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So I started out playing the Warhammer 40k video games, then moved on to the books, and I've finally taken the next step and bought some of the models. I haven't gone so far as to buy a Codex or the rule book, I'm just building and painting right now but I still have some questions because it seems that not everything is play legal unless we go by agreed upon house rules. This brought up some questions for me because I eventually want to play but I want to make sure I have an army that is capable of being played. For example, before I learned some of the rules I bought a box of Grey Knight terminators and regular space marine models, which I guess I can't play together. I also bought some close range terminators and built one with a lightning claw and storm shield. So to try and avoid these issues in the future I had some questions that I would really appreciate any help with. Also, I guess I'll be playing as one of the Space Marine chapters since I love space marine dreadnoughts. I have 4 dreadnoughts already and 3 in the mail from ForgeWorld.

1. What makes a good HQ unit? Should I have a chapter master or can I turn one of my units into a chapter master? Will my chaplain with a jump pack work just as well?
2. If I choose a chapter master like Pedro Kantor of the Crimson Fists, does that mean I can't use the Ultramarine Tyranic War Vets?
3. Can I use the Damned Legionnaires with different chapter units? And what about the Furioso Dreadnought and Stormraven Gunship?
4. Is a made up chapter, lets say "the Emperor's Bronies" , just as competitive as an established chapter like the ultramarines or dark templars?
5. any other comments would be a great help

Here is what I have so far:
1 Ironclad dreadnought, 1 Venerable dreadnought, 1 regular dreadnought, 1 Furioso dreadnought
5 close combat terminators, 5 devastator marines, 5 grey knight terminators, a Space Marine command squad
1 Emperor's Champion, and 1 chaplain with a jump pack

Thanks again, this community has been a big help to me and I really appreciate any help for a new player just getting started.

If you're at all serious about getting into 40k, I suggest getting the Assault on Black Reach starter kit--it comes with 10 Tactical Marines, a Space Marine Captain, a Dreadnought, 5 Terminators, and a pocket-sized rulebook, all for $100, plus sales tax. There's quite a few Ork models included as well, so if you find an Ork player who's looking for more Orks (they usually are), you can do a swap and double your haul.

Even if you're not interested in AoBR, buy the core rulebook and the Space Marine codex--all our advice will be useless without it.

1. Chapter Masters themselves are kind of a waste. They get a cool sounding orbital bombardment ability, but you have to stand still to use it. You want your HQs in hand to hand quickly as possible generally, and it's kind of a waste. Take a captain, give him a power sword or a relic blade and stormshield, and have him lead the charge. A chaplain is also an HQ choice, and can be good if attached to a squad - his big advantage is buffing the charge for a squad, so attach him to some assault Marines if he's got a jump pack.

2. The Ultramarine Tyrannic War Veterans are just models of Marines with bolters. They don't have any specific rules, but would best be used as Sternguard since they're obviously veterans. That said, there are no restrictions on named characters - the justification is that while Pedro Kantor himself is not in the Ultramarines, they might have a captain with similar equipment and expertise. You can use Pedro's model, or a model with similar equipment that you build yourself to represent him. Converting other characters to be in your army or thinking them up from scratch is a lot of fun!

3. Legion of the Damned can be used in a Codex: Space Marines army. They look awesome but aren't very good at all. You can not use the Furioso Dreadnought or Stormraven Gunship unless you're using Codex: Blood Angels. Although they share a lot of units with Codex: Space Marines, they are for all intents and purposes a completely different army.

4. There's nothing stopping you from painting cutiemarks on every Marine and calling them Rainbow Dash's Furious Crusade. The color schemes and chapters in the codex are just suggestions for canon armies. You can come up with your own and use whatever codex you like to represent them.

5. General comments: You can only use one codex for an army, no mixing and matching between different books. Start with Codex: Space Marines, as it's the best all around codex, and the easiest to work with. You need a minimum of two troops and an HQ to start. Looking at what you have, you actually need basic tactical squads or scout squads to legally play. buy the Space Marine battleforce:
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440270a&prodId=prod1060108
You'll get a tactical squad and a rhino for them to ride in, another 5 Marines which you can add onto your devastator squad for a 10 man squad or just build as their own small unit, 5 scouts to outflank your enemy, and 5 assault Marines for the Chaplain to lead. Right now you have 5 Elites choices, and you can only use three in a given army. It's good to have options though! The Emperor's Champion could stand in as a Space Marine captain, as he's a fairly commanding looking figure, and if you take him you can legally take a command squad.

I could keep going on, but the best advice I can give is to just buy the codex. It will tell you what's legal, what you have to take, what you're allowed to take, and so on.

I know you said you haven't bought a Codex, yet... i suggest against this the Codex will help you understand the army... the first mistake of most players is to play the game without "feeling" where their heart lies. The Codex will give you great laughs and pride in your army as you learn about them in game and out of game but more than anything it helps you comprehend what the heck the game is all about. I would never suggest searching to pirate but if you have so many models you may want to make sure what you are investing into.

The Assualt on Black Reach box is a great investment as well, it will help you and a friend get started. My suggestion is to ask whoever you buy your models from to either help show you a game or help you demo one as that is honestly the best way to learn. We could throw terms at you like invulerable save, armor save, cover save, leadership test, weapon skill, wound allocation, regrouping, tank shocking, and infilitrate but none of this will make a lick of sense until you can dedicate 1-2 days playing a demo, looking over the rule books and knowing if you want to play that army or not. Most players go through 1-3 armies before finding exactly what they want, many players love the fluff or stories of a certain army but find themselves preferring the tactics of others, or vice versa of course.

Lastly, it's a great game pretty fun and try to remember that it's just a game as well no need to get super competitive for now try and get in touch with other players to help hold your hand for faster understanding of rules and welcome aboard if you find your flow you will be very glad you started the hobby.

Glad to see annver space marine has come to challenge da orks some day... un fail!

First of lets deal with 5:
First of, I wish to thank you for actually seeking help. Too many come in and basically scrap the rules once you get to the table on a count of things like "space marines are best" and so on.

If you give me a pm and few days to scramble up my codex I'll give you a pretty good hand with things such as what you can use and what would be at least somewhat effective. Don't be afraid to pm me or make more question topics. It is an ignorant man that requires help but only a fool that refuses it when needed and if you belive me wrong on any points, feel free to figure it out by asking others or reading the codex

Second, Brother SRM is WRONG. There's no other way of putting it and I HATE to use language like this but there is no other way of putting it, though he's probably a better painter than I will be for QUITE some time.

For one there ARE special rules for tyranic war veterans, amongst which is the ability to use krak grenades in close combat against tyranids. They're described in the UM codex I belive. They do look basically the same though.

There is also a rule (though I'm unsure if it's still valid or mentioned in the newer rulebooks) that claimed you CAN have a mixed army. Not too mixed but say you have a total of 50 marines on the table, if 1 squad of say 8 was dark angels instead of ultramarines this was\if leagal (again i'm not sure how many you could take or if those rules are still valid). This was so that for example a Sisters of Battle army could join with or "take command" of their lessers like a few squads of guardsmen.

A made up chapter is just as effective because they will go under "counts as" any chapter codex you use. I urge gyou to make your own or at least give them your special own pain job. We see enough Ultramarines

House rules are whatever you make them. That's why they're called HOUSE rules. They're not official, do not expect or demand them in a different club\shop and try not to go bananas with them because that is certainly no guarantee but if house rules permits you to field an army of ork models and play them as if they were space marines you can (but thinking about it is enough to give me and everyone else a headache)

As for HQ, you don't have to but a growing trend and a strong choice is to let a special character be the HQ. Two examples I can think of is Bjorn the Fellhanded. A living relic that has been alive since the Primarch commanded the space wolves. A living relic with a 5\6 chance to win an invoulnerable throw and he's also a dreadnaught which is why I suggest him to you.

If you want to get up close and personal there's an assault captain called Shrike of the Raven Guard. You might like him very well. here's a GW link
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?prodId=prod1060117

I did a quick search and here's an army builder and some other tools. do NOT mistake them for being "as good as" a codex though.

http://www.ultramarines.nl/download.htm

do some googling around and drop by your local shop and pick up a codex, leaf through it and read a bit to help you make up your mind. Never mind the statiscs looking rules at first and focus on the "trademarks" of the chapter like the special characters. This is for one purpose only: to help you choose an army.

Just remember: If you DO pirate a codex, you'll still need to buy one. It's very impractical and strange to bring a laptop to a game to have the rules. It's also harder to look up things quickly and printing one out will give you near the same costs in a paper and ink. Better to have the original.

hope some of this helps

I guess I'll have to go all in and get a codex and rule book. I'll probably get AOBR since that seems like the best bang for my buck while getting myself everything I need to play. I'm not sure which codex I should get though. Having Bjorn the Fellhand as my HQ sounds awesome but would that mean I have to run the space wolf codex or could I use him with the regular space marine codex since he is a special character? Could I turn a regular dreadnought into an HQ unit?
Part of the reason I have held off on buying a Codex is I don't want to get the wrong one or feel pigeon-holed into a set of figures that I don't find visually or tactically interesting.

Thanks again for all your input. It really helps.

Hey welcome!

I'm just starting out too, but what I recommend like everyone else is buy a starter kit and find your local Games Workshop.

I planned on piecing my army together and using a downloaded copy of the rule book/codex, well Games Workshop didn't like that idea so I spent $150 buying a rulebook, codex templates n dice, when I coulda just spent $100 on the starter kit and got some models too.

If you stop by the your local store they can explain things a little better hands on, probably even play a game with ya so you can get a feel for things.

Dantanius wrote:First of lets deal with 5:
First of, I wish to thank you for actually seeking help. Too many come in and basically scrap the rules once you get to the table on a count of things like "space marines are best" and so on.

If you give me a pm and few days to scramble up my codex I'll give you a pretty good hand with things such as what you can use and what would be at least somewhat effective. Don't be afraid to pm me or make more question topics. It is an ignorant man that requires help but only a fool that refuses it when needed and if you belive me wrong on any points, feel free to figure it out by asking others or reading the codex

Second, Brother SRM is WRONG. There's no other way of putting it and I HATE to use language like this but there is no other way of putting it, though he's probably a better painter than I will be for QUITE some time.

For one there ARE special rules for tyranic war veterans, amongst which is the ability to use krak grenades in close combat against tyranids. They're described in the UM codex I belive. They do look basically the same though.

There is also a rule (though I'm unsure if it's still valid or mentioned in the newer rulebooks) that claimed you CAN have a mixed army. Not too mixed but say you have a total of 50 marines on the table, if 1 squad of say 8 was dark angels instead of ultramarines this was\if leagal (again i'm not sure how many you could take or if those rules are still valid). This was so that for example a Sisters of Battle army could join with or "take command" of their lessers like a few squads of guardsmen.

A made up chapter is just as effective because they will go under "counts as" any chapter codex you use. I urge gyou to make your own or at least give them your special own pain job. We see enough Ultramarines

House rules are whatever you make them. That's why they're called HOUSE rules. They're not official, do not expect or demand them in a different club\shop and try not to go bananas with them because that is certainly no guarantee but if house rules permits you to field an army of ork models and play them as if they were space marines you can (but thinking about it is enough to give me and everyone else a headache)

As for HQ, you don't have to but a growing trend and a strong choice is to let a special character be the HQ. Two examples I can think of is Bjorn the Fellhanded. A living relic that has been alive since the Primarch commanded the space wolves. A living relic with a 5\6 chance to win an invoulnerable throw and he's also a dreadnaught which is why I suggest him to you.

If you want to get up close and personal there's an assault captain called Shrike of the Raven Guard. You might like him very well. here's a GW link
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?prodId=prod1060117

I did a quick search and here's an army builder and some other tools. do NOT mistake them for being "as good as" a codex though.

http://www.ultramarines.nl/download.htm

do some googling around and drop by your local shop and pick up a codex, leaf through it and read a bit to help you make up your mind. Never mind the statiscs looking rules at first and focus on the "trademarks" of the chapter like the special characters. This is for one purpose only: to help you choose an army.

Just remember: If you DO pirate a codex, you'll still need to buy one. It's very impractical and strange to bring a laptop to a game to have the rules. It's also harder to look up things quickly and printing one out will give you near the same costs in a paper and ink. Better to have the original.

hope some of this helps

Err... I think you're mistaken.

Tyrannic War Veterans aren't a proper unit in the latest Space Marine Codex. They were in the previous Codex, but not anymore. The models work well as Sternguard, though.

Also, the "allies" rule which you referred to has completely bitten the dust. It is no longer a rule, it is no longer allowed in the rulebook, and the last remnants of it died altogether with the Witch Hunters Codex when Codex: Sisters of Battle was released in August and September's White Dwarf issues last year. The Emperor, may they find peace by his side, felt the deaths of literally thousands of Sisters of Battle as they were shelved when their owner's allied Sisters of Battle/Imperial Guard armies were invalidated altogether.

Also, please note that Bjorn the Fell-handed is a Space Wolves-specific unit.

I think the first thing to do is to figure out where you want to head with this. Do you want to just goof around with some buddies, do you want to try to recreate battles from stories you read, do you want to try to get into it competitively, or still just not at all sure?

Next, I really suggest starting small either way. Please answer, and I'll try to check in again and help out (as I am sure others will too).

Fearspect wrote:I think the first thing to do is to figure out where you want to head with this. Do you want to just goof around with some buddies, do you want to try to recreate battles from stories you read, do you want to try to get into it competitively, or still just not at all sure?

Next, I really suggest starting small either way. Please answer, and I'll try to check in again and help out (as I am sure others will too).

I just want to be able to go down to my local Games Workshop and play a game with the people there and make some new friends. I don't care if I'm good but I want to make sure what I bring to the table is allowable and not too terrible. I don't want to buy a bunch of different units to find out later that they can't be played together.

I want to have fun mostly both playing the game and building/painting the models.

I guess I'll have to go all in and get a codex and rule book. I'll probably get AOBR since that seems like the best bang for my buck while getting myself everything I need to play. I'm not sure which codex I should get though. Having Bjorn the Fellhand as my HQ sounds awesome but would that mean I have to run the space wolf codex or could I use him with the regular space marine codex since he is a special character? Could I turn a regular dreadnought into an HQ unit?
Part of the reason I have held off on buying a Codex is I don't want to get the wrong one or feel pigeon-holed into a set of figures that I don't find visually or tactically interesting.

If you didn't know, the Assault on Black Reach set comes with a mini-rulebook. It contains the full rules for the game, laid out exactly the same as in the expensive main rulebook, but it trims out the pages of lore, photo galleries of models, and hobby information. It is literally just a rulebook. It's also softcover, and significantly smaller in all three spatial dimensions, with the text and images shrunk to fit - my mom has trouble reading it, but I have no issues at all.