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So basicly I encountered this problem in my game.

Lord with mindshakle scarabs fought a dreadnought.

So the rule says any model in base contact must pass 3D6 leadership.

So I know somewhere it says when tanks count as Ld 10 for all Leadership tests.

However I can't find where the rule for that is.

I know that is in the GK codex but is there FAQ for space marine that also says that.

SO can the walker take a leadership test.

No. The Dreadnought has no Leadership characteristic, and therefore cannot take the test.

Grey knights dreadnoughts are specified to only have a leadership value for the purpose of taking psychic tests.

So they do not have a leadership value proper and therefore do not suffer from minshackle scarabs.

The entry doesn't say 'infantry only'. It does say that the test is a Leadership test.

So ... this might actually work.

The Grog wrote:The entry doesn't say 'infantry only'. It does say that the test is a Leadership test.

So ... this might actually work.

It doesn't have to say 'infantry only', you cannot force a model to make a characteristic test on a characteristic it doesn't have.

ok got it

MSS works about as well on Walkers as it does on Rhinos, as they have the same Leadership.

Mind shackle scarabs works exactly the same on Walkers as it does on Rhinos, it doesn't work at all on either.

I agree that it does NOT work on walkers, but everybody keep in mind that in the BRB it states in the section based on characteristic tests that any model forced to take a characteristic test, but their stat is a 0 or - in that category automatically fails. Just thought i'd point that out.

And what is a walkers Ld? Here's a hint, it is not 0 or -.

tetrisphreak wrote:but everybody keep in mind that in the BRB it states in the section based on characteristic tests that any model forced to take a characteristic test, but their stat is a 0 or - in that category automatically fails. Just thought i'd point that out.

The underlined is not correct.

It states that " If a model has to take a test for one of its characteristics with a value of 0, it automatically fails."

So only if the stat is 0 does it auto fail, not -

It also states that - counts as 0. So the argument is circular. In this case it doesn't matter because the walker has no Ld statline at all, hence my first sentence that MSS do not work on walkers.

Yea, 0 counts as -.
Why they put that in 2 different places, I will never understand.

But The walker not having a LD is correct, so the scarabs can not effect it.

DeathReaper wrote:Yea, 0 counts as -.
Why they put that in 2 different places, I will never understand.

Perhaps because a 0 can be manipulated and a - cannot?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Pure speculation, mind you.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Pure speculation, mind you.

I think the OP's question is good and answered but for point of curiousity, is there actually any unit that even COMES Ld 0 or - ? I'm thinking the only time this happening is after an epic ass-whupping in combat.

Double one (insane heroism) allways succeeds in ld tests.

The Dragon wrote:I think the OP's question is good and answered but for point of curiousity, is there actually any unit that even COMES Ld 0 or - ? I'm thinking the only time this happening is after an epic ass-whupping in combat.

I don't think so... Ld 0 without any modifiers would have to mean that the model is functionally slowed. I mean, even Tyranids at least have instinct and Orks have ...whatever it is that motivates Orks.

Vasara wrote:Double one (insane heroism) allways succeeds in ld tests.

Err, no.

Double 1 automatically passes morale tests, not leadership tests, they aren't the same thing.

It would be quite possible to fail your MSS leadership test with a roll of 1, 1 & 6 if your models were Ld 7.

Edit: I had a massive brainfart. There is no excuse for the rubbish I originally posted here. I should never have got out of bed this morning...

automatonsleuth wrote:It might be worth pointing out that the Grey Knight FAQ V1.1 states that vehicles are unaffected by Mindshackle Scarabs, confirming what common sense suggests.

No it doesn't, at least not on the one GW produced, which was last updated several months before Necrons were released.

Avatar 720 wrote:

automatonsleuth wrote:It might be worth pointing out that the Grey Knight FAQ V1.1 states that vehicles are unaffected by Mindshackle Scarabs, confirming what common sense suggests.

No it doesn't, at least not on the one GW produced, which was last updated several months before Necrons were released.

You're completely correct, for some reason I decided that this was a discussion on whether Psykostroke Grenades worked on vehicles. My brain draws strange conclusions sometimes...