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Title pretty much says it all. I've been looking at the two and been trying to decide which is the best for a mainly footslogging IG list. This is a small list, only 750pts (you can see it yourself if you want to see what the specifics are, its towards the bottom of the thread http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/422290.page)

On one hand, the regular Commisar is fairly cheap and seems to be a decent boost to LD9 and CC. On the other side is the lord commisar, who seems to be much better(for guard at least) in CC and makes the guardsmen around him have an even higher LD of 10. Not to mention that it doesnt have to be just his unit that gets bonuses with his aura unlike the vanilla one. People have told me he can get singled out in combat though, is he tough enough to survive on his own or will he just killed in the first combat that happens? In the list I made, I have him (commisar/lord commisar) armed with a power sword and running around with a 30 man blob with power weapons and meltas/meltabombs.

I'm still new to guard and am still learning the differences. Big thanks to foolishmortal for helping me in the other thread!

< Taken by the void dragon. >

Regular commissar for blobs.

In regards to lord commissars, about the only thing I'd take one for is camo cloak. Attach him to a squad and they all have stealth. 3++ cover saves for everyone.

Edit - Wait no it would be 2++. 4+ for cover, 3+ for going to ground in cover, and 2+ for going to ground in cover with the stealth rule. So basically you're guardsmen become terminators. Also forgot to add you use your company commander to issue "get back in the fight" to have them jump back up and blast away.

< Taken by the void dragon. >

Che-Vito wrote:

Necroshea wrote:Regular commissar for blobs.

In regards to lord commissars, about the only thing I'd take one for is camo cloak. Attach him to a squad and they all have stealth. 3++ cover saves for everyone.

Edit - Wait no it would be 2++. 4+ for cover, 3+ for going to ground in cover, and 2+ for going to ground in cover with the stealth rule. So basically you're guardsmen become terminators. Also forgot to add you use your company commander to issue "get back in the fight" to have them jump back up and blast away.

Yup, and that is where I find use for them. 2+ on an objective? Yes please.
Providing Ld.10 to units within 6" (think HWS), yes please!

In small point games, the Lord Commissar can either make or break your list. The Camo Cloak is a lovely option, for the reasons listed above.

So if I put the cloak on the lord, all 30+ guardsmen in the blob get stealth as well? How does that work? Obviously, it doesnt do this if you give him carapace armor. I cant find it in the codex where it says this either. I believe you guys, I'd just like to look at it and figure out why it works like that.

As much as I like the idea of the lord giving me stealth on a huge blob, my guys are going to be busy running around attacking enemy troops, and "shouldnt" be hiding in cover too often, so I dont think he'd offer much for what I'd like to play. I was going to put melta bombs on him, but there wasnt really much point to it. Nixing him will get me a good chunk of points to upgrade my other squads.

Is there any situation where a regular commisar is just bad, besides the obvious "cap the nearest sarge due to incompetence" thing.

MrMoustaffa wrote:

Che-Vito wrote:

Necroshea wrote:Regular commissar for blobs.

In regards to lord commissars, about the only thing I'd take one for is camo cloak. Attach him to a squad and they all have stealth. 3++ cover saves for everyone.

Edit - Wait no it would be 2++. 4+ for cover, 3+ for going to ground in cover, and 2+ for going to ground in cover with the stealth rule. So basically you're guardsmen become terminators. Also forgot to add you use your company commander to issue "get back in the fight" to have them jump back up and blast away.

Yup, and that is where I find use for them. 2+ on an objective? Yes please.
Providing Ld.10 to units within 6" (think HWS), yes please!

In small point games, the Lord Commissar can either make or break your list. The Camo Cloak is a lovely option, for the reasons listed above.

So if I put the cloak on the lord, all 30+ guardsmen in the blob get stealth as well? How does that work? Obviously, it doesnt do this if you give him carapace armor. I cant find it in the codex where it says this either. I believe you guys, I'd just like to look at it and figure out why it works like that.

As much as I like the idea of the lord giving me stealth on a huge blob, my guys are going to be busy running around attacking enemy troops, and "shouldnt" be hiding in cover too often, so I dont think he'd offer much for what I'd like to play. I was going to put melta bombs on him, but there wasnt really much point to it. Nixing him will get me a good chunk of points to upgrade my other squads.

Is there any situation where a regular commisar is just bad, besides the obvious "cap the nearest sarge due to incompetence" thing.

The Stealth special rule says that if one or more models in the squad have it the entire squad benifits.

MrMoustaffa wrote:

Che-Vito wrote:

Necroshea wrote:Regular commissar for blobs.

In regards to lord commissars, about the only thing I'd take one for is camo cloak. Attach him to a squad and they all have stealth. 3++ cover saves for everyone.

Edit - Wait no it would be 2++. 4+ for cover, 3+ for going to ground in cover, and 2+ for going to ground in cover with the stealth rule. So basically you're guardsmen become terminators. Also forgot to add you use your company commander to issue "get back in the fight" to have them jump back up and blast away.

Yup, and that is where I find use for them. 2+ on an objective? Yes please.
Providing Ld.10 to units within 6" (think HWS), yes please!

In small point games, the Lord Commissar can either make or break your list. The Camo Cloak is a lovely option, for the reasons listed above.

So if I put the cloak on the lord, all 30+ guardsmen in the blob get stealth as well? How does that work? Obviously, it doesnt do this if you give him carapace armor. I cant find it in the codex where it says this either. I believe you guys, I'd just like to look at it and figure out why it works like that.

As much as I like the idea of the lord giving me stealth on a huge blob, my guys are going to be busy running around attacking enemy troops, and "shouldnt" be hiding in cover too often, so I dont think he'd offer much for what I'd like to play. I was going to put melta bombs on him, but there wasnt really much point to it. Nixing him will get me a good chunk of points to upgrade my other squads.

Is there any situation where a regular commisar is just bad, besides the obvious "cap the nearest sarge due to incompetence" thing.

I don't have a rule book in front of me, but there's a page that talks about how certain abilities are conferred upon the whole squad when someone with those qualities joins up.

Also, you're absolutely right about needing to stay mobile, but think of it this way. You're running up the field, and your opponent opens fire with a mass of shots, or perhaps a large blast template. You can either take the shot(s) and lose perhaps half your squad outright, or you can go to ground and get a 5++ save. You'll still take casualties, but it's better than just eating a template.

MrMoustaffa wrote:

On one hand, the regular Commisar is fairly cheap and seems to be a decent boost to LD9 and CC. On the other side is the lord commisar, who seems to be much better(for guard at least) in CC and makes the guardsmen around him have an even higher LD of 10.

What? Regular commissar has LD9 not 10?

*quickly checks a codex*

I'm going to slap my friend upside the codex. Always check your opponents codex- even if it's your mate, they might it up still!

-edit- a lord commissar is an IC. Therefore can be ID'd, picked out of combat all the downsides that go with that.
The commissar has 30 ablative wounds.

< Taken by the void dragon. >

Me and my friends collectively call it the trolls cloak, on account of how much it pisses people off due to concept that one person has a shiny cloak large enough to cover 30 people.

Necroshea wrote:about the only thing I'd take one for is camo cloak.

That or if you're running ogryn. Otherwise, Independent Character is just too much of a liability.

That or if you're wanting to take a cheap HQ, don't think you'll be using orders much, and don't care for the psyker.

Ailaros wrote:

Necroshea wrote:about the only thing I'd take one for is camo cloak.

That or if you're running ogryn. Otherwise, Independent Character is just too much of a liability.

That or if you're wanting to take a cheap HQ, don't think you'll be using orders much, and don't care for the psyker.

Believe it or not, but a few of your battlereps gave me the idea to try and run an infantry heavy army. I really liked how you used deepstriking/infiltrating/outflanking your guys to get them where they needed to be most. Yours was also one of the only major foot lists I could find that wasn't getting slaughtered, which deffinitely helped inspire me that, yes, it can be done. All the IG players at my club hold fast to the idea that guardsmen are only useful if they're closed up in metal boxes, and told me infantry horde was madness.

Also thanks for all you guys that cleared up the thing with the cloaks for me, I'll have to remember that in the future. If I had a HWS I'd deffinitely have to give that a try. Maybe once I get a few more dudes that'll get to be a reality. I just keep seeing this image of a commisar with a huge tarp and just draping it over his entire platoon and it cracks me up everytime.

And yeah Jihallah, I think 30 ablative wounds greatly outbenifits a +4 invulnerable save as well. I hadnt even thought about that until you mentioned it. I cant wait to get a second Commisar and then I'll have a lot of fun.

Oh yeah and one last random question, are priests useful for a blob platoon running commisars like this? I've seen some people use them to great effect, and others have them do nothing but die. It seems they'd be a huge benefit to a blob with a commisar, but with that eviscerator the dude is kind of expensive and he's an IC. It looks like he'd only be useful once you get into the bigger point games, but that might just be me

Well, regarding priests, keep them off the front line, and always assault first. I would think the priest gets better and better the bigger the blob is.

So, priests are on the edge - you can take them or not - but if you take them, they can definitely be useful. As necroshea notes, if you're up against a squad that you don't want your priest to be in B2B with, it's pretty easy to keep him out, all while still giving you a reroll on the charge, no matter where he's placed. Of course, the benefit to power blobs is that they grind on turn after turn, which a priest isn't specifically designed for. On the other hand, three rerolling eviscerator attacks on the charge is nothing to sneer at. I've had priests dig me out of otherwise impossible situations (like once when I had a blob get tangled up with a blood talon dreadnought).

In the end, they compete a lot with meltaguns, which are cheaper, but there are just some times when melta won't help (like in close combat).

I think the reason I finally gave up on priests had less to do with their capabilities, and more to do with the fact that they gave away an extra KP.

Honestly at such a low point list, the vanilla commissar is my vote purely for point effectiveness.