge in ensuring that only a couple of genestealers attack in the first round of combat. Why I believe you should take two broods is, that you have two tervigons. You'd rather have fnp on all your genstealers, instead of always giving your opponent at least one unit that he can torrent away. As large squads as possible ensure that you get the most out of catalyst.
I rarely seem to get catalyst onto the stealers. I find it is better practice to put onslaught on my hive guard to prevent tanks from having their way with my army. If I ran three units, typically there is not enough terrain for them all thus one would be either behind the gargoyles or outflanking if that seems favorable in the round. It is a good point about not giving them a clear target. How do you get your hive guard into range without onslaught?
haizelhoff wrote:Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, about the bad matchups. Stealer shock with hiveguard and tervigons was originally invented as a counter for mech ig in the etc (or that is when it became a netlist). Against IG stealers with fnp can survive through much of the ig torrent and rend it's vehicles to dust. Worth trying a couple of test games but that shouldn't be a bad matchup. Deathwing can be a real pain, but I would just try to pick him off one squad at a time. Space wolves have many of the tools to beat nids, and SW is one of the worst matchups imo. Just try and stuff your fnp genestealers down his face and force him to react to you. Use your gargoyles to attack long fangs etc.. Best of luck.
As a counter for mech
IG do people use outflank to get at their castle (for when there is no officer of the fleet) or do they stick with infiltrating? Also that is a good point on gargoyles, they are a great way to shut down long fangs on turn two.
ruminator wrote:Tervigons I am strating to run with scything talons (or even crushing claws) as they tend to get into CC every game. You will often want to use them and the gants to ensure the hive guard don't get tied up in CC themselves.
I have used scything talons in the past, but I find it hard to justify the points for crushing claws.
ruminator wrote:Genestealers I am moving towards more broods of less numbers. Toxin sacs seem worth it, but not scything talons as they have tons of attacks that hit on at least 3s anyway. Reroll to wound is better as that increases the chance to rend. Have you thought about say 4 broods of 8? I am finding that large broods tend to kill their first target in one turn and are then isolated and shot up in the opponents next turn. Smaller broods mean lesser losses if this still happens and sometimes also results in the combat lasting 2 turns. For bigger opponents you can always assault with 2 squads....
How do you deploy when you run many small squads?
ruminator wrote:Gargoyles seem an extravagence in this list - nothing else here moves 12" and you spawn gants for free which do the same job. More points for the stealers I feel...
Dual trygons I like and with no +1 reserves I agree that walking on is the best route. I've tried biovores and never really found them to earn their points back. Problem is that tourneys do seem to be fairly mech heavy so the biovores have little/no targets early on. If you do hit say an ork horde, with spacing and saves they are probably only killing 4-5 a turn between them - the free gants can do more than this. Another reason I would run AG/TS on at least one tervigon to give you some anti-horde.
For the points saved, I would maybe look at a unit of 4 raveners with rending claws. They work well with trygons as they can come in behind them and so can't be seen and then get their 12" charge move.
What issues did you find with biovores? While mech can make things hard, if I am not popping open a transport for them early in the game I think I have bigger issues coming than a lack of targets.
The hope with gargoyles is Tervigon cover, which gants can't do. I also don't have to worry about them slowing everything with a bad run roll since they move 12".
I have found raveners to not earn their points back as they don't score enough wounds. Not to mention the instant death issues.
