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I originally had this posted in news and rumors but it got locked because you can't ask questions in that forum if this is in the wrong place please move it as I have no other idea where it should go

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/410529.page I was reading this thread and felt kind of distressed at the thought of my "vanilla" csm becoming obsolete and uncompetetive compared to the horus heresy legions that will be in this book. It basically means that I will have to have emperor's children in my custom warband to make it competitive. This is ridiculous. I love and adore Emperor's children but my army is my army and I don't want to have to take other legions to make mine powerful. It kind of upsets me and I hope this isn't true. Can anyone shed light on this for me?

Also "chaos renegades" does that not mean chaos imperial guard? And i would just think it would be lame that we would have to take stupid Alpha legion or world eaters to make a powerful force. It really gets to me, It's like saying "Have blood angels or your marines suck"

We have absolutely no ideas beyond some hearsay and rumors. Nobody's secretly holding out the answers to all your questions just because they were waiting for someone to ask.

Assume the following: Most stuff will get better, some stuff might get worse, some stuff will be added.

To be completely honest I hear bad things about Gamesworkshop I mean the aura of the forum is GW screws everyone over. I've been sitting nicely on my CSM for a little while now and I expected another CSM codex to come out next (6th ed) not Chaos Legions. I feel as though GW is headed my way to destroy what I've spent several days working on.

I'm just scared and I want to know from veterans, such as yourself, your best assumptions. "Most stuff will get better" okay thats a good thing but kind of unspecific (I understand you can't really be specific)

But what I'm trying to get at is... Does GW have the cojones to revamp the entire Chaos Space Marines and basically destroy Vanilla CSM from being competitive? From your veteran wisdom i would like to know (I'm not being sarcastic)

I'll say it again - wait for the book to release.

I'll say it again - listen to loki.

Remember that GW is a modelling company. They sell models. The rulebooks are just there to get you to buy the models. That means you can pessimistically expect your currently competitive army to become old and busted so that you have to purchase the new hotness.


However, take this with a grain of salt, as I'm a Necron player with 2 Monoliths and hardly speaking objectively.

well, first of all chaos renegades isnt just guard, its also has renegade marines, and possibly vanilla chaos marines too. But as that rumor thread says, black legion is the veritable vanilla chaos.

shadowsnip wrote:To be completely honest I hear bad things about Gamesworkshop I mean the aura of the forum is GW screws everyone over. I've been sitting nicely on my CSM for a little while now and I expected another CSM codex to come out next (6th ed) not Chaos Legions. I feel as though GW is headed my way to destroy what I've spent several days working on.

I'm just scared and I want to know from veterans, such as yourself, your best assumptions. "Most stuff will get better" okay thats a good thing but kind of unspecific (I understand you can't really be specific)

But what I'm trying to get at is... Does GW have the cojones to revamp the entire Chaos Space Marines and basically destroy Vanilla CSM from being competitive? From your veteran wisdom i would like to know (I'm not being sarcastic)

The standard tournament builds for armies usually get flipped on their heads. To go purely into full GW paranoia mode, that would imply that Plague Marines, obliterators, and Lash princes, if that power will even be back, will get nerfed in some way. I'd expect other units that suck now to get better though, and slow selling kits like Possessed getting buffed. Vanilla CSM aren't terribly competitive anyway, so there's nothing GW could do that wouldn't help the army really.

You're acting like GW is out to get you.....just listen to -Loki- and wait for the book. Worrying about it isn't going to do anything, just sit back, paint a few marine, and wait.

Brother SRM wrote:

shadowsnip wrote:To be completely honest I hear bad things about Gamesworkshop I mean the aura of the forum is GW screws everyone over. I've been sitting nicely on my CSM for a little while now and I expected another CSM codex to come out next (6th ed) not Chaos Legions. I feel as though GW is headed my way to destroy what I've spent several days working on.

I'm just scared and I want to know from veterans, such as yourself, your best assumptions. "Most stuff will get better" okay thats a good thing but kind of unspecific (I understand you can't really be specific)

But what I'm trying to get at is... Does GW have the cojones to revamp the entire Chaos Space Marines and basically destroy Vanilla CSM from being competitive? From your veteran wisdom i would like to know (I'm not being sarcastic)

The standard tournament builds for armies usually get flipped on their heads. To go purely into full GW paranoia mode, that would imply that Plague Marines, obliterators, and Lash princes, if that power will even be back, will get nerfed in some way. I'd expect other units that suck now to get better though, and slow selling kits like Possessed getting buffed. Vanilla CSM aren't terribly competitive anyway, so there's nothing GW could do that wouldn't help the army really.

Well technically they wouldn't have to muck around with the units. They could simply make the Legion specific troops not be mix and match with units and wargear from other Chaos powers. So you could do Mark of Nurgle with Lash Princes, but not Plague Marines with Lash Princes.

Just at a guess, I would expect pure Legion armies to be powerful, but expensive. Similar in that way to the GK (though hopefully not quite that far). I don't see regular CSM being anything other than improved though, considering that they're already kinda sub-par for the points compared to the various flavors of SM troop choices.

Brother SRM wrote:

shadowsnip wrote:To be completely honest I hear bad things about Gamesworkshop I mean the aura of the forum is GW screws everyone over. I've been sitting nicely on my CSM for a little while now and I expected another CSM codex to come out next (6th ed) not Chaos Legions. I feel as though GW is headed my way to destroy what I've spent several days working on.

I'm just scared and I want to know from veterans, such as yourself, your best assumptions. "Most stuff will get better" okay thats a good thing but kind of unspecific (I understand you can't really be specific)

But what I'm trying to get at is... Does GW have the cojones to revamp the entire Chaos Space Marines and basically destroy Vanilla CSM from being competitive? From your veteran wisdom i would like to know (I'm not being sarcastic)

The standard tournament builds for armies usually get flipped on their heads. To go purely into full GW paranoia mode, that would imply that Plague Marines, obliterators, and Lash princes, if that power will even be back, will get nerfed in some way. I'd expect other units that suck now to get better though, and slow selling kits like Possessed getting buffed. Vanilla CSM aren't terribly competitive anyway, so there's nothing GW could do that wouldn't help the army really.

Well, they could make Chaos Crudd.



Anyways, why do you absolutely HAVE to change your army into 'Emperor's Children'?!
You're building a Slaaneshii warband? Emp's Children rules could become the new way to play such an army. Your army is still your own warband, using the "Slaanesh warband rules who use Emp's Children as their poster boys"

The way you put it, you make it sound like Codex: Space Marines must therefore be only Ultrasmurfs...

There will undoubtably be 'vanilla' chaos marines in a potential Legions book - they're called the Black Legion and you can paint them any colour you want!

shadowsnip wrote:To be completely honest I hear bad things about Gamesworkshop I mean the aura of the forum is GW screws everyone over. I've been sitting nicely on my CSM for a little while now and I expected another CSM codex to come out next (6th ed) not Chaos Legions. I feel as though GW is headed my way to destroy what I've spent several days working on.

I'm just scared and I want to know from veterans, such as yourself, your best assumptions. "Most stuff will get better" okay thats a good thing but kind of unspecific (I understand you can't really be specific)

But what I'm trying to get at is... Does GW have the cojones to revamp the entire Chaos Space Marines and basically destroy Vanilla CSM from being competitive? From your veteran wisdom i would like to know (I'm not being sarcastic)

Firstly, don't worry overmuch, the book is months away yet and we have no real idea of what its contents will be. Making some guesses from what seems likely, the present unfluffy mish-mash lists will remain in the book as Black Legion armies.

Secondly, do worry, because the studio are indeed willing to ruin established armies: that's exactly what the second edition codex did to the mono-Legion lists from the Realm of Chaos books.

Take your pick.