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1000 Pts - Necrons Roster - Harbingers of Eternity

HQ
1 Overlord, 130 pts (Warscythe; Tachyon Arrow)
1 Royal Court, 180 pts
1 Harbinger of Eternity (Harbinger of Eternity; Aeonstave; Chronometron)
1 Harbinger of Destruction (Harbinger of Destruction; Eldritch Lance)
1 Harbinger of Destruction (Harbinger of Destruction; Eldritch Lance)
1 Harbinger of Destruction (Harbinger of Destruction; Eldritch Lance)
1 Harbinger of Destruction (Harbinger of Destruction; Eldritch Lance)

Troops:
5 Warriors, 180 pts
1 Ghost Ark
5 Warriors, 180 pts
1 Ghost Ark

Fast Attack:
2 Destroyers, 120 pts (Heavy Gauss Cannon x2)
2 Destroyers, 120 pts (Heavy Gauss Cannon x2)

Heavy Support:
1 Annihilation Barge, 90 pts

Total Roster Cost: 1000

In the current tournament scene of 40k, do you see this list doing well against the upper tier armies (IG, SW, GK, BA)? or do you see it as only doing well against mid tier/lower tier armies?

The HoDs and HDestroyers will definitely be effective against MEQ armies. However, something that might prove the assist this list would be adding a solar pulse somewhere. Disallowing you opponent 36"+ for their entire first shooting phase is a great thing, especially if they tune their list specifically against Necrons (Lascannons, Krak Missile launchers, etc).

You could deploy your Warriors+Ghost Ark close to your Royal Court, then ASAP embark your Royal Court onto the Ark. Now you have a mobile tank with 13A on its front and sides plus 5 S8 AP2 shots.

McNinja said it well. Solar pulse would help a lot in this list. It looks good VS teminator armor and light transports, but not well rounded. Maybe drop down to 2 lance-teks (one w/ SP), add a CCB to your Lord (drop TA) and switch to one squad of 3 HDestroyers, and add an annihilation barge.

Squeezing in everything you like at 1000 pts is rough. You know your local metagame. Pick a few things that will work well, then balance the list around them.

Thanks for the opinions fellas.

So only 1 vote on mid tier competitiveness?

Comments.

1 - MSU warriors in Arks and 2 Ghost Arks with only 10 warriors in the army seems like a lot of points for not a lot of firepower. Not sure what to best change here though. (360 pts of S4 firepower locked up in slow moving open-topped things)

2 - A Tachyon Arrow isn't 30 points well spent, you'd be better off with a Weave and Mindshackle Scarabs, or using 30 points for something else. A 1-shot weapon at BS4 isn't consistent enough to be competitive. Competitive lists are about knowing how something is going to perform. A Tachyon Arrow has a 41% chance to stop a Rhino/Razorback (that's pop or stop). Seems expensive for 30 points. I rock it with Anrakyr, in the last 10 games, it's done something amazing once (popped a Landraider! Huzzah!). I guess with the Chronometron your odds would go up to ~ 62% (Math gets cool, because you only get one re-roll)

3 - It only takes 6 wounds to completely wipe out that destroyer unit (assuming no AP1,2,3 shots) and disallow RP saves. If you're going to take Heavy Destroyers, they need some padding.

4 - The Royal Court on foot will be a pretty swanky target for most players, with Majority toughness 4 and no 2+/3++ on the Lord, I expect them to die, quickly.

5 - There aren't enough threats on the board for your opponent to not want to get easy kills out of your Royal Court & HD units. Most players will ignore your S4 shooting arks until everything else is good and dead, probably by turn 2 or 3.

1. Why does everyone keep thinking that the warriors HAVE to ride the ghost ark? I would only ride them in there against heavy infantry armies. Otherwise one of those arks is for the Crypteks

2. Why do you assume that the Overlord is firing the tachyon arrow at BS4? I join him with with the crypteks and that chronometron makes that tachyon arrow a VERY accurate one trick pony against ANY vehicle in the game. specially in a list that has no power against a Land Raider, any raiders show up they eat the arrow and go bye bye. Also they've done the math on the chronometron already, you don't HAVE to use it on the re-roll to hit, the chornometron is great because you can use it at the best possible time. Thus it makes the Tachyon arrow all the more deadlier

3. 6 wounds on jump infantry T5 isn't easy to get. Specially when I have a very long range weapon to stay out of small arms fire with MUCH ease. I've played necrons for years, destroyers dont 'need' padding, yes it's handy, but far from a 'must'

4. Read point #1

5. See points 1 and 3.


I think way too many people here have a terrible pessimistic view when analyzing other people's list besides their own. It's like there's an assumption that NO sort of strategy will be used or something its not the first time I find someone making comments on things that should be obvious to anyone with a mind for strategy.

As in the case of the crypteks in the ark joined by the lord when arrow is needed. etc

Any how thanks to everyone who voted on the poll )

Akaiyou wrote:1. Why does everyone keep thinking that the warriors HAVE to ride the ghost ark? I would only ride them in there against heavy infantry armies. Otherwise one of those arks is for the Crypteks

Because only Warriors can take it as a designated transport, most likely. I really like the option of using it a a Cryptek death boat. You could put ten Harbingers of Destruction in there and roam the field firing S8 AP2 shots at anything that gets close enough.

2. Why do you assume that the Overlord is firing the tachyon arrow at BS4? I join him with with the crypteks and that chronometron makes that tachyon arrow a VERY accurate one trick pony against ANY vehicle in the game. specially in a list that has no power against a Land Raider, any raiders show up they eat the arrow and go bye bye. Also they've done the math on the chronometron already, you don't HAVE to use it on the re-roll to hit, the chornometron is great because you can use it at the best possible time. Thus it makes the Tachyon arrow all the more deadlier

The thing about the Tachyon arrow is that the Chronometron only adds to the cost. It's a 1 use, S10 AP1 shot. I would have very much preferred a legitimate shooting weapon for an Overlord (like... anything else). The arrow is 30 pts, plus the Chronometron Cryptek... that's 80 points for one shot than can re-roll to hit. I personally really like the Tachyon arrow, and in higher point lists I have two.

3. 6 wounds on jump infantry T5 isn't easy to get. Specially when I have a very long range weapon to stay out of small arms fire with MUCH ease. I've played necrons for years, destroyers dont 'need' padding, yes it's handy, but far from a 'must'

I agree. They can really only be touched by >24" weapons, and if you're playing your HDestroyers closer than 25" to the enemy, you're doing it wrong.

I think way too many people here have a terrible pessimistic view when analyzing other people's list besides their own. It's like there's an assumption that NO sort of strategy will be used or something its not the first time I find someone making comments on things that should be obvious to anyone with a mind for strategy.

As in the case of the crypteks in the ark joined by the lord when arrow is needed. etc

Any how thanks to everyone who voted on the poll )

I think people will assume the worst is you don't really specify a strategy with the list. There was a list earlier that was fairly obtuse and wasn't really together, but when the OP told his strategy, it started to make sense.

The Tachyon arrow is better on paper IMO, usually if you only have something that's a one time use, it fails. Drop that and give the Lord mindshackles, also get a solar pulse.

Another thing I would suggest is dropping a heavy destroyer, and putting them in 3 groups of 1, that way you can shoot at different things, or the same thing if need be.

Try to get a few more warriors, 2 5 man squads at 1000 points is a bit low.

I would say as it is now, mid tier......

Well, I don't know of a lot of tournaments that are run at 1k... but I'll give it a shot.


Sasori posted a list on another thread, and I think that he's come up with something REALLY hard to handle at 1k.

1 Overlord Warscythe
1 Catacomb Command Barge Gauss Cannon;
1 Harbinger of Destruction ; Eldritch Lance; Solar Pulse;
1 Harbinger of Destruction Eldritch Lance
9 Warriors,
1 Ghost Ark
8 Warriors,
1 Ghost Ark
1 Annihilation Barge Gauss Cannon
1 Annihilation Barge Gauss Cannon
1 Annihilation Barge Gauss Cannon


I like this as an alternative list at 1k.
Destroyer Lord w/MSS
3 groups of Tesla Immortals
5 wraiths, 3 whipcoils and 1 pistol
5 wraiths, 3 whipcoils and 1 pistol
2 Annihiliation Barge

Sasori's list is very defensive, and difficult for someone to handle at 1000. Not many people bring enough firepower to handle 6 AV13 vehicles.

My list is a version of Wraithwing. It works by hitting your opponent on turn 2 with something that is really difficult to handle, making them ignore your troops while you eat theirs.

I think there's a misconception here with the tachyon arrow

I use it with the chronometron, not the other way around.

The chornometron is great on Crypteks with HoD. The tachyon arrow also works well with the chronometron so the arrow is BOUGHT for the chornometron to use in case of AV14 on the table which NOTHING else in the necron army aside from scarabs can really take care of

Even that list that Anpu posted that apparently people have trouble handling at 1k pts by Sasori would fail miserably against lists that bring in AV14. He has NO way of dealing with it. Unless I'm missing something in there that he has for taking AV14 out.

Any how thats exactly why those 30 pts for the arrow are worth it in my opinion.

It has 2 great uses...if there's av 14 I can have a great chance of heavily damaging it. And if there isn't I can instant kill a T5 model or if I want to play defensively I can park my ghost ark far away and one shot any standard vehicle with ease.

Or if my opponent is the one playing defensively and staying out of my 36" range guns...I can say 'ok...it takes me a turn to get to you if you stay still...and you may even start running away while shooting at me which would give you the advantage...so let me destroy something that you CANT escape from while we do this dance.

There's just so much tactical flexibility to the arrow. It 'adds' to any list that is bringing in a chronometron already.

Would i recommend an arrow on it's own? Nope.
Would I recommend you buy a chornometron cryptek for the sole purpose to boost arrow damage probabily? Nope.
Would I recommend the arrow for any army already making use of chronometron to improve a unit's shooting? ABSOLUTELY!

More so if their list has no other option of dealing with AV14

Akaiyou wrote:1. Why does everyone keep thinking that the warriors HAVE to ride the ghost ark? I would only ride them in there against heavy infantry armies. Otherwise one of those arks is for the Crypteks

Well, you must buy the ark for the warriors, and disembarking to embark something else as a plan on turn one means your putting a lot of your army in one spot, as an opponent, I know where the threats are, and Ghost Ark's are very squishy (open-topped AV13 pops, easy)

Akaiyou wrote:
2. Why do you assume that the Overlord is firing the tachyon arrow at BS4? I join him with with the crypteks and that chronometron makes that tachyon arrow a VERY accurate one trick pony against ANY vehicle in the game. specially in a list that has no power against a Land Raider, any raiders show up they eat the arrow and go bye bye. Also they've done the math on the chronometron already, you don't HAVE to use it on the re-roll to hit, the chornometron is great because you can use it at the best possible time. Thus it makes the Tachyon arrow all the more deadlier

Because his BS is 4, that's why. I did the math for you. 62% chance to pop a rhino once per game is hardly worth 30 points. -- I do agree that a Chronometron Cryptek is cool though. Rock him, he's awesome.

Akaiyou wrote:
3. 6 wounds on jump infantry T5 isn't easy to get. Specially when I have a very long range weapon to stay out of small arms fire with MUCH ease. I've played necrons for years, destroyers dont 'need' padding, yes it's handy, but far from a 'must'

Two Dakka Preds average about 3 wounds each. Destroyers in the last edition were more robust because you *could* get the 4+ WBB roll even if the whole squad was wiped out. That's no longer true.

The fact is, Destroyers are not a competitive choice, no matter what you do to them. In fact, the other poster's suggestion to take units of one is *even worse*. It's okay buddy, you can admit it, destroyers are terrible. They really are. When 6th Ed comes out and they always hit on 3's and 2's and preferred enemy works for shooting... different story. For now, they are one of the worst units in the codex. I understand how you might feel differently, so we'll have to agree to disagree.

Akaiyou wrote:
4. Read point #1

I did. Ghost Arks are not competetive, Sorry, but 115 points for a slow open-topped AV 13 skimmer with a bunch of S4 shooting is bad. So when that Ark get's popped (turn 2 or 3), your court is easy pickings.

Akaiyou wrote:

5. See points 1 and 3.

All dead by turn 2 or 3, in almost every game, unless you only play against baby seals, that is.

Akaiyou wrote:
I think way too many people here have a terrible pessimistic view when analyzing other people's list besides their own. It's like there's an assumption that NO sort of strategy will be used or something its not the first time I find someone making comments on things that should be obvious to anyone with a mind for strategy.

As in the case of the crypteks in the ark joined by the lord when arrow is needed. etc

Any how thanks to everyone who voted on the poll )

I don't think so. I'm pretty open minded, in-fact I've given the thumbs up to many Ghost Ark lists when I personally think the Ghost Ark is terrible. You're list is mid-to-low teir. That's my opinion. If you disagree, that's fine, you're free to.

Until 6th Ed is released, I think a lot of units in the Necron codex are going to be considered sub-par. There has to be a reason that Praetorians are a 40 point 1 attack model rather than a 20 point one.

Why do I get the feeling DS rules will be changed in the next edition?

loreweaver wrote:
Well, you must buy the ark for the warriors, and disembarking to embark something else as a plan on turn one means your putting a lot of your army in one spot, as an opponent, I know where the threats are, and Ghost Ark's are very squishy (open-topped AV13 pops, easy)

- Err no...dedicated transport doesn't mean that the unit MUST arrive in it, who told you that lie? It simply means that the unit it's paid is the only one that can ARRIVE inside it. You can just put the vehicle in there empty and embark another unit turn 1. This is legal...and what most people do. So how exactly do you suddenly know exactly where MY WHOLE army is going to be just from 2 units being where ever i particularly decide to place them. Even if what you said was true...that's only 1 more unit at that spot...that's hardly 'a lot' of my army. 3 units out of an entire army list is not even half.

Oh Ghost Arks are REALLY squishy? Wow tell the rest of us what your secret is! Most people agree that AV13 is solid wether open-topped or not. But do please enlighten me...How many of your lascannons are you planning to fire at it? How many does it take to reliably pen it? How many will it take to destroy it? Oh wait that's right....most armies nowadays are NOT using a lot of S9...they are all mostly relying on S8 and S7...mmm how many of those does it take to get through AV13? Do the math bro and then talk to me about how super squishy a ghost ark is.

I agree AV13 is a far cry from AV14 but AV13 is still AV13...and that is solid against the current metagame. It soaks up a hell of a lot of S8 shots from MOST armies. (I know someone is bound to bring DE up so let me cut you off right there)

loreweaver wrote:
Because his BS is 4, that's why. I did the math for you. 62% chance to pop a rhino once per game is hardly worth 30 points. -- I do agree that a Chronometron Cryptek is cool though. Rock him, he's awesome.

- Yeah because in EVERY game I play i'm always going to be in a rush to launch my Tachyon Arrow at a rhino. You read my mind. Oh that's a land raider next to your rhino? Mmm...nope i'll aim for the Rhino/Razorback/Insert Easily Destroyed Vehicle Here

Of course!

loreweaver wrote:
Two Dakka Preds average about 3 wounds each. Destroyers in the last edition were more robust because you *could* get the 4+ WBB roll even if the whole squad was wiped out. That's no longer true.

The fact is, Destroyers are not a competitive choice, no matter what you do to them. In fact, the other poster's suggestion to take units of one is *even worse*. It's okay buddy, you can admit it, destroyers are terrible. They really are. When 6th Ed comes out and they always hit on 3's and 2's and preferred enemy works for shooting... different story. For now, they are one of the worst units in the codex. I understand how you might feel differently, so we'll have to agree to disagree.

- What the hell? Dude you must've been playing necrons blindfolded without reading the codex...if your squad is wiped out you do NOT get WBB. Unless you have another unit of the same type next to where your last guy died, within 6". And with the mobility destoryers had, you would often separate the squads, otherwise you were pie plate bait. Destroyers are still competitive lets agree to disagree, they are less powerful vs vehicles this is true but more powerful versus infantry namely MEQ and they got a point cost reduction. This is an IMPROVEMENT. In the previous edition necrons lacked any serious threat to rhinos and other AV11 vehicles the destroyers were FORCED to perform a dual role in the army and were once one of the few units you could actually rely on, this is no longer true I own 13 destroyers and played the previous edition extensively I know what im talking about.

On another note are you seriously comparing dakka predators to heavy destroyers?? Ok i'll oblige let's see....

2 dakka predators = 170 pts (SM & SW) or 200 (BA)
AV13 Vehicle
Autocannon + Heavy Bolter spoonsons
48" range + 36" Range

vs

3 Destroyers = 180 pts
Jump Infantry
3 Heavy Gauss Cannon
36" Range

First of all who the hell seriously uses that kind of predator in a competitive list? I don't see SW taking that over Long Fangs, I don't see SM taking that over Devastators, BA is certainly not taking them.

Anyway lets assume for argument's sake that you took them in your list and all that's ont he field is your 2 preds and my 3 destroyers.

Reasons why my destroyers would completely own your preds

3 shots BS4 = 2 hits vs AV13 = 50% chance to glance/33% chance to Pen
Mobility...Jump Infantry can easily hide behind cover BLOS and move out conveniently to shoot and either gain a cover save or outright block LOS to one of your preds.
Deep Strike. What happens if I just deep strike on the side of your preds? if they are perfectly lined up (parking lot) you'll have to move them in order to shoot, and as mentioned early whenever I shoot at you i'll be doing damage with those 3 heavy gauss cannons. So what happens if i wreck one from the side? What will the other do? It can't escape my range, it can't do enough damage if it has to move to shoot either.
Range. Let's not get it twisted, I'm the one outranging you! You only have 1 gun 48" if you can shoot me I can move up and shoot you. Where as if you don't move you can't shoot me with everything unless im already close enough to shoot you.

I'm sorry man but you picked a very bad example to explain why destroyers supposedly suck.

loreweaver wrote:
All dead by turn 2 or 3, in almost every game, unless you only play against baby seals, that is.

- This coming from the guy that runs dakka preds and thinks they'll out perform my heavy destroyers. Consider yourself a baby seal then. Or feel free to jump into a game of vassal with me and school me on the awesomeness of your dakka pred list. Would love to see them take out all the infantry on my table at 1k pts...oh wait...jeez i hardly have any what will those preds do all game? oh yeah they are tryign to kill the heavy destroyers lmao....

Please pleaseee show me your tournament list that uses dakka preds and that rips through my whole army by turn 2 or 3 and then is able to deal with other tournament armies. Go ahead i'll wait...

loreweaver wrote:
I don't think so. I'm pretty open minded, in-fact I've given the thumbs up to many Ghost Ark lists when I personally think the Ghost Ark is terrible. You're list is mid-to-low teir. That's my opinion. If you disagree, that's fine, you're free to.

Thank you, you finally sort of answered the actual question posted in the thread.
But yeah let's agree to disagree mr.dakka preds own destroyers


Automatically Appended Next Post:

McNinja wrote:Until 6th Ed is released, I think a lot of units in the Necron codex are going to be considered sub-par. There has to be a reason that Praetorians are a 40 point 1 attack model rather than a 20 point one.

Why do I get the feeling DS rules will be changed in the next edition?

I couldn't agree more...there's a lot of weird stuff in the codex that doesnt really make sense at the moment.

I think this discussion is getting a wee bit out of control...

bombboy1252 wrote:I think this discussion is getting a wee bit out of control...

I don't take well to sarcasm and mockery I suppose.
Aswell as people that can't hand an opinion without being rude -shrugs-

Akaiyou wrote:
Even that list that Anpu posted that apparently people have trouble handling at 1k pts by Sasori would fail miserably against lists that bring in AV14. He has NO way of dealing with it. Unless I'm missing something in there that he has for taking AV14 out.

I agree with your argument for including the arrow in a unit that has a chronometron.

I'd just like to add that there are other effective ways of dealing with a vehicle other than destroying it outright. Gauss weapons still auto-glance on rolls of 6, and with enough 'weak' gauss weapons you can destroy all the weapons and immobilize any vehicle (except maybe that Imperial Armor Apocolypse 2nd edition tank that is just broken). I'd argue that the arks and warriors in Sasori's list is pretty close to enough.
Also, the Overlord with warscythe and the CCBarge wreck vehicles because the sweep attacks are made with the warscythe. It does roll 7+2d6 for armor penetration.

Then again, how many AV 14 vehicles are going to show up in a 1k game? I think that 6 AV13 is pretty rough.

Anpu-adom wrote:

Akaiyou wrote:
Even that list that Anpu posted that apparently people have trouble handling at 1k pts by Sasori would fail miserably against lists that bring in AV14. He has NO way of dealing with it. Unless I'm missing something in there that he has for taking AV14 out.

I agree with your argument for including the arrow in a unit that has a chronometron.

I'd just like to add that there are other effective ways of dealing with a vehicle other than destroying it outright. Gauss weapons still auto-glance on rolls of 6, and with enough 'weak' gauss weapons you can destroy all the weapons and immobilize any vehicle (except maybe that Imperial Armor Apocolypse 2nd edition tank that is just broken). I'd argue that the arks and warriors in Sasori's list is pretty close to enough.
Also, the Overlord with warscythe and the CCBarge wreck vehicles because the sweep attacks are made with the warscythe. It does roll 7+2d6 for armor penetration.

Then again, how many AV 14 vehicles are going to show up in a 1k game? I think that 6 AV13 is pretty rough.

I completely agree with the gauss argument as someone that HEAVILY relied on it in the previous codex...(we didn't have much choice in the matter though) a mass of gauss can disable vehicles pretty decently.

The problem is Sasori does NOT have a mass of gauss, in fact he hardly has any in his list that you posted up. His list lacks any serious AV14 threat. I also use the warscythe with CCB and i'm one of the major supporters of that set up...but it's NOT going to punch through AV14 reliably. I've chased Land Raiders with a furious charge Trygon and found it extremely difficult to deal with.

Then one multi-melta shot to that CCB and it's gone, and the player with the raider can just parade across the table confident that Sasori has nothing to respond to it with. Ghost Arks aren't going to move up on a multi-melta totting raider.

1 Overlord Warscythe
1 Catacomb Command Barge Gauss Cannon;
1 Harbinger of Destruction ; Eldritch Lance; Solar Pulse;
1 Harbinger of Destruction Eldritch Lance
9 Warriors,
1 Ghost Ark
8 Warriors,
1 Ghost Ark
1 Annihilation Barge Gauss Cannon
1 Annihilation Barge Gauss Cannon
1 Annihilation Barge Gauss Cannon


I like this as an alternative list at 1k.
Destroyer Lord w/MSS
3 groups of Tesla Immortals
5 wraiths, 3 whipcoils and 1 pistol
5 wraiths, 3 whipcoils and 1 pistol
2 Annihiliation Barge

The alternative you suggested is even worst....at dealing with AV14.

While im completely with you that there wont be MANY raiders out there at 1k. It's not like they're won't be ANY, if we are talking about 'all-comers' list...neglecting any defense versus AV14 seems to me like a major flaw.

There's AV14 on many armies, hell even Orks have AV14 and good defense to protect it from a potential charging CCB.

That was my point...in this list that's my insurance against the odd scenario where someone will show up with AV14 to be a douche at 1k pts. I hate those games where I have no defense against a certain unit that could show up by a variety of opponents.

Yesterday my friend lost a game with his Tau versus a kid...a noob...didn't even know all his rules simply because the dice gods decided that the land raider should survive 2 railguns and 6 point blank range fusion blaster shots (meltagun equivalent)

This was a 1500 pt game, there was plenty on the table but after his land raider killing units were gone the game is practically a throwaway.

So imagine what happens when playing smaller games and you don't even have 2 railguns and 6 fusion blasters to back you up....

Praetorians are fine.

I had a D-lord and praetorians take out 2 lash princes, a squad from a popped rhino, a unit of 3 terminators, and a unit of 10 daemons... Oh ya,and a unit of plague marines.

--

The old Necron book was about supporting units with redundant units. 3-5 destroyers with 3-5 destroyers near by to get.a WBB roll.

--

Tachyon arrow is a gimmick. It's fun, you'll enjoy it. It should be used with Anrkyr only.

9 warriors in a gauss ark means I can shoot 14 gauss weapons on one side and 5 out the other. Having the two arks work in tandem, and that is a substantial amount of firepower. Not great, mind you, but substantial. Between 12 and 24", and that's 2-3 glancing hits on your landraider. For the initial volley a shaken or stunned result is a good result (better than a weapon destroyed, actually!). They are out of the action for 1 complete turn.

Granted, I'll need to continue to apply pressure on that vehicle in future turns, but the vehicle isn't shooting back and the opponent takes the risk of either bailing out to get some use out of the troops inside (where they can get shot up) or sit like so much rubble on the battlefield.

As for the second list... Wraiths have rending on all their attacks. The extra D3 (when the Wraith rolls a 6 to hit) isn't something to sneeze at. The Annihilation barges put out plenty of strength 7 shot (granted, they'll never be able to explode it with AP-).

This is likely a moot point anyway. The leaked 6th text says that repeated results on the vehicle damage table increase the damage. For example, a 4th weapon destroyed result on a vehicle with only 3 weapons results in the vehicle being immobilized. You will literally be able to glance a vehicle to death, again. (YEAH FOR GAUSS!!!).

I really recommend keeping a couple of the crypteks out of the court in the squads. You can let the squad get whittled down to the cryptek and since he counts as a squad member, very technically, the arks will be able to keep men coming back up.
I also like the idea of having some of the firing split up. The arks do offer a lot of protection on foot, though you are probably aware of that.

One thing that spooks me, is that with a phalanx advance that warrior arks love, you are kind of vulnerable to mobility, and your mobile, fragile elements will lose support. And I'm sure you're already aware how much finesse heavy destroyers take.

Tell us how it does! I love lists with heavy destroyers and I love lists with court boats! I'm just so skeptical...

Anpu-adom wrote:9 warriors in a gauss ark means I can shoot 14 gauss weapons on one side and 5 out the other. Having the two arks work in tandem, and that is a substantial amount of firepower. Not great, mind you, but substantial. Between 12 and 24", and that's 2-3 glancing hits on your landraider. For the initial volley a shaken or stunned result is a good result (better than a weapon destroyed, actually!). They are out of the action for 1 complete turn.

Granted, I'll need to continue to apply pressure on that vehicle in future turns, but the vehicle isn't shooting back and the opponent takes the risk of either bailing out to get some use out of the troops inside (where they can get shot up) or sit like so much rubble on the battlefield.

As for the second list... Wraiths have rending on all their attacks. The extra D3 (when the Wraith rolls a 6 to hit) isn't something to sneeze at. The Annihilation barges put out plenty of strength 7 shot (granted, they'll never be able to explode it with AP-).

This is likely a moot point anyway. The leaked 6th text says that repeated results on the vehicle damage table increase the damage. For example, a 4th weapon destroyed result on a vehicle with only 3 weapons results in the vehicle being immobilized. You will literally be able to glance a vehicle to death, again. (YEAH FOR GAUSS!!!).

My point is that the land raider will out range the ghost ark and do more damage to it than it will take in return. 1 multi-melta after moving cruising speed and if that ark as you said is actively trying to get within 12" - 24" of the raider it will go boom with ease. You simply can't win that match up. I didn't even get into the discussion of which raider it is, a godhammer raider can drop both arks with TL lascannons before they get in it's range, albeit with 2 or 3 turns of fire, but at 48" and PotMS this is very very possible. Other raiders can use multimelta autocannon to achieve this

It's simply a losing match.

Wraiths rend but they'll be forced to hit on 6s and its not like the units inside the raider wont disembark...

toss all those wraiths at a cruising speed moving land raider and you'll do 0 damage over n over. 6s to hit, 6s to pen = you need 36 attacks to get 1 rend. And even then...you have to roll a D3 after and hope for another 5/6. It just doesnt work the raider will own the map against those lists.

6th edition wont come till end of the year so for now it applies well. And i'm pretty sure that leak is fake. Way too complexed for a game system focused on streamlining and making the game easier to play. Not to mention it has a lot of weird stuff added in, that's probably someone's house rules.

@ Lucre

I'll be testing out the list next week i'll post up results

Akaiyou wrote:I think way too many people here have a terrible pessimistic view when analyzing other people's list besides their own. It's like there's an assumption that NO sort of strategy will be used or something its not the first time I find someone making comments on things that should be obvious to anyone with a mind for strategy.

Would you prefer everyone smile & nod, and then you take your list to a tournament and get hammered? If you're just looking to get you ego stroked, I can assure you that an Internet message board is not the place to be.

Anyway, moving on to some constructive criticism:

1) I would break off two of the Harbingers of Destruction and get them to lead the Warrior units. That will spread your Str 8 shooting to multiple units and make it harder for your opponent to quell the high-strength shooting completely. Additionally, that way you have multiple ablative wounds to suffer before you lose even your first Str 8 shot, as opposed to keeping all the Lanceteks in one unit where the first wound you suffer removes a Str 8 shot.

2) You need a Solar Pulse. Its effects are always worth the 20 points.

3) Don't listen to the fools that say 'Destroyers suck'; Destroyers murder MEQ and Heavy Destroyers will turn mechspam into a junkyard. However, I'm always hesitant to field them in units smaller than 4. Even if you make the units a 2/2 split, that will give you 2 ablative wounds per unit before you lose a Heavy Destroyer, as well as give you some more firepower to kill MEQ after the transports are popped. Even if you had to splice the two units together and take 3x Heavy Destroyers and 2x Destroyers in a single unit, it would be more worthwhile in terms of overall offensive power and survivability.

4) I like Catacomb Command Barges. This is how you deal with AV 14, just like in Sasori's list. You turbo-boost across the AV 14 tank and swing 3x times at Str 7 + 2D6. One average roll is a glance, and anything slightly above average is a pen. I would consider adding a CCB for your Overlord and getting rid of the Tachyon Arrow. You'll do better with the CCB, and after it pops a tank, you can still keep using it.

Overall, here is what I would do:

Remove:
2x Harbinger of Destruction, 1x Harbinger of Eternity, 1x Tachyon Arrow, 1x Heavy Destroyer = 200 points gained

Add:
1x Catacomb Command Barge, 2x Destroyers, 1x Solar Pulse, 1x Mindshackle Scarabs = 195 points spent

Total Roster Cost = 995

Between the 3x Heavy Destroyers and the CCB you shouldn't have any trouble with AV 14 at 1k points, and when you add in the 2x Lanceteks on top of that, AV 11 should drop very fast. The army is geared towards killing MEQ, is fast and mobile. I don't like the Necrons at 1k because they don't scale down as nicely as some other armies, but I think this should give you a very solid TAC list at that level.

Not that i was looking for stuff to edit on my list as I didn't ask for it...but i have to admit that's one of your most 'constructive' posts i've seen azazel.

Even though you started off rather rude...just because I won't play a list that YOU would play, doesn't mean i will be getting 'hammered' as you say unless we are playing this tournament with alcohol in hand and some ladies cheering on.

But yeah nice post I may consider building that list up as an alternative to play test. It's very sound in reasoning.

Heh, I didn't mean it to sound like "you'll get beat if you don't play a list that I would play". I meant it to sound like "you'll get beat if you put all your high-value targets in one unit and set up your anti-tank so that RP doesn't help them".

I just assumed that you were looking for critiques by virtue of posting in this forum, and as such I included my suggestions, which is just my opinion. However, if you merely wanted an answer to the question in your original post, here it is:

In the current tournament scene of 40k, I do not see the original list doing well against upper tier armies like SW, IG or GK. It will be somewhere in the middle of the rest of the pack, but any good player with a crummy list will know immediately how to hamstring the list.

Either way, I hope that helps, and best of luck.

Fair enough thank you.

I know I give you a hard time, but I think it would be difficult dor anyone to say a particular list is "Upper Tier" while the codex is still so new.

Keep trying things out.

PS: I still think destroyers cost too much for what they bring to the table :-)
Edit: <Dalek Voice> Destroyers are better at one thing, they are better at dying.

Akaiyou wrote:1000 Pts - Necrons Roster - Harbingers of Eternity

HQ
1 Overlord, 130 pts (Warscythe; Tachyon Arrow)
1 Royal Court, 180 pts
1 Harbinger of Eternity (Harbinger of Eternity; Aeonstave; Chronometron)
1 Harbinger of Destruction (Harbinger of Destruction; Eldritch Lance)
1 Harbinger of Destruction (Harbinger of Destruction; Eldritch Lance)
1 Harbinger of Destruction (Harbinger of Destruction; Eldritch Lance)
1 Harbinger of Destruction (Harbinger of Destruction; Eldritch Lance)

Troops:
5 Warriors, 180 pts
1 Ghost Ark
5 Warriors, 180 pts
1 Ghost Ark

Fast Attack:
2 Destroyers, 120 pts (Heavy Gauss Cannon x2)
2 Destroyers, 120 pts (Heavy Gauss Cannon x2)

Heavy Support:
1 Annihilation Barge, 90 pts

Total Roster Cost: 1000

In the current tournament scene of 40k, do you see this list doing well against the upper tier armies (IG, SW, GK, BA)? or do you see it as only doing well against mid tier/lower tier armies?

1: I would drop the Eternity Cryptek and take a Solar Pulse on one of the others. Also, the Tachyon arrow is a bit pointless, you appear to have plenty of AT firepower already. An additional point is that if you're taking the Overlord with one of the Warrior units, the Warscythe is a bit unnecessary, as you don't want them to get into CC, consider dropping it for a Staff of Light to get a bit extra firepower unless you actually plan to get him into combat, or upgrade him to a Phaeron and attach him to a 10+ member Warrior unit.

2: The Warrior units seem a bit thin, maybe consider dropping a Ghost Ark and boosting one unit up to 10 members.

3: 4 Heavy Destroyers, not bad for AT firepower.

I would say this list is pretty damn good for 1k actually. There is a lot of fire power to bear here.
You are going to have a lot of trouble with objectives though, since you only have 2 troops.

Still, with that much fire power, you could probably even it out a bit.