Bolt pistol question

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**Gharron**

I guess this could go for any model
My question is, does the model have to have the weapon for it to be used. This question was raised when I started putting my bikers together and realized they don't have bolt pistol arms. Do I have to have the pistols on the marine for me to be able to shoot? What id other models in the squad have them? (probably sounds stupid but I don't have a ruleook yet and I don't really know alot about the game ><

**Typhon the Storm Giant**

If a unit is said to have say a bolt pistol and close combat weapon; so long as it doesn't also suggest bolter

- then as long as you choose which one your using it as and remain consistent then it doesn't need to be shown on the model as far as I know for such thingsas bikers

**MFletch**

It is generally accepted that models would have a pistol holder somewhere.
It tends to be things like meltas and plasma pistols people demand the model shows. This is usually so an opponent can see at a glance which unit has which weapon but also so when you remove models they'll know which weapons you have removed.

**The dude with Grey Knight**

If it's the basic profile it is accepted that the model has that wepaon.

However, if you upgrade the model I suggest you put the upgrade on the model as it annoys me when an opponent doesn't have the weapon he says he has on the model.

For example; if he says my model has a Plasma Gun but it is actually got a Bolter.....

It also makes the game easier to play

**wolfenstolme**

I remember having this thought when I first got Space marine bikes, but as it's more of a side arm then anything and is standard equipment, I wouldn't imagine most opponents would take exception if you didn't model it. By the time you get a bit more serious you should have plenty of spare bolt pistols to model on.

**labmouse42**

Don't sweat it on your bikes. People are not going to call you on it.

**Gharron**

I THINK I have the extra weapons but I'm not totally sure yet. I've got about 30 marines left to put together and I'm not sure how many spare arms I have left. I just didn't know if I was going to be able to fire heavy bolter - bolt pistols - yada yada because I didn't have the weapon arm on there. I MAY actually have some but I'm not sure >< I know I'm going to have some melta weapons on the bikes and I ordered them from GW =)

**Vasara**

You don't actually need a bolt pistol for your bikers since they all have tvinlinked bolters and are relentless. You would benefit nothing from that pistol.

**ARKTOR.RECLAIMUS**

If it is part of the LISTED, provided, standard wargear, and I believe it is, then there is no need to model it, particularly if your model doesnt have three hands, or is riding a bike.

Example: a tactical marine with a missile launcher is understood to have a pistol as well- since the missile launcher is an upgrade to the bolter, and tactical marines are understood to have a bolter and a bolt pistol. erego, no need to model something that your model cant NOT have.

For the sake of fairplay, DO make sure that you discuss it with your opponent prior to starting the game, of course. But other than that, you should be solid!

**Gharron**

Awesome! Thanks so much guys lol I put two together and went...wait a minute...ah crap >< >< so is the chainsword understood or is that JUST the bolt pistol?

**Grey Templar**

regular space marines don't have Chainswords. Only a bolter and bolt pistol.

if you swap the sergeants bolter for a chainsword you must model it.

**BlapBlapBlap**

If it's standard, yes it's understood. If not, well...

**Gharron**

Do I need to put the chainsword on EVERY marine? and I have 2 power fists seargents so I knew I would have to put those on. But the others NEED the chainsword?

**Grey Templar**

No as regular marines don't have, nor can they ever get, chainswords.

Only Sergeants, characters, and Assault marines can get chainswords. and for Characters and Sergeants they are upgrades that, most of the time, will be swapped for something else(like a Powerfist or power sword)

**Gharron**

ok, so my bikes won't be using them then. So I don't need to model them on bikes correct? (My assault marines have them =) so I KNOW they're getting em)

**BlapBlapBlap**

No you don't. Unless you play Ravenwing and WANT to give them Chainswords...

**notprop**

Being only basic CC weapons, I would suggest that any marine could get a chainsword.

**Grey Templar**

Except that would give them an additional attack because they also have Bolt Pistols. It would require them to recost the units.

**ARKTOR.RECLAIMUS**

I don't frequently use bikers, so you'll forgive my lack of knowledge of their wargear, but...

In your dex, there are entries for each unit. The one that says WARGEAR outlines the things which it is implied all units of that type always bring to battle.

So, tactical marines do not NEED to have frag/krak grenades modeled on, nor bolt pistols, etc etc.

Any UPGRADES, suc as "may swap their X for a Y" MUST be modeled, i.e. WYSIWYG. If a tac marine swaps his boltGUN for a plasma gun, the plasma gun needs to be modeled. You don't need to model the bolt pistol as well to prove that he has it, as it is understood that he has, in that you haven't done anything to alter that attribute of his wargear.

So whatever WARGEAR comes standard for your bikers, it is assumed that the already have it... somewhere. maybe in a side compartment. If they upgrade to a plasma pistol, or something of that nature, model it, even if it is just GS'ing a holder of some kind on the bike. saavy?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Grey Templar wrote:Except that would give them an additional attack because they also have Bolt Pistols. It would require them to recost the units.

I would have to disagree. The marines already have 1 base attack, and 1 for the pistol as you said. So, if you wanted to model 1 with a chainsword and say that that is the source of their given 1 CC attack, I would think it'd e acceptable. For example, I do a little work involving the combat blade that comes with tac squads, and fashion bayonettes for my boltguns. The rationalle there is that the combat blade provides an explanation for the standard CC attack. I just dont prefer to imagine the finest of humanities warriors rifle-butt whipping a MC... at least give them a baby blade or something

**Grey Templar**

Bolt pistols don't give them an additional attack because they don't have a CCW.

Pistols count as a CCW in combat. you only gain +1A if you have a 2nd CCW. you must have 2 CCWs to gain an additional attack, marines only have 1(their pistol)

marines only have 1 attack, 2 when they charge. If they gained a CCW they would have an additional attack.

**4oursword**

Imho, Rule Of Cool takes precedent. Got an awesome tactical marine beheading a 'nid with a chainsword? Fine by me.

**Gharron**

So I need to look at their wargear and decide from there. Nice, I was just wondering that. How would they fight in CC with no weapons...off to the codex

**ARKTOR.RECLAIMUS**

The donkey punch is sanctioned in the astartes, and a method preferred by many space marine chapters I might add! lol

**Gharron**

pg. 93 of the BA codes
add up to five bike +points yada yada
Biker seargent - swaps weapons for yada yada points
bike seargent takes melta bomba - yada points
Bikers can swap weapons for flamers meltas plasmas
add 1 attakc bike to the squad for yada points making the heavy bolter a mm for yada points.
Nothing about upgrading to their chainswords. Does that make it implied they have the weapons?

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ignore the typos in the above^

**Lordhat**

Gharron wrote:
Nothing about upgrading to their chainswords. Does that make it implied they have the weapons?

Not one bit. It's really not that hard. If it's not listed, they don't get it.

**Gharron**

Good, saves me the time of having to put one on

**notprop**

Grey Templar wrote:Except that would give them an additional attack because they also have Bolt Pistols. It would require them to recost the units.

Fair dues. I did mean where they had CCS but Not being a SM player forgot the detail. It's funny that SMs nolonger have even a knife in their kit.