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Modified from my origional post thanks to the feed back!
I'm currently looking for advice on army lists as I'm looking for a decent setup to use in a 2000pt league that will be followed by a friendly comp, however I'm fairly new to this fantasy warhammer rule set (having played it last about 5-6 years ago) And entirely new to skaven.



Altered list: In this list I've opted to go for something a bit heavier, laying back on the weapons teams the previous army had and leaving that element to the larger war machines as an alternative to having a larger stormvermin unit accompanying a grey seer using the shadow magnet trinket to help them get up the board. I'm not entirely sure how I feel about this list, but I am hoping to get some feed back on it

Changes: Rare choices are now legal instead of 5 cannons! (lol). Slaves have been granted slings and shields, though the overall numbers reduced (unsure about upgrading them at all, fairly costly). The points list is mildly over points and pruning is required to slim it properly down to 2000pts >.<

can only have 1 doomrocket not multiples

can only have 2 of the same rare choice@2000points

a bsb is a must have

10 stormvermin is a waste of points unless you want your opponent to win

if your gonna give slaves upgrades musician and slings(spears are a waste of points)

i run

Queek

2x lvl2 warplock engineers 1 with doomrocket

chieftan bsb 4+ward (must have for skaven bsb imo)

30 stormvermin full command queeks body guard

2 blocks of 40 clanrats full command shields

2 blocks 40 slaves with slings musician

2x doomwheel

mix of mortors and ratling guns(depending on how im feeling that day)

I didn't realise there was that restriction on how many of a rare choice you take, that already removes one army list from the run.
Didn't think to realise about the doom rocket limitations.

The idea for the storm vermin was to make a small elite bunker for the grey seer as opposed to a properly offensive unit.


With combat running in initiative order, slaves being initiative 4 which is good as or more then your average guy still I figured giving spears for use as a defensive meat shield allowing them to fight in multiple ranks would have been a rewarding bonus, never thought to give slings though its an interesting option having the stand and shoot as a charge reaction for when I don't attend to run re-rally, run.

>.< not the biggest fan of a doomwheel it still seems more risk then reward.

The 10 storm vermin w/storm banner does make a good caster bunker, and an easy way to squeeze in the storm banner.
With that being said, it's still a big risk as a single miscast from your grey seer could cause enough wounds to panic the storm vermin.

Also drop all the unit champs from every unit that won't have a hero in it. All the champ is for is to take a challenge, and die, sparing your hero for another round.
The doom wheel is great for taking out single targets like the steam tank and monsters. It’s also good for charging very small elite units. Like if someone took only 15-18 white lions/chaos warriors.
The impact hits/+1 for charging means if the wheel survives the combat you should come out on top, even you are forced to charge the front of a unit.

I've updated the list in the main post, thank you for the feedback so far I'm still playing with things and different approaches (have all the lists saved xD)

Latest version below, my biggest worry is having only 1 weapons team and a lack of versatility / special units.

I have tried slings on slaves and recommend against it. If you are running 5 wide and getting stand and shoot that is 10 shots that hit on 6. not worth it. If you are running 10 wide that is still 20 models that can shoot, double tap and you are looking for 6s followed by 4s. Not worth the points IMHO. Move the storm banner to your BSB, take the 60 points and add the razor standard to the storm vermin and then bump two units of slaves up to 45 each plus one or two extra slaves in the third unit. OR Drop the slings and trim the storm vermin to 33 and add a unit of 6 Gutter runners with poison and slings. OR even drop to 35 and add 5 Gutter Runners with poison and slings. There may be a few spare points in those last two I did quick math.

Okay, over what I've been advised so far I have a question, in order to try and increase my destructive capabilities.

How comp viable is the hell pit?
I find myself slightly faced with a situation where I'm not sure what would be better to take as the hell pit has the chance of becoming uncontrollable (as if it weren't already) and rushing my own units, as well as being focus fired down as a top priority.
While I'm aware of how much damage it can do and that having it focus'd isn't a bad thing some of the changes I've been making has made me question using it.

Alternatively to a pit beast, with the points allocation I have left I can hand it in for a doomwheel & Catapult which would ultimately grant me (more template weaponry) 2x Cannons, 1x Catapult and a Doomwheel (tho i'm still sceptical of the doomwheel I don't know how I will use it effectively tbh)

Another thing I have or am in the process of changing, was to go back to the idea of having my caster on foot, it seems painful squeezing in a screaming bell for 2000pts, 2500 I dont think I would mind - the same goes for a block strong unit of vermin to 'push' the thing. But at the same time as that, buffing the block to a unit size of 20 for 5x4 rank sake and placing the BSB in with them and the grey seer and granting the storm banner. The downside I can see is it makes that single unit the perfect 1 shot game ender if anyone artillaried that unit as they would take my BSB and greyseer/general. Would it be worth dividing these into 2 separate bunkers of 10, the points change wouldn't be that critical or is it not worth ultimately giving my caster a bunker and allowing them to be a more offensive unit with the BSB at there ranks.


Also I've stripped slaves right down to bare minimum now, seeing I can save 40pts a unit to remove there shields and slings, allows me to keep 60 clanrats (total) between 2 units instead, which also allows for more weapon teams.


From what I have seen / heard I want to make the most of these template weapons, I feel almost to taking a clan Skyre theme when it comes to painting up my army because of how much I value the weapons teams & war machines beyond the actual units that carry them xD

screaming bell is nice along with the hpa

with slaves the main thing is lots of rats for as few points as possible so shields or slings depending if you want to be shooty or not, if you want to be shooty drop the storm banner as it also affects your own units

for the engineer i highly recommend making him at least a lvl1 caster for warp lightning and a chanal attempt

play test it and see how i t works, kinda like it although would split a unit of 40 slaves into 2 units of 20 just to have redirect units and what is 40 points in the grand picture of a rat army (hint: they are slaves they serve a purpose to die while other units will live.... for another turn lol)



on a side note i play skaven for their unpredictable outcome when it comes to crazy stuff like doomwheels ratling guns and the like of witch i have had a roughly a 40% success rate mostly because im greedy and like to mass casualties nomatter the side it happens to be(mortors to enemy units locked in combat against slave epic fail for both sides ultimate win for the great horned one)

Here are my two Warptokens:

- at 2000pts, a Bell is indeed a tough buy. I'll usually give my Seer the Talisman of Preservation and a Dispel Scroll and call it a day.

- your BSB needs as much protection as he can get. I'll usually go with the Foul Pendant + Charmed Shield or the Armour of Destiny, depending.
I can never see a reason to give him a magic standard. The Stormbanner is arguably the best banner in the game, and I'd still go without it before I left my Chieftain so vulnerable.

- shields and spears together on Clanrats is almost always not worth it. One or the other is best.
Shields on Slaves is as close to never worth it as possible. 6 shields costs 3pts, one shield-slave costs 2.5pts, one in six parries actualy save. Against S3, shields are almost worth it, but you're usually still better off with more bodies.
Slings and/or spears can work, with a little Bless with Filth and/or Death Frenzy love, but again, you're spending points on specific solutions versus general ones.

- 5 giant rats + a packmaster run two wide (the "rat dart") is a I4 M6 unit with 6 attacks for 23pts. No one ever shoots it, and it can actually pose a serious threat to war machines, or at least tie them up.
Gutter Runners are also wicked good, but only if they've got Poison. Slings are more negotiable, but at 1pt/model, you'd be hard-pressed to convince me there's something else more important.

- Weapon Teams can be good, but you're better off with Warp Lightning Cannons every time. The catapult is underwhelming by comparison. If you've got enough points left in your Rares for a Cannon, get one. If you want more shooting after that, look to weapon teams, but only after.

- Doomwheels are mediocre. They're great against (really) small units and monsters, but they falter against anything else. The A-bomb is a really top-notch monster. Impact hits, Thunderstomp, and special attacks that (1) can threaten characters, (2) kill dudes and make him last longer or (3) kill lots of dudes, all on top of Regeneration. Awesome.

I imagine going spears would be the most beneficial option for the clanrats then, given 6+ward save isnt likely to make that big a difference, neither is light armor and a shield.


That just leaves my stormvermin in question, what to do with them, keep them as just a bunker for my BSB and put in another unit or bulk them to be an offensive unit


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Excuse the double post, this is what I have so far



With 88pts left over I can afford to give my stormvermin the banner but like was mentioned this would impact me as well, negatively as I'm using alot of weapons teams and the cannons etc. I don't really want to give too much to my greyseer seeing as theres a chance he may pop his own head ultimately anyway and the 3 warp tokens he already comes with are good enough for me for the points limit afaik.
Again the storm vermin are undecided. Only really being seen as a bunker unit, the only problem with that being that the grey seer being in the same unit as the BSB will make that unit an easy focus for 2 birds with one cannon ball. Debating reducing the bunker size down to 10 for the BSB and placing the grey seer in another unit, possibly clan rats with the warpfire thrower attatched.

Provided I do the above, 10man bunker, seer with clanrats it would open up 168pts for yet another unit of 30 clan rats and weapon team.

Most people go with shields on their Clanrats. Saving an additional 30% of your guys (armour and Parry) keeps them Steadfast longer, allowing the units that are actually good at killing stuff to do the work.

Small bunker units just don't seem to work in 8th. There's little to no small-arms fire, Line of Sight is so easy to establish, and magic can wipe such units off the board with ease. I'd keep your Seer and BSB in separate, decent-sized units.

Still going to suggest a big Ward save on your BSB and general. They're important, and they're easy points right now.

That's...a lot of weapon teams. I'd consider dropping some for some Gutter Runners, to take out war machines and such, and/or the Rat Dart or something a bit capable in CC beyond your small Stormvermin unit (no Stormbanner in this list, of course) and the A-bomb.

Skaven have a lot going for them now. You need a wide variety of tricks to do well.

Hmm, okay. I shuffled things around some, with advice from others. Formed the Clanrats into 40man units these each to house the general and BSB in seperate units. Slaves increased to 50 units +1 redirect unit of 20. I've altered the storm vermin to a unit of 20, dropped the excess unit of 20 clanrats and weapons team to do this and bolster the other clanrat units. I've also added an additional rat-dart giving me 2 of them now.

The problem with the invulnrable save is I can only afford to give one the save and it'l put me down 30pts unless I give it to the BSB and remove the world edge armor to grant a 5+ ward.

-------------------------------


Skaven Army List.

Content: 0 – Lord (240/500) Total: 240
1 – Heroes (194/500) Total: 194pts
2 – Core (1010/500+) Total: 1010pts
3 – Special (145/500) Total: 145pts
4 – Rare (415/500) Total: 415pts
Overall Total: 2004pts
Remaining: -4pts

LORD(s)
Grey Seer 240pts

HEROE(s)
Warlock Engineer 15pts
Lvl1 Wizard 50pts
Doomrocket 30pts

Cheiftan 45pts
Battle standard bearer 25pts
Worlds Edge armor 25pts
Shield 2pts
Halberd 2pts

CORE(s)
20 Stormvermin 70pts (optimal bunker 1)
Shields 20pts
Musician 4pts
Standard bearer 8pts
Clawleader 8pts
Poisoned Wind Mortar 65pts

40 Clanrats 120pts
Spears 20pts
Shields 20pts
Musician 4pts
Standard 8pts
Warpfire thrower 70pts

40 Clanrats 120pts
Spears 20pts
Shields 20pts
Musician 4pts
Standard 8pts
Ratling Gun 55pts

6 Giant rats 18pts (Rat dart unit)
Packmaster 8pts

6 Giant rats 18pts (Rat dart unit)
Packmaster 8pts

50 Slaves 80pts (5x10 Tarpit unit)
Musician 2pts

50 Slaves 80pts (5x10 Tarpit unit)
Musician 2pts

20 Slaves 40pts (4x5 redirect)
Musician 2pts


SPECIAL(s)
5 Poisoned Wind Globadiers 50pts
Bombardier 5pts
Deathglobe 25pts
Poisoned Wind Mortar 65pts

RARE(s)
Warp Lightning Cannon 90pts

Warp Lightning Cannon 90pts

Hell Pit Abomination 235pts


Unit Tallied: 239troops//3characters//2war machines//1monster//4weapon teams

Grey Seer – 1 (General)
Warlock Engineer – 1 (rocket/additional spell)
BSB – 1

Clanrats – 80 (x2 8x4/5x8 bunkers)
Slaves – 120 (4x10/5x8 Tarpit)
Stormvermin - 20 (Elite offensive unit)
Giant rats – 6+1 (Rat dart)
Giant rats – 6+1 (Rat dart)
Poisoned Wind Globadiers – 5 (armorbane)

Warp lightning Cannon – 2 (Hammer)
Hell Pit Abomination – 1 (Hammer)
Poisoned Wind Mortars – 2 (Minor hammer)
Ratling Gun – 1 (Minor Hammer)
Warpfire Thrower – 1 (Minor hammer)



Automatically Appended Next Post:
I've optimised and re-done the math for list two as it seemed to be a bit off, this has forced somewhat scaling down to 35clanrat groups, which is a fair medium I think between 30-40. I could have made them 40 but you'll see I've added to my characters a little and given the stormvermin a small gift, given there only a block of 20 there panic test may come much earlier then a 40 block when in combat so...

It's all there, I think this is the setup that I am going to go with. I've given my BSB a 5+ward, I've given the stormvermin an decent standard for the likely hood they break in combat and I've already increased my warlock engineers usefulness with a Warp-Energy Condenser and I believe all the math is in order.

The only decision now is more of a tactical standpoint, who/what character goes were.

You're not supposed to post individual point costs for units.
Just post a summary of the total cost of the unit.

As for your army list;
Globadiers are very expensive as you have them right now. Drop the champ/death globe.
As been said, clanrats are better for the points with spears or shields, not both. If you take spears, you don't get a parry save.
Grey seer could use some kit. Skalm is a very good buy for him, as is a ward save.
BSB could be better protected, but YMMV. A shield and halberd isn't need on the BSB though, again one or the other. The BSB won't be shot at by anything a shield could be used against, and you can't use the shield in CC with a halberd.

Comp for HPA isn't too bad. You'll never max comp with one in your army though.
However if comp is going to be a factor in your league, be ready for some low scores. Weapon teams may suck to skaven players, but most players rate them as a war machine, so your army is going be looked at like your packing 6 war machines and a HPA.

Well this league is the prerequisite basically to the warhammer world tournament in april I think it is. So I will have time to adjust whats needed and things. The idea behind the deathglobe, purely is just another nice template to kill with.

Armies that there will be at the event

Clan Eishin skaven
warlord (mixed clan) skaven
another skaven I don't know
my clan Skyre skaven
high elves
lizardmen
dark elves
and chaos

As for what will actually be present in the tournament I don't know, thats drawing people in from all over the UK from what I've heard and its basically a store V store, I just don't want to let my side down xD

I kinda feel the deathglobe will redeem its cost vs the chaos though, and the ability to tarpit a unit and hurl it into combat featuring slaves will allow me to maim heavily armored units in bulk.

I merely gave my bsb a shield as with high elves and dark elves (for which I know is featuring corsairs (with what weapons im not sure, potentially hand bows) and ranged troops) small arms fire will be a factor.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
In the most recent list I have removed the shields from the stormvermin.

Contemplating the clanrats but I'm unsure, theres a lot of Str3 in this league not including the chaos and lizardmen as well as I think theres likely to be empire as well (although theyll probably block halberds) So the 5+ clanrat save might not be such a big waste as there armor will only be being reduced by warmachines.

If your theme is skyre, I'd think about dropping the HPA for a pair of doom wheels.
Is it less effective? Yes, but it fits the theme better.
Plus the Zzap! will work pretty well against all the opposing HPAs.
Death-globadier works with a skyre theme, 'nuff said.
But taking it just to hose one army isn't worth it IMHO. If the WoC player shows up with Tz Chosen then the death globe still won't be a game winner for you. Curse of the Horned Rat on the other hand, will make Tz Warriors cry.

But it looks like you got things pretty well figured out. All that's left to do is get some play testing in.
Be sure to make some bat-reps too!

well as of the moment I have the HPA so I will give that the first run and see how it does, worst case I just buy 2 doom wheels and replace it, but seeing as I have it im going to give it a good trial running.

as for bar-reps xD id love too, I've never made one before so don't expect too much but once things get started I will deff look to put something up