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Just because, I commented on a Battle Report and might as well show WHAT I DO.

HQ] Trazyn the Infinite [175]

Royal Court 1]
- Necron Lord: Warscythe, Mindshackle Scarabs, Resurrection Orb [90]
- Cryptek: Eldricht Lance & Solar Pulse [55]
- Cryptek: Eldricht Lance [35]
- Cryptek: Eldricht Lance [35]
- Cryptek: Abyssal Staff [30]

EL] 5 Necron Deathmarks: Synaptic Disintegrators [95]
/ Night Scythe: TL Tesla Destructor [100]
EL] 5 Necron Lychguards: Hyperphase Swords & Dispersion Shields [225]
/ Night Scythe: TL Tesla Destructor [100]
EL] Triarch Stalker: Heat Ray [150]

TR] 5 Necron Immortals: Tesla Carbines [85]
/ Night Scythe: TL Tesla Destructor [100]
TR] 5 Necron Immortals: Tesla Carbines [85]
/ Night Scythe: TL Tesla Destructor [100]
TR] 5 Necron Warriors: Gauss Flayers [65]
/ Ghost Ark: 2 Gauss Flayer Arrays [115]

FST] 1 Heavy Destroyer: Heavy Gauss Cannon [60]
FST] 1 Heavy Destroyer: Heavy Gauss Cannon [60]
FST] 4 Canoptek Scarabs [60]

HVY] Annihilation Barge: TL Tesla Destructor & Gauss Cannon [90]
HVY] Annihilation Barge: TL Tesla Destructor & Gauss Cannon [90]

1995/2000 #37/8 (4 AV 13, 4 AV 11)

So how does this list work you might be asking yourselves, but I'll put up a starter guide: Nothing's set in stone.

Trazyn: Phaeron, Scoring, Anti-Horde

Useful utility belt IC. He usually joins the Deathmarks from the get-go to give the unit Relentless and make them fully capable to take on their Mark if need be.

Royal Court: TL;DR - Anti-Tank add-ons, Orb for Lychguard usually; Staff for Deathmarks (Gee, wonder why?); and oh the mandatory Solar Pulse

Deathmarks: Psychology in warfare. Ya see, with the "omg-stupid" flamer combo in their wings, and Trazyn joining the unit making the unit somewhat useful firing 10 Sniper Shots, the doom-flamer, and charging after. If that's their mark - You can take them on pretty swell. But I'll be honest here, the Deathmarks are more for Psychological effect. Being Mark'd will gauge how the enemy reacts to such a predicament.

Lychguard: Gimmick unit. I like the Swords and Shields models, they do stand up to most things in CC (and even more when Trazyn joins them due to 2 MSS's) but the best part? With Trazyn around they're technically Scoring, that's never bad for this kind of 'ard unit.

Stalker - Just started using this thing, the Mark it gives out helps this army deal with the likes of Terminators a bit better. Helped a ton vs. Loganwing yesterday. He's also your anti-heavy armour/ anti-enemy scarab go-to guy if you are facing a list like this in a mirror match against the fabled "Scarab Farm list" and somehow your massed Tesla Destructors didn't kill the Scrabs and Spyders while they tried to close in. (Is one of the many reasons I don't like Scarab Farms - opposing Crons eat them up for breakfast)

Warriors - Bought for the Ghost Ark, together with Ghost Ark, good versatile firepower able to suppress tanks and hordes pretty well...Unless you're facing GK or Crons, of course

Immortals - With Teslas and Lances usually, aid from turn 1/2, if the enemy is somehow shooting everything they got at my Troop Choices, I love them for it! Please, don't shoot my dangerous stuff gods no! Plus Solar Pulse can usually save these units to last until mid-game and about then the enemy gots to worry about everything else in the list anyway?

Did I mention the Night Scythes and massed Tesla Destructors yet? No? I don't think I need to. Did I mention this army fights dismounted 99% of the time save the Warriors? No? Well that's important.

Annihilation Barges: See above, ya nits Gauss Cannons in case of needing to thin down Marines a bit more reliably/ Possibly glance vehicles some more (Like AV 14)

Heavy Destroyers - Wutwhy? Most of you may be asking but between Annhilation Barges/Natural Terrain/Solar Pulse Cover these guys are survivable and your more reliable anti-tank kills to use with Scarabs and the Stalker to help weaken higher AV threats and finish them off. With their great threat range of 48" they're perfect Attack Bike w/ Lascannon kind of units. Only...Unlike the Attack Bike, they can get better vantage points if need be.

Scarabs - So cheap so they're a why not, more defensive than aggressive as I've pointed out in the Battle Report thread, that's basically how I always use them.

Thanks for any comments and I'll answer questions until I grow tired, lol.

Lone Heavy Destroyers are bad. If they die (and they will) they don't get a shot at RP, 'cause the whole unit is dead.

Infact, both Heavy Destroyers and Destroyers are completely terrible and don't have any place in a competitive Necron list. Keep 'em for your fun lists only.

I like the Night Scythes. Drop your Ark on your warriors and get another Night Scythe. mmmm Night Scythe.

After you drop the heavy destroyers, you have points for 8 more scarab bases! *roar*. Maybe shave a few points and you can have two units of 10. Or one unit of 10 and a unit of 5 Tomb Blades with Particle Shredder thingies (the S6 small blast jigger)

I like you shooting at the Lone Heavy Destroyers under all the conditions I listed above. Especially - Ignoring Night Fight and natural terrain they can use/ hide behind Annhilation Barges or the Ark.

Don't people take Lone MM Attack Bikes/ MM+HF (or Typhoon) Speeders and do well?

Scarabs fall to any good general - read: templates/counter charge

loreweaver wrote:

Infact, both Heavy Destroyers and Destroyers are completely terrible and don't have any place in a competitive Necron list. Keep 'em for your fun lists only.

Lore, man, it's statements like that that keep me coming back to dakka on a regular basis.

The Interwebs, where hyperbole knows no bounds.

Yeah, does he like Lemmings too?

I think his point was that unlike MM ABs, Heavy Destroyers can benefit from RPs if taken in groups. How likely that is in practice is debatable, however.

Very clever idea with the use of Phaeron and the Deathmarks!

ShadarLogoth wrote:

loreweaver wrote:

Infact, both Heavy Destroyers and Destroyers are completely terrible and don't have any place in a competitive Necron list. Keep 'em for your fun lists only.

Lore, man, it's statements like that that keep me coming back to dakka on a regular basis.

The Interwebs, where hyperbole knows no bounds.

I aim to please, my good friend :-)

I've had the destroyer unit work good for me once, in a fun game, where my opponent had Marines on foot. (How often do you see that in a competitive marine list!).

Night-Fight isn't an impossible thing to overcome. Your opponent has a good chance at lighting something up with a Dreadnaught, LR, or something and going super-extra-killy on it.

That Necron Heavy Destroyer certainly doesn't like any Tau unit with a Blacksun Filter.

Heavy Destroyers are just... not all that good right now when compared to other Fast Attack choices. Even a 2nd Triarch Stalker would be much better. At least you don't lose a whole Triarch Stalker to bolter fire.

You're still shooting the Heavy Destroyers over everything else, you're still being silly. Why are the Heavy Destroyers a threat to you?

That is a good point. There's lots of Threats out there.

I'd totally get the kill-points if it was a kill point mission. I might otherwise ignore them in favour of shooting at the much more deadly NightScythe.

However, I then have to ask, why not have another NightScythe unit instead? You've got 120pts tied up in two units that are very "meh" You could have something so much cooler... Like another Triarch Stalker. You could even take one with a TL Heavy Guass if you want. (Although the Heat Ray is way better).

So - KPs argument, using a typical example:

I have 5 Terminators with ThunderHammers/Shields in your face and about to charge multiple units and have next turn to charge you (guarantee'd, not "well I might have last turn" argument)

I have 5 Scouts out of Cover.

Do you still shoot my Scouts?

Regarding Night Scythe vs. Heavy Destroyers the first post I made (with the list) explains this.

Love reading forum threads with a guide, because it helps, ya know


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Gornall wrote:I think his point was that unlike MM ABs, Heavy Destroyers can benefit from RPs if taken in groups. How likely that is in practice is debatable, however.

Very clever idea with the use of Phaeron and the Deathmarks!

Thanks, the first point is moot as if you're spending 80 more points to only invite more people to want to shoot them.

Not a fan of this list. Too all over the place and a few too many point sinks.

Shooty necrons are, imo, just ok. The list has more power in CC.

Maybe it is a local meta thing but here that list wouldnt stand up in tournaments. Don't get me wrong it looks fine for a fun list but for competition I would completely start over.

Why would a CC list stand up in tournaments?

2 Turns to cross the table and what, hit the enemy mech on 4's or 6's is a good plan? It is never EVER a good plan to me. Why are Long Fang SW so good? Why are Psyflemen so good? Why is MechIG so good? Oh, that's right, shooty choices...Which are neutered by Night Fight, but not good lists which...have plenty of short-ranged fire that doesn't expect to stay back anyway?

A shooty list Necrons, hell anyone, does well. Necrons have the upper hand here because they can shoot then turn out the lights.

I see a Necron list entirely built around CC and though you can try it, you won't like having the vehicle-move = to-hit system. If 6E changes this system, sure, I'll be more inclined, till then.

I have been playing for a long, long time. I know how the rules for hitting vehicles work =P

3's or 4s for barges clipping them. Needing 6's for scarabs that have 20+ in the unit ... I will take those odds.

I am saying your list is sub par.

- you take a 5 man warrior unit with a barge, waste of points.
- you dumped 225 pnts into one 5 man unit for CC in an army with all shooting units.
- you lack any real AA support
- took a 4 man scarab unit just to fill points

I know you are set on what you are doing but you should also take peoples advice into consideration instead of shooting down every post that does not agree with the army composition. You could learn a great deal from others. Look at what is working and what is not.

I don't mind you disagreeing, but I don't get what you're saying.

- Take AV 13 that can be used as a Necron Ravager (even in this list, is bad? Would you rather 12 Warriors and just sit in Cover?

- I said the Lych were a gimmick unit, I don't know what's clearer than that? lol

- AA? If you're saying anti-armour, I took down Loganwing and Razorspam so far with this list, so it definitely stands a good fighting chance vs both. DE Skimmerspam (He took a mix of vehicles, like 4 Raiders, 4 Venoms, 2 Ravagers, 1 Razorwing) and I did fine too.

- And you'd rather play 60 pts down with no Scarabs? The wheels on the bus go round and round...

Sorry man, you just do not understand where I am coming from.

Clearly, show me a BR sometime when you face any of those lists and maybe I'll turn a leaf?

Deathmarks with the cryptek can be nice if they don't FAQ the staff into the ground...as it is there is still plenty of arguing about the whole ID issue. Also the night scythe still has to survive long enough to deliver the goods.

As for the lychguard, if this list is posted to prove a point on how much better of a list you can make, why waste points on a self-admitted gimmick unit? I'd rather ditch them, scrounge 20 points from elsewhere, and pick up another stalker and another immortals/nightscythe unit.

3 HoD crypteks in a GA is slightly better defensively than a ravager, and slightly worse offensively, and around 2-3x the cost (depending on how you count it). Not particularly points efficient.

I'm a fan of night scythes with tesla immortals so

Stalkers with a heat ray are not that great against scarabs actually, since the scarab's charge threat is a minimum of 5" further than the flamer threat range. If a max unit of scarabs decide to charge the stalker, statisticly you'll lose the walker, and they'll still have enough bases to do some more damage to something else. Not saying the stalker is a bad choice, just pointing out that they are not great at that particular duty.

Anni barges are nice little units that can be shoe-horned into about any list so another

The whole fast attack section....bleh. Heavy destroyers can be ok with the stalker, if you mass the fire on the same target...but a lone HD without TLing is gonna be pretty underwhelming. As an opponent, I'd be perfectly fine letting them zip around taking pot shots after the stalker is dead. I also just don't see you getting any real milage out of the scarabs against a competent opponent. I'd rather replace the entire section with a 5 man unit of tomb blades with particle beamers. Highly mobile, more survivable, versatile, and can synergize quite nicely with the stalker.

I think lists come mostly down to whether or not the player can make them work, so if it works for you, awesome. I don't however, think that this list demonstrates the superior skills that would give you the credibility to vehemently trash someone else's list....especially if that list works for them.

Maelstrom808 wrote:As for the lychguard, if this list is posted to prove a point on how much better of a list you can make, why waste points on a self-admitted gimmick unit?

Firstly; I like your original list and think it will do well. Target priority is a question you give the opponent which gives a +1 on psychology. I was doing a mathhammer breakdown of this and its clear to see how the Destroyers can slip under the radar, but I agree with Maelstrom on this. This was supposed to be your primo necron list but it has fat in it. Not the sort of fat that makes you go "nah, I don't want this", but the sort of fat that says "hey, maybe I should have another beer first".

I would be interested in seeing the list that you propose thats asian in style.

Secondly; dude, I love the humour you put in and the way you write it, but its so abrasive! Why? You can still have you humour and not offend people. There is part of the online surfer that enjoys seeing it, but it passes. With your post count, you are either new to dakka, came from another forum or have created a new account for whatever reason. Just think about that one. You obviously know the game and I want to hear and see your opinions but we all need to play nice.

Trim the fat and post the list.

I don't think Lychguard are ever "the fat" in a Trazyn list. In fact I think he hast the best two units to support Trazyn, Deathmarks and Lychguard. Sorry, people who don't see that are missing some very obvious tactical advantages, his tongue in cheek descriptions not with standing.

I also love how some one pointed out that if they were facing this list they would just ignore the HD's. That is exactly the whole point in bringing them the way that he does. A 9-2 36" that your opponent will ignore all game is just fantastic.

I agree with ShadarLogoth, Trayzn with his Phaeron and Scoring abilities work well with marching some Deathmarks across the board.

Trazyn also works very well with Lychguard for the same reason.

I've had below average success with the latter, but that's because I made poor tactical decisions in those games, and I don't have a Night Scythe to load up Lychguard in.

Yes, Traz works well with Deathmarks and Lychguard. I never said he didn't. While he doesn't make Lychguard a scoring unit (contrary to what he has listed), they do make an excellent unit to attach to while he stands on an objective. If Traz gets sniped out of the unit, it's also nice that they are some of the very models he can take over with SH IF he doesn't randomly take over one of the crypteks somewhere else on the board.

However for the points, Lychguard (even with Traz) are pretty vulnerable to dedicated assault units that are not built around I1 weapons. If you can eliminate them as a threat, and get the unit where it needs to go, you are golden. If not you are in quite a bit of trouble. Also, you have to worry about mobility. If that AV11 nightscythe gets shot down (which I guarantee it will have a giant bullseye on it) you are stuck back in reserve, which for a unit moving 6+d6", almost makes that 400 point unit a non-factor for the rest of the game, other than holding a backfield objective (and there are far cheaper units to do that with). For the points, it simply is not reliable enough for a TAC list imo, hence why I agree with the "gimmick" label...which I don't think he was kidding about either:

- I said the Lych were a gimmick unit, I don't know what's clearer than that? lol

As for the HDs, yes I'd ignore them because they simply don't do much. How dangerous is a single las cannon...in most cases, not very...and if it came down to actually needing to take them out, even with a 3+ cover save it's not hard once the real threats are dealt with.

Why wouldn't Trazyn be scoring in a unit of Lychguard?

Traz is, the Lychgard are not...not that it really matters that much.

My thoughts on this list:

I would lose the Royal Court Lord, Lychguard with transport, lose the fast slots completely, lose the warriors w/ Ghost Ark and I would lose the Triarch Stalker.

From there I would add another Abyssal staff tek and add another unit of Deathmarks with scythe. This gives some redundancy but also means you can double up those 2+ to wounds shots from the Deathmarks. Remember any Deathmark unit that shoots at a marked unit wounds on 2+. Also would add another unit of Immortals w/ Night Scythe. After that it's about getting in some high strength shots in. Maybe replace 1 or both of the A. Barges with Doom Scythes. With the points spare maybe (and a big maybe) put back in some heavy destroyers. I know why you like singles, but I would rather have a chance of getting RP than none at all if 1 goes down.

So for me your list would look like:

Trazyn the Infinite

Royal Court

Cryptek: Eldritch Lance & Solar Pulse
Cryptek: Eldritch Lance
Cryptek: Eldritch Lance
Cryptek: Abyssal Staff
Cryptek: Abyssal Staff

5 Necron Deathmarks
NS
5 Necron Deathmarks
NS

5 Necron Immortals w/ Tesla Carbines
NS
5 Necron Immortals w/ Tesla Carbines
NS
5 Necron Immortals w/ Tesla Carbines
NS
5 Necron Immortals w/ Tesla Carbines
NS

Doom Scythe
Doom Scythe

You still have some points spare to play with. Now this is a shooty, high threat saturation build with (I feel) very little fat. You have no cc punch but a huge amount of redundancy and it's pure MSU with high mobility. You may lose a unit to cc but if you play well everything else should be somewhere else where they can't be assaulted. Just my thoughts.


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Would also like to add that if I made a version of this list for myself I would probably turn Trayzn into a CC Barge Overlord. There is a huge amount of Tesla in this list so there is no need for more dedicated anti horde. Anti-tank is more the issue. And with the spare points to take it up to 2k I would probably add 10 Scarabs for scaring away high AV, tarpitting and screening.

I do like your original list. I myself spam Night Scythes, but it never occured to me to drop a 2nd Pulse and (and Overlord) and spam more Scythes in the Elites section. Will be playtesting in the near future to see which is more efficient.

It's not primo because of Lychguard, it IS better than the touted "MTO or Scarab Farm" in my humble opinion, though.

First of all, sorry for abrasiveness, it was what, 11p last time I tried responding to Clay, and maybe it being late started to turn on the "webbernets /tg/ humour I can pull out of my hat"

So Clay, sorry dude, just...Make more sense to me? I don't know what else to say.

I said the Lychguard were technically Scoring due to Trazy and his resurrect, someone explained it, and yes luck will take that tactic out of the bag, but that's why it's not OMGWTFBBQ awesome, lol. You could also torrent the Lychguard to hell and back and not shoot the other stuff in my list for a round while doing so, I'd like that but also hate it, as it IS a blow to the "Gimmick"

Something a lot of people missed is that the army fights DISMOUNTED. You only mount your "gun-platforms" Night Scythes if you are trying to reach objectives later on, even then, as with most Necron armies I've seen at least they caught on to this, you should simply go for the majority over the opponent and contest/destroy the rest.

Lychguards and Deathmarks usually start in their transports in the middle of my deploy zone, 6" back from the Deployment lines usually, if I'm first. This way I can zoom up to 6" from mid, and usually just pass mid with both units to form a forward battle line while the Immortals and everything else plays support. This depends, as always, but usually what I do. This puts a safety net of sorts if the enemy decides to hang back and shoot you after he seizes and you turn out the lights. It's not the BEST defense, but it's quite better than a immediate fold. If you're going second and don't want to risk it, line the deployment forward edge with them on foot, as they're still needed at the forefront (both units) because they won't be doing anything hanging in the back.

Ghost Ark is also usually filled with 5 warriors+lance cryptek with pulse, just for superstitious reasons i suppose but sometimes, you don't need Night Fight first turn. (Say vs CC armies)

Picking holes like "Lychguard can be overwhelmed" : Look at the army as a whole and tell me straight in the face:

Am I not trying to mitigate hordes too? Tesla Destructors (6) = Massed Arc + Gauss Flayer torrenting not good enough? Um, donno what else to say. I guess I could swap out a Immortals+NS unit for another Warriors+Barge if I start to see trouble. So far, against Horde Orks and Kan Wall Orks it's been fine. (Battlewagons might be trouble, but that's probably the strongest build against this list outside Terminators Spam and I'm thinking (but have not faced) BA with FNP everywhere, If I can be honest)

The Heavy Destroyers are meant to help early on, I'm surprised if someone actually shoot them early just the same though. They're like Multi-Melta/Typhoon Missile Launcher Speeders/ Multi Melta Attack Bikes (I said this before...) and help tons to your de-meching potential. "They don't get RP!" Neither do the aforementioned, do we see them complain about it?

Woo, anyways hope this helps and glad to see some eyes opening, so to speak.

Well said.

Out of interest, how many paper DE planes did those destroyers kill? If my math is correct, against FF av 10, they have a 12% chance to explode and a 7%(15% if flat out) chance to destroy with each shot. 2 of them firing over 5 turns should kill 2 raiders/venoms.

Lucky you I'm talking with the DE player right now, he killed them early because his Venom - Splinter Cannons had like, no better targets to get. lol Tesla Destructors still maimed him, though.

Lol yeah, they are brutal. I think 1 tesla dest is 30%/30% exp/dest, goes up to 30%/69% if flat out. However if using NS go hide in a safe-ish corner for a few turns and snipe before trying to alpha approach I hope to mitigate those shots a little. That then gets bunching issues for the arcing if you don't silence the ones on the side you retreat to or bugger up the range estimation.

A ravager only gets 17%/17% to kill the Night Scythe, a raider 6%/6%.

I'm currently trying to get used to guessing 42", its a bit tougher than 6"/12"/18".


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Smurfy wrote:his Venom - Splinter Cannons had like, no better targets to get

Well, if the majority of your army is on the ground, there are other things that venoms can shoot. Situationally dependent on what the rest of his army was about to do. Wyches multi-charge etc. But yeah, its a pretty good venom target