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Are the White Scars a codex-adhering chapter? As in do they follow the codex except the obvious they are all mounted on bikes,jump packs or land speeders.

I believe they adhere to the CA, but with a few exceptions.

They most certainly are. Also they are not all on bikes, landspeeders and jump packs. They still have tactical squads and devestator squads. They just favour the faster style of attack and so use them more!

Yes the White Scars follow the teachings of Guilliman and the Codex Astartes. Obviously there are going to be some differences though as they would also rely on the teachings of their own Primarch.

Edit: When in doubt, Lexicanum is a good source for information:

Post-Heresy

After the Horus Heresy, the White Scars adopted the Codex Astartes and the Legion was divided into several Chapters.

In order to contain the outlaws, renegades and aliens that dwell within the Maelstrom, Roboute Guilliman ordered the surrounding systems to be reinforced. The White Scars were tasked with the main responsibility of securing the area from their homeworld.5 p-7

Why is this even a poll.

White Scars are codex, through and through.

They do not use Dreadnoughts, at all; and they have a single company that is entirely bike based. Other than that they are fairly normal. They use Rhinos, the have devastator units, they have scouts, and yes if they have to they will actually walk instead of riding something.

They are organised by CA for the most part, they just have slightly different companies organisation wise

Index Astartes states that they have no devestator squads or dreadnoughts.

They use vehicles infrequently and when they do they are stripped down, souped up versions.

They have veteran assault squads who all carry power weapons and refractor fields.

Company captains are allowed to organise their company, pretty much however they want.

Those are some pretty major deviations,

I made this a poll as I was arguing with someone about his and they said that they would only listen to me if I showed them a poll with results like this one.

I think you'd do better showing him Index Astartes vol 1, most of the posters above are wrong (e.g. devastator squads)

"Squads are then organized into brotherhoods, units which are roughly equivalent in size to a codex company, though on average slightly smaller.

The remainder of the chapter is organized slightly differently to most codex chapters, due to the higher proportion of bike squads and land speeder squadrons. The white scars preferred fighting style does not allow them the use of as many heavy weapons as other chapters and as a result they have no devastator squads. Their reliance on fas moving fire support also means that most tanks are too slow for the white scars, and those they do have are stripped down versions that can keep up with the rest of the army. Dreadnoughts are not employed by the white scars"

There's lots more - it's worth a read.

They're definitely divergent but not as much as the Wolves or Templars.

They are sized basically the same, 1000ish marines, but they dont use anything that isn't extremely fast. They are the 1980's surfer bros of 40k

Veldrain wrote:White Scars are codex, through and through. They do not use Dreadnoughts, at all; and they have a single company that is entirely bike based. Other than that they are fairly normal. They use Rhinos, the have devastator units, they have scouts, and yes if they have to they will actually walk instead of riding something.

Scott-S6 wrote:I think you'd do better showing him Index Astartes vol 1, most of the posters above are wrong (e.g. devastator squads)

"Squads are then organized into brotherhoods, units which are roughly equivalent in size to a codex company, though on average slightly smaller.

The remainder of the chapter is organized slightly differently to most codex chapters, due to the higher proportion of bike squads and land speeder squadrons. The white scars preferred fighting style does not allow them the use of as many heavy weapons as other chapters and as a result they have no devastator squads. Their reliance on fas moving fire support also means that most tanks are too slow for the white scars, and those they do have are stripped down versions that can keep up with the rest of the army. Dreadnoughts are not employed by the white scars"

There's lots more - it's worth a read.

They're definitely divergent but not as much as the Wolves or Templars.

Agreed. The Index Astartes entry is the biggest source of information on them so far. Obviously, it's written for 3ed 40k, and portrays them as significantly divergent, though not as much as Space Wolves.

The latest book portrays them as slightly more Codex - but a lot of their 'deviations' could easily be explained as part of a Codex chapter.

- Veteran Bike Squads could easily be their 'Vanguard' section, equipped with Bikes instead of Jump Packs. This would still be 'Codex', and carry power weapons.
- An entire Bike Company would of course be their Assault Reserve company, equipped with Bikes instead of Jump Packs, and still be 'Codex'
- A Codex chapter doesn't have to have Dreadnoughts, and can choose what Vehicles to employ.

The only real difference, therefore, is their lack of Devastator squads. Of course, since you can give your Bike Squads two special weapons AND take a heavy attack bike, then it's not hard to imagine that their 'devastator' squads are just mounted on Bikes.



EDIT - Oh, and of course Jaghatai Khan was one of the Primarchs that supported Guilliman's introduction of the Codex Astartes against Dorn, Russ and Vulkan. So you'd think they would be quite supportive of it.

So, I voted yes. Since I think their 'deviations' are actually pretty minor.

ArbitorIan wrote:The latest book portrays them as slightly more Codex - but a lot of their 'deviations' could easily be explained as part of a Codex chapter.

Veteran assault squads with refractor fields?

Scott-S6 wrote:

ArbitorIan wrote:The latest book portrays them as slightly more Codex - but a lot of their 'deviations' could easily be explained as part of a Codex chapter.

Veteran assault squads with refractor fields?

Ok, apart from the Refractor Fields...

Let's just call them 'tiny, rubbish storm shields'

They are a codex adhering chapter to the best of my knowledge, definitely more codex adhering than the Dark Angels.

Generally, yeah.

riverhawks32 wrote:They are a codex adhering chapter to the best of my knowledge, definitely more codex adhering than the Dark Angels.

But the Dark Angels aren't REALLY that Divergent either. It's only the Deathwing and Ravenwing that are different, and equipping your first company in Terminator Armour doesn't exactly ignore the Codex. It's only really the Ravenwing which goes against Codex organisation.

EDIT

Oh, and I suppose colour schemes and squad marking placement - but do we call a chapter which use slightly different colour coding 'divergent'? White Scars certainly do, Dark Angels do, but then so do Blood Angels and Iron Hands...

ArbitorIan wrote:

Scott-S6 wrote:

ArbitorIan wrote:The latest book portrays them as slightly more Codex - but a lot of their 'deviations' could easily be explained as part of a Codex chapter.

Veteran assault squads with refractor fields?

Ok, apart from the Refractor Fields...

Let's just call them 'tiny, rubbish storm shields'

And the souped up vehicles?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ArbitorIan wrote:But the Dark Angels aren't REALLY that Divergent either. It's only the Deathwing and Ravenwing that are different, and equipping your first company in Terminator Armour doesn't exactly ignore the Codex. It's only really the Ravenwing which goes against Codex organisation.

This is the question - how divergent do you need to be to be divergent?

I mean, BA are supposed to be codex through-and-through despite having so many landraiders that they can afford to launch them into battle, extra fast vehicles and special vehicles (stormraven) and variants (Baal, Furioso) and weapons (Infernus, angelus boltgun, magna grapple, etc) that they keep to themselves. They also have librarians that don't run the library (chaplains do that, apparently).

If BA can be excused that and keep their Codex-Compliant certificate (iso:40,000?) then WS should be able to as well.

Of course, it does seem that the only real concern re codex-compliance is strength. The whole point of the reformation was to break up the legions which is why the Wolves and Templars get hassle - by being significantly larger it makes them dangerous. As long as a chapter keeps their strength down they can get away with a lot of organisational quirks, it would seem.