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let's say I just had a battle between vanilla Space Marines and some regular Chaos Space Marines.

I understand CSM get different when you consider their other units, but at the most basic level, say marines and rhinos, is there a really significant difference?

i ask this because right now i'm starting a small CSM army, and I was thinking in the near future of also collecting a few regular Space Marines just so I don't get burnt out on painting only CSM. but I am curious to how different their basic marines are, and if they'd have some advantages during a straight up fight.

thanks for any help

Basic CSMs get a BP/CCW in addition to their Bolters.

SM have Combat Tactics.

Coolyo294 wrote:Basic CSMs get a BP/CCW in addition to their Bolters.

Sadly, in the old days, basic tactical Marines had a bolt pistol and CCW. At some point, they were gimped for whatever reason. First when they took away the bolt pistol in 3rd Ed (and the combat knife was reduced to being meaningless as a CCW), and then when they gave back the pistol but took away the CCW in 5th.

Morale is another big one. Space Marines can always regroup and can't get overrun, while Chaos Marines have a higher base leadership and the opportunity to reroll. Also, Chaos Marines can get icons which change the unit stats, like +1 toughness or attack or whatever.

To OP.

Are looking at it from a background perspective or a game rules perspective.

Steelmage99 wrote:To OP.

Are looking at it from a background perspective or a game rules perspective.

mostly game rules, although if you do have some cool background information that's always welcome

because of the price of their models (i.e. 50 dollars for like 5 plague marines that are finecast), general playability, and stuff like that, I don't really know if I will continue to advance my CSM army past what I have now until their new codex drops later this year. So right now I have an army that's basically composed of chaos space marines, with a few extras thrown in. What I am really curious about is that if I had an army with regular space marines, (like Ultramarines) would it be the same thing? or are there a few differences between the standard marines?

Are you wanting to use the Chaos Marines as loyalists or vice versa? If so then unless their newly turned renegades with very little incography it wouldn't be a very good transition. Tactical marines are fairly standard in their options whereas Chaos marines can be much more versatile (not saying that the loyalists aren't though). Price really shouldn't be an issue if your buying off of Amazon or the like (they're still charging the old prices for their box sets) as really the basic chaos marines box set can cover you for all the upgrades if you have a decent skill with greenstuff (bar the slaanesh stuff which'll need plasticard).

Brother SRM wrote:Morale is another big one. Space Marines can always regroup and can't get overrun, while Chaos Marines have a higher base leadership and the opportunity to reroll. Also, Chaos Marines can get icons which change the unit stats, like +1 toughness or attack or whatever.

Since when do chaos get the chance to reroll LD checks? If they take IoCG then yeah, but otherwise I don't think they get a free reroll, unless I missed something huge.

Sunoccard wrote:

Brother SRM wrote:Morale is another big one. Space Marines can always regroup and can't get overrun, while Chaos Marines have a higher base leadership and the opportunity to reroll. Also, Chaos Marines can get icons which change the unit stats, like +1 toughness or attack or whatever.

Since when do chaos get the chance to reroll LD checks? If they take IoCG then yeah, but otherwise I don't think they get a free reroll, unless I missed something huge.

That they have to take the upgrade is a kind of a moot point man. Bit nitpicky. =P

CSM don't have "And they shall know no fear", "combat squads", and "combat tactics". They make up for it using icons of chaos glory, etc.

In essence; Space Marine units are flexible and reliable, with generally low damage-dealing potential but high survivability for theirs points cost. Chaos Space Marine units are more specialized (with a couple notable exceptions) and more expensive, generally either dealing more damage than Space Marines or being ludicrously hard to kill, but not both.

Tactical squads can Combat Squad to form a heavy weapon squad and a close-range squad, and use Combat Tactics to selectively fail morale checks in order to leave assault. They also get a free missile launcher and flamer if you take a max-sized squad, giving you a backfield camping unit and a midfield objective-taking unit for one low price. As a final bonus, ATSKNF makes it very, VERY unlikely that a Tactical Squad will ever run off the board, and impossible for them to be destroyed by a Sweeping Advance.

Chaos Space Marine squads are more powerful in close combat (extra attack from having 2 CCWs), cannot Combat Squad, and can take two special weapons instead of one special and one heavy. That being so, CSM make MUCH better assault troops, but worse objective-campers.
Taking an Icon can make a squad of CSM very much more powerful (increased Toughness, increased Initiative, extra attack, or 5+ Invulnerable save) but it also makes them much more expensive. In fact, "more powerful but more expensive" is probably a good way to consider the difference, overall. CSM lack ATSKNF, but have a higher Leadership score and can take a very cheap Icon to let them re-roll failed tests, so they really don't have many morale problems either.

Once you get into cult units like Plague Marines and Berzerkers, of course, the differences become stark.

Berserker,
MOT only grants base-line CSM a 6++ save.

Vendetta 476 wrote:Berserker,
MOT only grants base-line CSM a 6++ save.

Ah, my mistake. Sorry, haven't played CSM since they were using the 3.5 Codex.

Dr. Spaceman wrote:

Steelmage99 wrote:To OP.

Are looking at it from a background perspective or a game rules perspective.

mostly game rules, although if you do have some cool background information that's always welcome

because of the price of their models (i.e. 50 dollars for like 5 plague marines that are finecast),

I would not buy the 5 plague marines that are finecast, instead get normal CSM's and paint them green, boom insta plague marines for a lot cheaper than the normal ones.

Of course the Normal CSM do not have the battle damaged armor but that hardly matters.

Much has changed for the worse since 3.5

Dr. Spaceman wrote:

Steelmage99 wrote:To OP.

Are looking at it from a background perspective or a game rules perspective.

mostly game rules, although if you do have some cool background information that's always welcome

because of the price of their models (i.e. 50 dollars for like 5 plague marines that are finecast), general playability, and stuff like that, I don't really know if I will continue to advance my CSM army past what I have now until their new codex drops later this year. So right now I have an army that's basically composed of chaos space marines, with a few extras thrown in. What I am really curious about is that if I had an army with regular space marines, (like Ultramarines) would it be the same thing? or are there a few differences between the standard marines?

Plague Marines are different from a regular CSM. CSM vs Vanilla is a more proper comparason.

CSM have a CCW and Pistol and bolter. so they have 1 additional attack.

Vanilla have ATSKNF and Combat tactics. important as CSM can get sweeping advanced while Vanilla marines can't.

CSM have marks.