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Hey all,

Some people may recognize this topic from my previous thread:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/370699.page

Some great ideas were posed here, but rather than resurrect this old thread I thought I'd start fresh with some new proposed rules that I have come across in my games.

A friend of mine brought this one up:

Astartes Heavy Bolter

S5 Heavy 4* AP4

*An Astartes may move and fire the Heavy Bolter, treating it as an Assault 3 weapon with an 18" range.

I think this better represents the Heavy Bolters' rules at least for a SM wielding one.

They can either plant their feet/brace and lay down suppressing fire, or use the weapon's high rate of fire for close range assault on the move.

C&C welcome

I like this suggestion. Feels fluffy and balanced, but not so good it's an auto-include.

I like it, it would make the heavy bolter a lot more feasible with a relatively small change for all marine armies. But then, what about my puny guardsmen? Shouldn't they have the same rules? Remember, they are a crew of two manning the same weapon, so one could move the stand and ammo, and the other could handle the gun, just like WW2 MG teams, so it could also be justified fluff-wise. There is also Gunnery Sergeant Harker, remember he can move, shoot AND assault with his heavy bolter.

I dont think Necrons are going to be happy with a lot of gunshots from a weapon that only costs a SM 10 pts to field.

I think heavy bolters are fine, they just need to maybe drop the price so you pick them over an autocannon or something.

Just an idea, let them switch ammunition types. Pick a type at the start of the game and use it.

Heavy Bolt Frag ammo: When you fire your heavy bolter, roll to hit. Continue with the process as normal. After any models are removed, place a small blast over where the models that were removed were standing. This blast doesn't scatter, and inflicts a str3 ap- on all models under the template.

Heavy Bolt Krak Ammo: This is a Heavy 1 Str8, AP3 weapon. It also has the Rending USR, Gets Hot! and if causes an unsaved wound on an Independent Character they must take a toughness test. If it is failed, the suffer instant death, regardless of toughness.

Heavy Bolt Destructor ammo: This is a Heavy 1, Str9 AP1 weapon. In addition, it has the rending USR. If you roll a one to hit, the weapon has jammed. Place a small blast template over the weapon bearer and inflict a str 4, ap5 hit on every model underneath it. On a vehicle, this counts as a Weapon Destroyed result.

Bonde wrote:I like it, it would make the heavy bolter a lot more feasible with a relatively small change for all marine armies. But then, what about my puny guardsmen? Shouldn't they have the same rules? Remember, they are a crew of two manning the same weapon, so one could move the stand and ammo, and the other could handle the gun, just like WW2 MG teams, so it could also be justified fluff-wise. There is also Gunnery Sergeant Harker, remember he can move, shoot AND assault with his heavy bolter.

Eh, I dont think it would fit Guard fluff very much to have them move and shoot, even though it is a team of two of them, the whole idea of the heavy weapon team is that it is a more stationary team.

Actually, the assault, short ranged heavy bolter you suggested is almost identical to the old death watch heavy bolter. They had a few pages in a WD a few years back. The only difference was that it was always range 18'' assault 3