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Hey there Dakka

me and my friend group ( currently consists of me and 3-4 others) play 40k, and we love the backstory, fluff, setting, grimdark , the entire spectrum ( except the cost )

We also love RPG games, though we have never played anything like DnD, nothing like that.. I was looking into some RPG games, and came across Rogue Trader, Death Watch, Dark Heresy and Warhammer Fantasy Role-play.
Ive read though a number of threads and from what iv read , it sounds really quite indepth, but im not swayed by this, to survive is to perceiver! i shall tame the beast!

i love the sound of Rogue Trader, as i like the idea of the struggling hero's against enemies
I also like the idea of Death watch ( everyone loves Super human warriors, as do i, but i dont particuly like the idea of being OP )

Dark heresy and Warhammer Fantasy Role-Play i have looked at but not sure about at the moment.

I would most likly end up being GM , or DM, or how ever you put it as none of the others , in my experience, would take it seriously and they are quite competitive so, there would be a chance theyd "cheat" the rules

can anyone give me advice on how to start, as i have no experience in these games, and what the best course of action would be

Thanks for your time

I am biased but I will say DH and RT have the most depth and I'm also biased to say GMing a bunch of new players will be the hardest thing you'll do for a long long time. More so if you are also new at this.

^ What VikingScott said. Depth can also be a "bad thing", though, when the players do not take it seriously (as you said your group would) and are only interested in some quick and dirty fun.
In that case, Deathwatch may be best suited, in that it lends itself well for some mindless action, especially due to the superpowered (even for Space Marines!) player characters.

If you are unsure, however, I would recommend the "introductory adventures" offered on FFGs website. I think they have one for each of the 40k RPGs, and they include both a light set of their rules as well as a premade adventure for your group to play with, so you would learn the rules as well as if the game "feels right" for you and your group.

Thanks for the replies

Viking Scott:

I am biased but I will say DH and RT have the most depth

Well, i dont really mind the depth to them, yes i know it would be difficult, especially due to my non existent exp , but hey, gotta learn sometime right in order to get experience if i feel they are waaaay to complicated to start, i may drop some of the rules and just get the core rules needed to play the games, then build up from there.

GMing a bunch of new players will be the hardest thing you'll do for a long long time. More so if you are also new at this.

I understand that, and thanks for the heads up ill have to make it crystal clear to them if they dont nuckle down and try to learn, it wont go anywhere and will be pointless, also with a few tries under our belt, i feel we would be able to get the hang of it, and if its the hardest thing ill do, so be it i really want to get into these and if afew failed attempts are the only way learn, then im willing to try.



Lynata:

when i meant "not take it seriously" i mean if they were entrusted with power they would abuse it to get back at some of the other players , as i said, they are quite competitive, namly between two of them, its all freindly, but they have been known to try and slip under the radar to get an advantage .
the other two are perfectly fine, and like depth , though one tends to over exaggerate and come up with wild/hard to believe back stories , but that can be ironed out with practise.

thanks for the info about the "introductory adventures" , ill check it out




If i were to buy the book ( i have a family member in USA who can order it for me, as i live in the UK and dont typically deal with other currencies) , what would i have to get with it? do i have to purchase the dice etc needed? is there any other equipment id need ?

thanks for your time

Do whichever everyone wants.

For a rookie GM for any RPG, the biggest threat tends to be that players can take advantage of them. Don't let the players control the game.

The second threat is not letting the players do anything they want. The players need to drive the story.

Yes, these two concepts are contradictory.

Thanks for the advice

Balance:

Dont worry, ill control them with an iron fist ( well, not an "iron fist" but a hefty rulebook, and not exactly "control" but not bow down to them )

Of course ill let them do what they want, within reason of course, im not gonna let them say blow up the planet with their little finger because they feel like it ( though if they where a bad guy, that may be a story plot haha)

Lynata:

Ive looked on the site, but cannot seem to find it, if anyone know where i could find something like this please do tell, thanks

Ive not read anyrules, or anything like that, so im looking for some info. Im GM, what power do i actually hold? do i just tell the story and be the "rules" guy? im kinda getting the idea i give them 3 options, and they can choose which one they want, but warn them of what may happen in each situation? id like some examples if thats not too much to ask, i want to get a taster of what choices i get to use

thanks for your time

Mekboy_Rulk wrote:If i were to buy the book ( i have a family member in USA who can order it for me, as i live in the UK and dont typically deal with other currencies) , what would i have to get with it? do i have to purchase the dice etc needed? is there any other equipment id need ?

Yes! Dice. FFG's 40k RPGs use stuff like d5, d10 and d100, which isn't your average type of dice (meaning d6 or d20), so I would greatly recommend buying a couple of those.

d100 are used to roll ability tests including attacks, which means a player needs only one. d5 and d10 are used to roll weapon damage - you'd be okay with one per type as well, but some high-powered weapons or special tests take several of a kind, so if you don't mind the extra expenses I'd recommend buying more than one. d10's can also be used to substitute for a d100 when you simply roll two d10 and have one determine 1-10 and use the other for showing the steps of 10 (0, 10, 20, etc.), the result being a number between 1 and 100. This is actually better than using a single d100, as most dice of that type are somewhat hard to read, I imagine. If you want to spend as little money as possible, you can also substitute the d10 for d5 by simply dividing the result by 2.

tl;dr: My personal recommendation would be to get 2 d5 and 3 d10. One of the d10 should have a different colour for the purpose of determining the steps of 10 when rolling a d100 test.

Each of FFG's RPG lines (with exception of the still too-recent Black Crusade) also offers a sort of "Player's Handbook" with additional class options and equipment, which is very nifty to have. After the core rulebook, this is the next-important book you want to own, and in fact I recommend buying it right away as they are very useful (for the GM as well). For Dark Heresy it would be the "Inquisitor's Handbook", for Rogue Trader the "Into the Storm" and for Deathwatch "Rites of Battle".

Good luck and enjoy!

Thanks for the replies

Lynata:

Thanks, this really helps me get a better picture of what the games like thank you
With the dice front, ill get 2 d100, 2 d5, 2 d10s, of cause money permitting that way i have spares and if a player forgets one, they can lend it for the time.

I'll get the main rule book first, which will be around the end of this month ,( monies come rolling in then and give me time to contemplate before purchase ) my plan is to read through it, decipher some of the rules so the slight simpletons that can emerge in my friends personalities can understand it ( not that thier stupid, they just have some derp moments, mind my language*, as do i ) Im sure ill have quite allot of questions once I got it but I have some queries before then.


from the looks of what i have read there are damage charts, some sort of toughness charts. am i right in assuming these go together in order to "wound?" or inflict damage?
is it a "hit point" system? can factors such as broken limbs, wounds etc effect the PC characters? say a eye injury or a arm injury would impede combat, movement etc?

with weapons im assuming their would be damage modifiers , Armour piercing for instance?

The main thing is some GMs really do give players a little bit too much freedom... I consider this where 'player buy-in' is required. The players need to understand that sometimes the flashing neon 'ADVENTURE HERE!' sign is because the GM has some set pieces ready to go. Sometimes if players don't get this they'll waste an entire session trying to achieve goals the GM isn't ready or prepared for.

RPGs are 'loose' enough on the rules that everyone needs to accept that it's a consensual game.

Mekboy_Rulk wrote:from the looks of what i have read there are damage charts, some sort of toughness charts. am i right in assuming these go together in order to "wound?" or inflict damage?
is it a "hit point" system? can factors such as broken limbs, wounds etc effect the PC characters? say a eye injury or a arm injury would impede combat, movement etc?

Yes to all of that! Although injuries only occur after a character has lost all his hitpoints, which is perhaps not as realistic as the damage model used by GW's own Inquisitor RPG and lends itself to either having all characters 100% healthy or dead with little variance in-between, or at least being reduced to a lasting "debuff" from a fight where someone was incapacitated.

/tg/'s wiki has screenshots of the Critical Tables in Dark Heresy, in case you're curious. It also contains a rather humurous "sample combat" log:
http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Dark_Heresy

Mekboy_Rulk wrote:with weapons im assuming their would be damage modifiers , Armour piercing for instance?

Indeed. Most weapons have both a basic damage value as well as "Penetration", which is negating the target's Armour Protection but not bleeding over into actual wounds. Some also have special properties such as Toxic, Blast or Flame which, as you can imagine, may make them more powerful in some situations and less powerful in others. In essence, it's the same as with the weapons in the tabletop. Additional qualities to consider, however, are things like range, how many rounds a weapon can hold, or how long it takes to reload it.

Thanks for the replies

Balance:

Ive reminded them all if we are going to play it, which ever we decide they must take it "seriously" , enough to play and have fun, and not TOO serious so that people rage. Ive also told them they cannot to do anything childish/ ridiculous , and follow the story . everyone in the group knows its consensual

saying that i assume the GM gives them a set of options and they choose? or can they do a spur of the moment thing and do something differently which id have to compensate for?


Lynata:

Thanks for the charts , they make the idea of the systems much clearer for me
with the armour "penetration" , im going out on a fairly sturdy limb that its about seeing if you can breach armour?
thanks for the info on the reload times, capacity in clips etc



questions?

how much control as a GM would i have over story line? i know players have a fair bit of freedom, and id like them to make their "own" story as it goes along, but i understand i have to be their "guide" , does that mean i choose the possible paths and they choose from them? does that mean i have to generate a response to their actions?

say a character dies, can they make a new one? im guessing the later in the story the harder it will be to make a new character with no exp.

so far its 1 for DW, 2 for RT and 1-2 undecided. If Rogue trader is chosen, one player asked me if they can play as an Xeno. For the first few games, we feel all playing human would be straight forward enough to learn rules, but i think we all would like to create an xeno if possible. Id choose a Kroot , id love that to be possible, as Kroot are AMAZING


Automatically Appended Next Post:
* we all i mean, obviously some want to make humans, but some want to make xeno haha in this group anyway

Mekboy_Rulk wrote:how much control as a GM would i have over story line?

As much damn control as you want, but not everyone reacts well to railroading. Just remember you basically play as the world against the players.

Mekboy_Rulk wrote:with the armour "penetration" , im going out on a fairly sturdy limb that its about seeing if you can breach armour?

Sort of! Penetration could be seen as "bonus damage" that can only be applied to Armour Protection. If a weapon does not have sufficient Pen to overcome the AP, the remaining AP will reduce the base damage - up to completely negating the attack!
And that is before the target's Toughness Bonus, which basically works like a second set of armour (which can not be affected by Pen) is factored in.

Example: Inquisitor Draco is facing off a renegade Guardsman. Having succeeded on his attack test, he rolls damage for his bolt pistol, doing 8 damage with Pen 4. The heretic wears a carapace providing an Armour Protection of 5, which means that only 7 points of damage will "punch through" (5-4=1 -> 8-1=7). These 7 points are then modified by the traitor's Toughness Bonus of 3, which means that only 4 points of damage (7-3=4) are subtracted from the enemy's pool of "wounds" (=hitpoints). Still, he looks to be in a rather bad shape now.

Mekboy_Rulk wrote:say a character dies, can they make a new one? im guessing the later in the story the harder it will be to make a new character with no exp.

Yes, it is normal that players of killed characters roll up new ones. What differs from group to group is the level at which he or she (re-)joins the team. Some GMs let people start at the beginning again, others allow them to use their old XP value (essentially only costing the player his old character's background, contacts and equipment - which, some may argue, is enough already), yet others do something in-between and let new characters (including those of players who join up at a later date) start at a penalty of -1 or more levels.

Mekboy_Rulk wrote:If Rogue trader is chosen, one player asked me if they can play as an Xeno. For the first few games, we feel all playing human would be straight forward enough to learn rules, but i think we all would like to create an xeno if possible. Id choose a Kroot , id love that to be possible, as Kroot are AMAZING

I believe you can actually play as a Kroot in RT! I know Orks are possible, but I believe I've read about Kroot mercenaries as well. I know their equipment is in the books. Unfortunately, my RT group stagnated in favour of a Dragon Age campaign, so my experience with that system is somewhat lacking. I'm sure other posters can answer this one, though. Or you look it up on the interwebs.

And yes, the biggest challenge for you as a GM will be to keep your players' noses pointed in the general direction of your plot without making them feel like they're being railroaded. Players rarely act like the GM imagined they would, so you will have to improvise a lot! But you could say that all of this is part of the fun. That said, there's also an important difference about Rogue Trader in that the players may very well come up with a plot on their own. Them having their own starship does mean that they can go wherever they want - in which case it would be your job to come up with impromptu challenges they encounter on their way or at their destination!

Mekboy_Rulk wrote:how much control as a GM would i have over story line? i know players have a fair bit of freedom, and id like them to make their "own" story as it goes along, but i understand i have to be their "guide" , does that mean i choose the possible paths and they choose from them? does that mean i have to generate a response to their actions?

Mostly, they should have pretty free reign and you will have to come up with the story around their actions. However, do be prepared to say "no", occasionally drop the occasional ominous hint about what might happen if they go off on a wild tangent (an evil grin, furious scribbling and dice rolling behind the GM's screen works well*) and make sure they get the hint at times ("Are you SURE you're not interested in the papers on the table?").

*On which note, you should do this even if they're not on a tangent. It's now a conditioned reflex for me to pick up dice every few minutes and roll them "meaningfully" to worry the players.

After all, it's only a roleplay if the characters get to act as they would.

This doesn't necessarily mean it's all off the bat. In my DH game, there's obvious boundaries due to the Inquisitor (and how much the characters want to risk getting on her bad side), but I offer up the setting and the basic mission briefs, but I let the players decide how they want to do things. Every few sessions we have some time to let them plan what they'd like to do, and I then get to flesh out those ideas, add in some complications, but still know it's roughly how things are going to go ahead.

say a character dies, can they make a new one? im guessing the later in the story the harder it will be to make a new character with no exp.

That's your call. As the characters can cheat death by burning fate points, it'll take a few mess-ups (or some sadistic GMing) before they're permanently dead (particularly if you let players earn burnt fate points back with good roleplaying), but if they do get unlucky, then there are a couple of reasonable options:

- Roll a new character, plus a reasonable amount of XP to help them back up to the right sort of level. Depending on how well they roleplayed their death, this might be less than they had before, or potentially even more!
If, say, the character is an outwardly jerkish soldier who deep down does care for his comrades, a death where he tricks them into leaving without him so he can cover their escape, single-handedly fights his way to the heretics' anti-aircraft gun that's got them pinned down and destroys it by shorting out two lasgun magazines as a make-shift bomb, dying as the gun's ammo cache goes sky-high... that's the kind of thing that would deserve a bonus.

That said, you shouldn't just let them create Character v2 though, they should be at least somewhat different.

- Offer them a choice of some of the NPCs as possible characters, then tailor whichever one to an appropriate power level.

If Rogue trader is chosen, one player asked me if they can play as an Xeno.

You should watch out for that. It can make some stories harder to run.
In any case, you should make it clear to any players that a Xenos'll suffer heavily in social interactions and may be excluded from some sections of the story. (For example, if the Rogue Trader needs to visit a nobleman's high banquet, a Kroot would not be very welcome.)

Also, Orks can be so tough that it can be difficult to come up with a threat that'll do more than annoy them without risking the rest of the party being a thin smear on the walls.

One minor grammatical point to bring up (and I know I get it wrong myself at times), it should be "Play as a Xenos". It's a word where the singular ends in S (The plural is Xenoi), although this is forgotten by many GW authors.

Thanks for the replies

Melissia:
Righ-oh, no rail roading, against the players thanks for the idea

Lynata:

Penetration could be seen as "bonus damage" that can only be applied to Armour Protection.
I see, so armour esstially is for damage reduction on the whole , with certain armours being much more effective, as you said up to completely negating the attack just like Real life sounds a bit of a facepalm statement now i read it back
thanks for the example, that helped alot

Yes, it is normal that players of killed characters roll up new ones.
I thought so, would be abit boring if you died and that was it, y'dead
I think to start with as Gm, id allow them to make a new character, using the chart to roll on/choose from, as id guess they would replace the dead with others from the crew etc, but id let them keep the level they were up to and exp, id probly give them some "free exp" to spend where they wish just so they can keep in league with the campaign. ( unless they chose a nooby new character on purpose, like a conscript guardsmen and the like) sound reasonable?


I believe you can actually play as a Kroot in RT!
WOOOT! haha yeah, im pleased as you might tell from the clicking spree


the biggest challenge for you as a GM will be to keep your players' noses pointed in the general direction of your plot without making them feel like they're being railroaded
Ill try keep it slightly railroaded to start , i mean as in narrowing option just so we can learn rules sufficently in order to free roam alittle more, youknow like training wheels


Them having their own starship does mean that they can go wherever they want
yes that would be the plan, i have some questions about that later

MarcoSkoll:

do be prepared to say "no", occasionally drop the occasional ominous hint about what might happen if they go off on a wild tangent
and make sure they get the hint at times

I see, im sure ill have to do them at some point obviously ill give them numerous options, but make some of them obscure so only if they are thinking carefully they could find them ( like they could choose to pursue a half glimpsed figure that rushed down the corridor , or enter the room and inspect whats going on, or pick up the papers that he dropped on the floor which are written in some strange scrawl , either choice will lead them to the same place eventually, just different routes) sound good? is that what you mean?


characters can cheat death by burning fate points
ah right, but how would you be able to reasonably explain avioding something that would spell certain death? a fate point like a resserection so they die in combat but can burn fate points to survive after the combat is done? do fate points just bring them to life but with disadvantages
( say they were engulfed in superheated flame, which normally would kill anyone, but they use a fate point, and "brought back to life" , would they suffer from fairly sever burns , think anakin from star wars when he crawls up the bank of the lava river in episode 3 , or would you say that they managed to at last second take cover under something, narrowly surviving with no ill effects other than being shook up)


you should make it clear to any players that a Xenos'll suffer heavily in social interactions and may be excluded from some sections of the story. (For example, if the Rogue Trader needs to visit a nobleman's high banquet, a Kroot would not be very welcome.)

Ill make it clear , but as for my kroot, im the GM so i probably wont be able to actually be interacting with the character , unless the one other who doesnt mind doing GM does it sometimes, so missing parts of the story wouldnt matter too much aslong as i make "guest appearences" id probly make an "outcast" human trader with his kroot friend/ worker, ( think Han Solo/ Chewy , and the 2009 startrek film with Scotty and Keenser, for thoughs who havnt seen it, scottys helper alien who he contineusly shouts at for climbing on everything.) as an npc to drop hints of where they should go next, sort of coincidently keeps turning up or something, then if i ever get to play, ill either go as the human trader or the Kroot.

"Play as a Xenos".
thanks for the info didnt know that, i always just thought all alien forms in 40k were refered to as "Xeno" by the imperium,


Questions:


Fate points, divine intervention escaping unscathed, or only just surviving , clinging to life?
Starships , who controls them? the actual rogue trader, the combined players, but the actual RT gets final say ( that kind of goes aswell for majour decision, input by crew, RT orders them, they obey or rebel) , who names the ship?
I control the planets, would it be fair to say they choose where they want to go next, i come up with a number of planets in the system, a number of occourences they wont know about , then they choose one planet or area and we role with that and see where it leads?
Do players get to choose their characters specialisations or skills, or is it determined with a dice roll?

Thanks for your time once again really really looking forward to getting into this

Mekboy_Rulk wrote:I see, so armour esstially is for damage reduction on the whole , with certain armours being much more effective

Yup!

Actually, that reminds me - the system makes a difference between normal and "Primitive" armour as well as weapons. Stuff like an Ork using his shoota as a club to bang a Space Marine on the helmet, followed by the Space Marine turning around and running his chainsword through the Ork who only happens to wear a primitive leather breastplate. Essentially it works like this:

normal weapon vs normal armour = standard Armour Protection
primitive weapon vs primitive armour = standard AP
primitive weapon vs normal armour = double AP
normal weapon vs primitive armour = half AP

Mekboy_Rulk wrote:I think to start with as Gm, id allow them to make a new character, using the chart to roll on/choose from, as id guess they would replace the dead with others from the crew etc, but id let them keep the level they were up to and exp, id probly give them some "free exp" to spend where they wish just so they can keep in league with the campaign. ( unless they chose a nooby new character on purpose, like a conscript guardsmen and the like) sound reasonable?

Sounds good! The idea to use recommend "taking over" existing NPCs is particularly nice, but I'm sure that there's always a way a new character can be squeezed in just in case the player wants to create something entirely by himself. A Rogue Trader's starship is vast, after all - though picking up a new crew member may well be an adventure by itself, too!

Mekboy_Rulk wrote:ah right, but how would you be able to reasonably explain avioding something that would spell certain death? a fate point like a resserection so they die in combat but can burn fate points to survive after the combat is done? do fate points just bring them to life but with disadvantages

This depends mostly on the circumstances, i.e. what exactly led to the character's death, and you as a GM are advised to brainstorm a viable solution to present a believable reason for the survival, possibly with input from the other players. If a character was left behind on an exploding ship, maybe he found a voidsuit at the very last moment, or the compartment he was in was miraculously not decompressed entirely. If a character dies from a fire, he will survive, but will be horribly scarred. If a character was shot, he will keep the wounds inflicted by the weapon as a memory, possibly even having lost an eye or a limb and requiring cyber-prosthetics. The rulebook does offer a few examples for this, if I remember correctly!

In short, the character will still be "out cold" and would have to be rescued by the other players, and then has to receive medical attention, still bearing the injuries from this near-death experience. Depending on what exactly happened, it may well be that the character can only be rescued several sessions later - for example if an enemy took him prisoner and your group has to rescue their buddy! In the meantime, perhaps the player can take on the role of one of the armsmen that will be taken along as part of the rescue party, just so that the player still has fun and can participate in getting his own character back.

The one exception to this would be an Adepta Sororitas character who has purchased the high level talent called "Miraculous Survival", which indeed allows such a character to arise anew seemingly unharmed, getting back into the battle with full hitpoints and no injuries even after she would have died from stuff like a Chaos Marine having slammed her into a wall with a swing of a two-handed power-warhammer and the roof coming down on top of her. That said, this is a Dark Heresy career, so you're unlikely to see such a character in your Rogue Trader game.

Mekboy_Rulk wrote:Starships , who controls them? the actual rogue trader, the combined players, but the actual RT gets final say ( that kind of goes aswell for majour decision, input by crew, RT orders them, they obey or rebel) , who names the ship?

This is completely up to your group. I suggest asking what they think would feel best, then work out a background explanation for why things are like that. Normally it's the Rogue Trader who is the Lord of everything, though it is entirely possible to create a believable situation where he requires consent of his command staff, either due to the lead character's own incompetence with finer details, or because the command staff has "shares" in the Rogue Trader's captaincy, possibly because their ancestors once helped out the Rogue Trader's grandfather with their own riches or some such thing.

Rogue Traders work like Kings in Space, but just like in medieval Europe you can create a situation where a council of noble lords has more political influence than their king.

Mekboy_Rulk wrote:I control the planets, would it be fair to say they choose where they want to go next, i come up with a number of planets in the system, a number of occourences they wont know about , then they choose one planet or area and we role with that and see where it leads?

Sounds good to me!

Mekboy_Rulk wrote:I see, im sure ill have to do them at some point obviously ill give them numerous options, but make some of them obscure so only if they are thinking carefully they could find them

Don't be too in-depth, or you'll spend ages working on things your players will never find. You don't want to be completely unprepared, but you also want to be making a lot of it up on the go so as to build around what the players do... or don't do.

Fate points, divine intervention escaping unscathed, or only just surviving , clinging to life?

Usually the latter, although you can be more generous on some occasions. In the case of "how could they survive that?!", it'll need a bit of thought, and possibly a brief retcon or two.

If they take a critical meltagun hit for massive damage to the head, you might need to decide that "it was a glancing hit, and you've lost a lot of your face, so you're going to need a lot of medical attention and bionics, but one of your allies managed to stabilise you with the remnants of a med-kit one of the bad-guys had dropped".

If they're in an engine room while the plasma drive is going nuclear... perhaps rather than dying in a huge radioactive fireball, they get thrown back and knocked out by an exploding control panel (got to love sci-fi control panels that explode when whatever they control goes critical) and an NPC drags them to the nearest escape pod. Downside is, lots of burns, probably sill a healthy dose of radiation poisoning and they broke their back when they landed, so they're going to need a neural relay to replace their lower spinal cord.

So, normally major injury, possibly involving bionics or major surgery, but at the very least a long and painful recovery is pretty much a given. However, given the raw power of fate points, the damage should still be mostly repairable without too many big long term effects after they've been all fixed up.
These are after all, action heroes of sorts, and should be bound by the same narrative laws of survivability.

Starships , who controls them?

Depends who's designated the pilot/gunner/etc. Usually, the Lord-Captain (usually the RT, although if you don't have an RT - or have more than one - it might be different) is in "overall control", so might have stern words with characters who aren't playing their part, but they should also listen to the other characters as appropriate to their roles. If a player has chosen to play a hoary old voidsmaster who's lived through a hundred battles, then one must wonder why the RT has hired him if he's not going to listen!

Who names the ship?

See this thread for discussion on that.

I control the planets, would it be fair to say they choose where they want to go next, I come up with a number of planets in the system, a number of occurrences they wont know about, then they choose one planet or area and we roll with that and see where it leads?

Essentially, but you do need to start with a brief idea of the region the players are working in - major systems, along with enough background to act as a bit of a plothook; the big trade routes; local threats (be they aggressive, like Ork pirates, or passive like dangerous warp passages); and the like.

As and when it comes down to deciding what's up, your players may pick up on the vague blurb "Oh, Thranxis IX is supposed to have some of the finest fabrics in the subsector, we should see if we can set up trade relations there", and you can run with that... or but perhaps they want to visit a forge world to buy artificer carapace armour, and you haven't come up with one - in which case "There's not one in this part of the sub-sector, but the Lyan forgeworlds might be able to help you, and they're near enough you could make it in not too long if you're prepared to cut near the Wraenheart warpstorm." Of course, there's another way to come up with background - if the precise specifics aren't too important, ask your players.

When my Dark Heresy players decided to visit an Administratum building I hadn't planned for in the slightest, I just told them to describe it and ran with what I got. You can get some great descriptions out of the right players.

So, have some basics down on paper first and fill in the gaps as you go, if sometimes by asking your players.

Do players get to choose their characters specialisations or skills, or is it determined with a dice roll?

Normally, players choose their class, homeworld, origin, etc, as they've got to put up with playing them! It's only the characteristics that normally get rolled.

If it's definitely RT you're all going for as a GM I'd echo the advice of not planning stuff out in too much detail though this does depend on how much your PCs get the bigger picture i.e. there is little in the rules if they can acquire the stuff to each walk round with an entourage of 20 highly armed mercs. One of our players spent ages writing out a campaign that when I was running I had to skip at least half of due to actions the PCs had taken.

The other thing I did right at the start was sat down with the players and agreed what sort of RT adventure they were after i.e. loot the ships and go round starting fights or the dynasty building type opportunities so not always combat but giving them situations they still have to solve like how to deal with the over zealous imperial tithe collector or what to do if one of the colonies they founded is starving (throwing these in while other stuff is going on sometimes helps too so they have to make a real decision on what to sacrifice).

And watch out for curve balls like happened to me last night where one of the party decided to summilarily execute the govenor for failing in his duty to the imperium as he allowed them to be ambushed on arrival by seperatists so I quickly had to come up with what the rest of the council were going to do about that.

Thanks for the replies

this is going to be a all round reply to posts because there was alot

not too much detail, problery miss most of it , i was going to design a number of planets and give them a choice. eah planet has something different, so if they dont choose it, ill use it for the next place they go to, or if in an enitrely different system, just copy n paste the scenaero on that planet

right, fate = narrowly clinging to life in most cases. how much would be recomended of penalisation? obviously if someone took a melta crit the the face and somehow survives , they would not be in good shape for more combat ( unless they are soooooo mental, rage, hatefull and chem'd up with painkillers that they keep attacking through the pain.

if someone suffers a critical wound, how can i make it fun for them?, i doubt sitting in an infirmary for afew months would be enjoyable, espicially when your skin has been torn off......

curve balls, gottacha

thanks for your time

Mekboy_Rulk wrote:eah planet has something different, so if they dont choose it, ill use it for the next place they go to, or if in an enitrely different system, just copy n paste the scenaero on that planet

Like some sort of planetary design toolset? Sounds neat.

Mekboy_Rulk wrote:how much would be recomended of penalisation? obviously if someone took a melta crit the the face and somehow survives , they would not be in good shape for more combat ( unless they are soooooo mental, rage, hatefull and chem'd up with painkillers that they keep attacking through the pain.

Well, the Crit tables already go into a lot of detail regarding the injuries. In this instance, I'd probably make it a glancing hit (as staring in a melta barrel and surviving sounds a bit redonkulous) but still have half his face melted away. Undoubtedly, such a wound would be quite gruesome to look at even after the patient was stabilized in medical care - he'd probably no longer have a nose or eyes, meaning loss of vision and a big Fellowship penalty. Eyesight could be restored via cybernetic implants, whereas the ugly bits might be covered up with a fancy mask. Y'know, like that leper guy from Kingdom of Heaven.

Mekboy_Rulk wrote:if someone suffers a critical wound, how can i make it fun for them?, i doubt sitting in an infirmary for afew months would be enjoyable, espicially when your skin has been torn off......

Downtime! Warp travel means that a ship may be in a jump for several weeks if not months until finally arriving at its destination. Worst case, have him come along without everything already healed. The character may be in pain, but there's always stimms to deal with that. No slacking off in sickbay when there's work to do!
Alternatively, like with the prisoner plan, have him temporarily jump into the role of one of the other staff officers or armsmen of the ship. There's more than a dozen potential stations in a bridge crew, from the Chief Augur to the Master of the Vox - I believe the "Battlefleet Calixis" supplement has an extensive list, though I'm sure you can come up with something on the spot as well (Rogue Trader ships may work differently than Navy ones, anyways).

Mekboy_Rulk wrote:how much would be recommended of penalisation? obviously if someone took a melta crit the the face and somehow survives , they would not be in good shape for more combat.

The crit tables deal with normal penalties. When it comes down to burning a fate point to survive an injury, that normally leaves the character unconscious (so essentially out of the fight) although you may decide that it's appropriate for a character to heroically fight on.

The effects of burning a fate point will dramatically reduce how badly they're injured, but how much is far too dependent on the exact situation to offer much advice. If you get stuck, ask the player how they might have survived.

if someone suffers a critical wound, how can i make it fun for them?

Lynata has some good answers here. (But bear in mind, not all criticals are fatal, the minor ones may only be stunned for couple of rounds and a level of fatigue or two). Warp trips offer a lot of time for characters to recover as they can take months but pass in a few rolls game time - but if it comes down to it, have the player take on the role of one of their character's immediate subordinates while their main character recovers.
(It's easier in Rogue Trader than Dark Heresy, where there's less planet-hopping and few minions.)

Thanks for the repiles

Lynata:

Like some sort of planetary design toolset? Sounds neat.
http://donjon.bin.sh/scifi/swsg/ i think its a Star wars one, i know some people are abit iffy about starwars, but i feel i can use the basic ideas from it to come up with planets, just 40k up everything

Y'know, like that leper guy from Kingdom of Heaven.
I get what you mean I HAVE NO FAAAAAACE ;'( have a mask!

Downtime! you can come up with something on the spot as well
Good ideas



MarcoSkoll:

normally leaves the character unconscious (so essentially out of the fight)
ah so they actually are just clinging to life, unless the heroicly, or insanely! fight on

Warp trips offer a lot of time for characters to recover
but if it comes down to it, have the player take on the role of one of their character's immediate subordinates while their main character recovers.
so the general consensus is that by the time they reach a new place, theyll be mostly healed, or they will just use someone else


questions:

going to what lynata said, bionics , do they provide bonuses too? eg, chance of hitting bionics instead of flesh, bionic senses picking up things normal sense dont, eg heat signatures, sounds etc?

Mekboy_Rulk wrote:bionics , do they provide bonuses too? eg, chance of hitting bionics instead of flesh, bionic senses picking up things normal sense dont, eg heat signatures, sounds etc?

Yup, depending on what kind of ... uh ... "mechanical enhancement" the character is being gifted with, cybernetics can provide bonuses to Armour Protection or Toughness, replace the need to use certain tools for a task (example: integrated auspex) or increase one's skill in some area. It's all pretty logical. Unsurprisingly, Tech-Priests are usually the ones most "pimped up", sporting entire arrays of implants, whereas other characters usually have none to one in the early phases of a campaign.

Thanks for the reply


cybernetics can provide bonuses to Armour Protection or Toughness, replace the need to use certain tools for a task (example: integrated auspex)
Nice, i suppose they can come with disadvantages, nobody would like having their arm go rusty and seize up would they


Just to make sure whats the minimum ammount of players? so far there a 3 sold on the idea , Myself and two others, and 3 possible/maybe

One player always goes for the toughest, strongest character possible, and keeps asking "Do space marines count as a choice!? " iv said with Rogue Trader, im not sure, and us others want RT. iv said to him you could proberly make tough "normal" person, like a military veteran or thug merc, and invest in that sort of way, rather than go SM SM SM SM SM NAO. , i personally prefer "average" humans defeating the horrors of 40k rather than a superhuman. More grim dark imo in that respect

Mekboy_Rulk wrote:Nice, i suppose they can come with disadvantages, nobody would like having their arm go rusty and seize up would they

They can, but I'd normally restrict rusting to Poor quality bionics. With Common or better bionics, they're not made from materials that would rust and they're well enough sealed that water won't get in and short the electrics (although, I suppose, it might if the limb is damaged). The problem is more likely to be "Sorry, but the Medicae can't do anything for an arm that's shooting sparks!"

Just to make sure whats the minimum ammount of players? so far there a 3 sold on the idea , Myself and two others

2 players and a GM is the bare minimum I would consider, although I'd prefer 3 or 4 players.

One player always goes for the toughest, strongest character possible, and keeps asking "Do space marines count as a choice!?"

Short answer: No. This is Rogue Trader, not Deathwatch and Space Marines do not have a part in it.

If he really wants the tough strong guy, my best suggestion is he plays a Death World Arch-Militant, He can also pick up the more appropriate origin path choices (such as Stubjack, which adds to either WS or BS) too.
That gives him a nice bonus to Strength and Toughness, as well as the rather brutal "Weapon Master" talent (+2 to Damage & Initiative and +10% to hit with a specific type of weapons).

Even my Void-Born Arch-Militant, who's not optimised for out and out combat (having skills like Tech-Use and Medicae as well as having chosen Int and Fel advances over things like WS, S & T), has kicked a lot of backside due to Weapon Master (Having Paranoia from the "Fear" motivation in Into the Storm has also helped. Rolling D10+9 for Initiative means she's usually at the top of the Initiative order).

you will have to put in a massive amount of work if your the GM, but it's worth it in the end.

Have you thought using a different system and just using the backstory? I ran a game set in the 40k universe using a game called orbit, i just transfered the names of the weapons over and the player races and classes, it gave a more balanced game which was more fun, and instead of buying lots of books at GW prices I bought 1 book at £10.

I never like the warhammer 40k stuff it seems very unbalanced.
Warhammer fantasy is okm though it has warhammers classic fatal wound system, so you have to be carefull with your character.

Mekboy_Rulk wrote:One player always goes for the toughest, strongest character possible, and keeps asking "Do space marines count as a choice!? "

As MarcoSkoll wrote, such characters are not standard for RT games. Given that it's a Pen&Paper RPG, however, you as the GM have a lot of leeway tweaking things here and there, so if your group really wants a Marine accompanying them, it is certainly doable. A background explanation should be easy to find and could range from official Chapter support for the Rogue Trader's endeavour to the Marine being on some sort of solo-quest to redeem himself for a past failure before being allowed to return to his brethren. FFG's Astartes rules are somewhat strange, however, in that they seem to be somewhat exaggerated when compared to what you would read in GW's material, to the point where it renders "normal" humans operating alongside Marines pointless due to a weird weapon power disparity newly invented by FFG's writers. But this too can be easily tweaked by simply giving the Marine the same kind of armour and equipment available to the others (and switching the "Toughness x2" to a less ridiculous +20 or +30 bonus), so that everybody will at least be able to do equal ranged damage, the difference then only being the Marine's melee strength and exceptional toughness compared to the other characters' wider skillset for operating technology, commanding the ship and generally be the ones knowing how stuff works.

This is just an option, though. You don't seem fond of the idea yourself, and a Marine character would be extremely limited in where he can be useful. Rogue Trader doesn't just throw the characters from one infantry battle into another, you have ship-to-ship combat, investigation and diplomacy as well, where an Astartes character would be relegated to standing in a corner and watching for traps. Balancing the mechanics as well as the players' spotlights may also not be the best way to go when you still have no experience as a GM with this system - if you don't get it right, the entire campaign might suffer. In general, I would say go with MarcoSkoll's suggestion and tell your player about the Arch-Militant!

Lynata wrote:to the Marine being on some sort of solo-quest to redeem himself for a past failure before being allowed to return to his brethren.

Throne no! That's possibly the most cliché and least original excuse for "Why is there a Marine here?" ever. I've seen that excuse too many times in Inquisitor, and it doesn't actually offer any good reasons.

It's right up there with "My character has a dark and mysterious past he doesn't talk about - which I haven't actually written and thus he's about as deep and developed as the plot of a porn film."

If the GM is a novice, staying within the game's stated guidelines is probably best. So, no Space Marines for basic out-of-the-main-book Rogue Trader.

Players will often push boundries (it's a human trait, really...) and any one character that is much more powerful in party combat than the others runs the risk of stealing the game. The GM is forced to challenge that character, so everyone else is facing overpowering foes.

Also, doesn't Rogue Trader focus on all the player-types having an appropriate 'ship combat' ability? The Mechanicus adept fixes things, the pilot... pilots, etc? The Space Marine would probably have to sit around waiting for a boarding action.

Still, it's your game and your call.

Thanks for the replies

after reading this and talking to said player, he has decided to create a voystran merc like character, we researched the internet and it said he could in RT, for those that actually know, is it posssible for him to do that?

We have another player who has decided to go as the actual rogue trader.

The voystran guy wants to have a heavy weapon, say an auto cannon equivlent (autocannons too powerfull, i just wanted to give an example of the type he wants to have, like perhaps a smaller less powerfull version)
I researched and found some things , but it appears things like that are *rare*/ cost alot etc ...... im not going to post what im going to do as he may read this thread , and im undicided, please confirm if you can have such a weapon, and if he could get it only later on in the campaign to keep in line with enemy toughness etc

he also said he wants bionics , which i replied with if you get wounded and lose said item of body you can buy one to replace it. he was wondering if weapons can be built into bionic limbs , and if they increase strength ( i apologise if someone already said if it increase strength, i couldnt find any post about it hehe) * say theres a locked door, could a guy/girl punch through said metal door if it was weak enough with the bionic limb if it was strong enough?*

Also can someone explain weight? its a limit on capacity im guessing, does it affect character weight ( say walking across weak floors , heavy=fall through), do strong characters carry more ( sounds stupid as irl yes ) and also strength requiring weapons ( melee weapons, heavy weapons needing strength to carry them)

Thanks for your time