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Would you need to take instinctive behaviour tests if embarked in a building?

Would the Hive Tyrant be treated as regular infantery if teamed with Tyrant guard? Embarking, cover saves etc.
Example: Hive Tyrant with 2 Tyrant guards (infantry) gets shot, but shooter had to fire through a unit of gaunts. HT is a MC, but majority of unit is Infantry. Would the unit get coversaves?

IG-Sqroot wrote:1. Would you need to take instinctive behaviour tests if embarked in a building?

2. Would the Hive Tyrant be treated as regular infantery if teamed with Tyrant guard? Embarking, cover saves etc.
Example: Hive Tyrant with 2 Tyrant guards (infantry) gets shot, but shooter had to fire through a unit of gaunts. HT is a MC, but majority of unit is Infantry. Would the unit get coversaves?

1. I can only assume the Instinctive Behaviour test have to be taken, as no exception is provided.

2. Yes, the unit gets a coversave as the majority of models in the unit are indeed in cover.

IG-Sqroot wrote:Would you need to take instinctive behaviour tests if embarked in a building?

I would say no, as the embarked unit is removed from the table.

IG-Sqroot wrote:Would the Hive Tyrant be treated as regular infantery if teamed with Tyrant guard? Embarking, cover saves etc.

No, it is a mixed unit. Just because an MC joins the unit, it does not stop becoming an MC, and as such, the unit is governed by what all of its members can and can't do. The Hive Tyrant would not be able to embark in a building, for instance. However. . .

IG-Sqroot wrote:Example: Hive Tyrant with 2 Tyrant guards (infantry) gets shot, but shooter had to fire through a unit of gaunts. HT is a MC, but majority of unit is Infantry. Would the unit get coversaves?

. . .in this case, if the majority of the unit gets cover, then the Hive Tyrant gets cover too. So, if 2 of the Tyrant Guard were in Area Terrain and the Hive Tyrant was out in the open, the Hive Tyrant would still get a cover save.

puma713 wrote:

IG-Sqroot wrote:Would you need to take instinctive behaviour tests if embarked in a building?

I would say no, as the embarked unit is removed from the table.

Here's the wording;

"All unengaged Tyranid models that are not falling back or have gone to ground, must take a Leadership test at the start of their Movement phase."



Does the embarked unit get a Movement phase?
Yes, it does, and at the beginning of that it must take the test.



...

Steelmage99 wrote:

puma713 wrote:

IG-Sqroot wrote:Would you need to take instinctive behaviour tests if embarked in a building?

I would say no, as the embarked unit is removed from the table.

Here's the wording;

"All unengaged Tyranid models that are not falling back or have gone to ground, must take a Leadership test at the start of their Movement phase."



Does the embarked unit get a Movement phase?
Yes, it does, and at the beginning of that it must take the test.





...

The embarked unit is not on the table. What does it do if it fails? What does it do if it passes? How does it see if it is within range of a Synapse creature?

The rules from Buildings, page 79, BRB:

"Models entering a building are removed from the table."

If a unit is not on the table, I'd argue that it does not get a movement phase. After all, do you take Instinctive Behavior rolls for models that haven't come in from Reserves yet?

puma713 wrote:The embarked unit is not on the table. What does it do if it fails? What does it do if it passes? How does it see if it is within range of a Synapse creature?

The rules from Buildings, page 79, BRB:

"Models entering a building are removed from the table."

If a unit is not on the table, I'd argue that it does not get a movement phase.

You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave?

You measure to/from the building, just like if it was a vehicle.
If it fails, you either lurk or frenzy. If it passes, you do whatever you want - just like normal.
Are you trying to argue that they wouldn't get a shooting phase either? Cause, you know, they aren't on the table.

And when those silly marines get in their transports, they're also remove from the table. They shouldn't be moving or shooting either.

(you edited after I quoted)

After all, do you take Instinctive Behavior rolls for models that haven't come in from Reserves yet?

No, because the rules say that you're considered to be in Synapse while in reserve.

puma713 wrote:The embarked unit is not on the table... How does it see if it is within range of a Synapse creature?

You measure to its transport, just like any other unit that is embarked in a transport.

rigeld2 wrote:
You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave?

You measure to/from the building, just like if it was a vehicle.
If it fails, you either lurk or frenzy. If it passes, you do whatever you want - just like normal.
Are you trying to argue that they wouldn't get a shooting phase either? Cause, you know, they aren't on the table.

And when those silly marines get in their transports, they're also remove from the table. They shouldn't be moving or shooting either.

DeathReaper wrote:

puma713 wrote:The embarked unit is not on the table... How does it see if it is within range of a Synapse creature?

You measure to its transport, just like any other unit that is embarked in a transport.

Fair enough. As above.

rigeld2 wrote:(you edited after I quoted)

After all, do you take Instinctive Behavior rolls for models that haven't come in from Reserves yet?

No, because the rules say that you're considered to be in Synapse while in reserve.

Where does it say this? I can't find this.

puma713 wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:(you edited after I quoted)

After all, do you take Instinctive Behavior rolls for models that haven't come in from Reserves yet?

No, because the rules say that you're considered to be in Synapse while in reserve.

Where does it say this? I can't find this.

It might be in the FAQ - wherever it says that units arriving from Reserve are counted as being in Synapse when they arrive.

rigeld2 wrote:
It might be in the FAQ - wherever it says that units arriving from Reserve are counted as being in Synapse when they arrive.

It doesn't say that. It says that they don't have to test on the turn they come in.

So Tyranids need to be testing for IB from reserve. . .?

puma713 wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
It might be in the FAQ - wherever it says that units arriving from Reserve are counted as being in Synapse when they arrive.

It doesn't say that. It says that they don't have to test on the turn they come in.

So Tyranids need to be testing for IB from reserve. . .?

Sure. And they lurk or frenzy... until they come on the board. Which will have absolutely zero affect. It's essentially the same thing as being under Synapse - they just aren't Fearless (which is something I didn't notice until now - thank for correcting me on that).

rigeld2 wrote:

puma713 wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
It might be in the FAQ - wherever it says that units arriving from Reserve are counted as being in Synapse when they arrive.

It doesn't say that. It says that they don't have to test on the turn they come in.

So Tyranids need to be testing for IB from reserve. . .?

Sure. And they lurk or frenzy... until they come on the board. Which will have absolutely zero affect. It's essentially the same thing as being under Synapse - they just aren't Fearless (which is something I didn't notice until now - thank for correcting me on that).

Yeah, I was thinking at first that if you 'Lurk' in reserve, then you wouldn't be able to come on from reserve, since you can't move, and then would be destroyed. But I assume the FAQ ruling will override that, saying that you don't have to test on the turn you come in.

Would that mean that marines with rage would have to disembark and footslog towards enemies aswell?

Seems abit strange since nothing i've seen can affect embarked units. I can't even give orders to my own unit inside the same chimera as the commander ;-)

But, that said, I trust this forum quite alot and will play with taking the rolls for Instinctive behaviour inside buildings

Thanks for the replies

It depends - if the building has no firepoints then they would not need to disembark, as they would have no LOS to the enemy (assuming for a minute that we want Rage to ever do anytthing, and therefore we are checking LOS in the movement phase)

If they have fire points that cna "see" an enemy they would have to disembark in order to move closer to the enemy

I assume that if a lurking unit fails it "instictive behaviour" test, it would simply stay in the building. Correct?

I think they move to area terrain, which the building isnt, so they would disembark

Just read the codex:

codex wrote:"A unit that lurks may not move in the movement phase...if there are no enemies in the unit's line of sight or within range of at least one of its ranged weaponry, or if the unit has no ranged weaponry, it must instead run towards the nearest piece of area terrain, trying to move into it if possible."

Embarking/disembarking only takes place in the movement phase (with the exception of if the transport gets blown up). Since you can't disembark/embark during the shooting phase, the unit would just sit still in the building.