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The Duke rolled his shoulders, working out the stiffness of the last few months of inexplicable slumber. His skull still felt fuzzy from the collective coma that had settled across the entire warband, but at least his nerves had steadied and the world made as much sense as it had before the darkness fell.

Or were his nerves back? The exalted hero stared at his shaking hand, before noticing rocks and stones jumping on the ground beyond. He glanced at his whimpering hounds, his startled men, and then up at the towering shaggoth glaring into the distance.

“What is it Korg?” the standard bearer asked. The enormous sauron’s face twisted into a grimace as he rumbled out a single word: “Deathstar.”

The Duke felt physically ill as he took up the coruscating banner and organized the battleline. This would not be pleasant …

----

Dying to play something that isn’t skaven, I dug out my WoT boys and threw down the 2k gauntlet, which was taken up by a new player and his tournament-grade OK army. This was to be his second game of fantasy ever, and the first with his ogre army, but like he said he had done his homework – his list was copied from the same one that swept through a recent UK GT, less the hellheart firebelly and 2x 4 leadbelchers. My soft warriors were feeling even softer

WOT 2000

Demon Prince – MoT, level 1, bloodcurdling roar, stream of corruption, fury of the change god
Chaos Sorcerer – MoT, level 2, third eye, talisman of endurance
Exalted Hero – MoT, BSB, talisman of preservation, halberd
20 Warriors – MoT, standard of discipline, full command, shields
20 Warriors – MoT, full command, shields
5 Warhounds
5 Warhounds
Shaggoth – ahw
Scyla

(So maybe Scyla bucks the theme a smidge, but I figure the biggest, gribbliest of spawn – or something suspiciously like it - is more likely to show up in an army of the Change God than of the Red God Also, Scyla is worlds better than normal spawn when it comes to offense.)

OGRES 2000

Slaughtermaster – level 4, fencer’s blades, greedy fist, dispel scroll
Bruiser – BSB, rune maw, great weapon
10+ Ironguts – standard of discipline, full command
10+ Gnoblars – trappers
4 Mournfangs – dragonhide, full command, ironfists, heavy armor
3 Maneaters – banner of eternal flame, standard, braces of handguns (sniper + poison)
Sabretusk
Sabretusk
Sabretusk
Ironblaster

Oof.

MAGIC

Demon Prince – flickering fire
Chaos Sorcerer – flickering fire, pandemonium

Slaughtermaster – spinemarrow, bloodgorger, trollguts, the maw

DEPLOYMENT, ETC

We played a battleline game, my mundane terrain chart vommed out a ton of buildings and impassable ruins (and maybe other stuff that was pushed aside).



Ogre BSB & SM ride the second rank of the 3-wide gutstar. WoC BSB in the undisciplined warriors, sorcerer general in the disciplined ones a bit further back.

Ogres nabbed first with a 6, vs chaos’ 3+1. And thus the carnage begins.

BATTLE
Turn 1


Ogres thunder forward across the line, with the guneaters entering their building and the gutstar keeping it to a jog. With just the maw for offense, capable of doing more damage to the ogres than the high initiative chaos dudes, the slaughtermaster chooses not to cast anything. The guneaters tear two wounds off of the demon prince, but the ironblaster’s round – which exactly hits the shaggoth thanks to the double bounce – rolls a 1 to wound the beast.



Keeping his cool despite the near miss, the shaggoth charges one sabretusk and it flees in terror; he passes his redirect roll and charges the other, which also flees in terror. The shaggy stumbles 5” towards the gutstar. The rest of the chaos line advances variously, with hounds preparing to mess with mournfangs and gutstar. The prince hops next to the mournfangs, angled with LOS to the leftmost sabretusk … Magic is low and a wash (DP fails to cast flicker on the sabretusk), but the Roar Phase delivers the tough lesson I had prepared for. An average roar tosses out the double 6’s to turn the cat to jelly, and the mournfangs, who are within 6”, fail their panic check and run off the table. I apologize at this point but honestly I had no way to deal with that tank besides abusing their weak LD. I also suggest that from here on he put them in the center and ram them down the enemy guts

Turn 2


Sabretusks keep running (one off the table), as the gutstar charges some warhounds, which flee past the sorcerer’s warriors – who unlike the mournfangs don’t care about their animal friends. Gnoblars jam themselves into the WoT BSB’s grill, and the ‘blaster slides sideways. Magic does nothing meaningful, but ogre shooting is legit as expected: guneaters tag another wound off the prince; the ironblaster slams a round (again thanks to the double bounce) through the shaggoth, doing five wounds, and also smashing a warrior for good measure. (In retrospect the cannonball would have stuck in the shaggoth and not passed into a warrior but meh.)



Scyla rambles into the gnoblar flank, and the Duke sends his warriors into the vermin to make them go away faster. Ridiculously, three warriors fall to the tiny beaver traps and tripwires strewn in front of the trappers And perhaps as ridiculously, the shaggoth, despite his puppy dog eyes and heart rending pout, is commanded to stand at the gutstar corner and redirect. Everybody else prepares for Go Time next turn, warhounds rallying or blocking with the prince flitting over to the gutstar flank. Magic is weak, but the sorcerer is able to get trollguts off on the shaggoth, hoping against hope. Roar tags a single wound onto an irongut, and shortly thereafter the gnoblars are detonated and their detonators reform.

Turn 3


Gutstar docks with the shaggoth, shortly after which the last ‘tusk leaves the table and the guneaters leave their building and wheel towards the center. Magic sees trollguts crushed but bullgorger go off, and shooting is gentle. Guneaters faff away at the BSB’s warriors for little result, while the ironblaster misfires and will miss this and the next round of shooting. In combat the shaggoth survives the two S8 impacts, directs all six attaks into the irongut champ but can only manage a single wound (3+ to hit, 2+ to wound), before being hewed down. The gutstar reforms to four-wide and faces the incoming blue dudes.



Here we go! Both warriors and the prince charge the gutstar, but the sorcerer’s warriors don’t make it to the fight. Scyla obliges however and scoots into the gutstar corner. Warhounds either ass into guneaters or chase after the ironblaster. All available power dice goes into bubbled trollguts, but with no IF the slaughtermaster scrolls it. Yelling faster than everyone else, Scyla challenges and the slaughtermaster steps up to deal with the gribbly – the ogre caster takes a wound and deals 1-2 back. Before this the demon prince screams and slaps a wound onto an irongut with his five attaks (3+ to hit, 3+ to wound), and the exalted BSB and his warriors (note: pretty sure I forgot warriors have 2 attaks each ) carve down a few ogres. Lucky armor and wards keep warrior casualties to a handful, and in the end the gutstar has to test at -2. He makes his LD7 with the reroll.

Turn 4


Blaster moves, guneaters stand and fire at the warrior bunker, doing perhaps a wound. Magic pushes trollguts through (healing the slaughtermaster), and the wreckage continues. The prince causes a couple wounds (which are regened), the warriors lay down around eight wounds (around seven are regened), Scyla flubs and the great weapons fall in return, killing the prince, wounding the uber-spawn twice and shredding warriors. The warriors break, the BSB manages to commit seppuku through his 3+ ward save, the warrior standard immolates, and just three run off as Scyla holds the line.



Um, here we go again? The sorcerer sends his dudes into the gutstar (again), warhounds get in the way (as they do), and the shattered warriors keep running. Once more the sorcerer tries to trollgut his boys but fails to get it past. And then they fail fear



Scyla has his neck broken, the terrified warriors are liquefied, break and are run down.

Turn 5


Gutstar pushes the last of the warriors off the table, guneaters trash some warhounds, ironblaster trashes some more warhounds.

OGRE VICTORY

And thus my intent to paint up my WoT at long last died again.

- Salvage

First few turns I thought you had this game in the bag. Props to the ogres

A little side tracked from the topic, but how do you make those really nice bat-rep pictures the graphics etc.

Man alive Boss, you looked to have that reasonably well covered after the OK players' kitty cats ran off the table - that Gutstar unit was mean

Did you try to get in the flank of the Gutstar or were you trying to be nice to a newbie ?


As ever, a great read regardless of result - keep the BatReps coming

FordPrefect wrote:Did you try to get in the flank of the Gutstar or were you trying to be nice to a newbie?

The shaggoth sacrifice was positioned in such a way that if the gutstar had sat still or overrun moderately I'd have had warriors into his side and DP in the rear.* But as it was he reformed and expanded frontage, which was certainly the smart thing to do. I'm unsure how I could have put a warrior block into its flank, except for wider deployment to begin and those gnoblars being gotten rid of earlier.

Johnny-Crass wrote:First few turns I thought you had this game in the bag. Props to the ogres

Eh, on paper that ogre list should beat this cuddlehammer chaos list every time, and ultimately I knew the game was going to come down to if I could break his deathstar or not. I keep trying to remind myself that I did beat it by 2 on my assault turn, and without the second warrior block (they needed a 5 and rolled a 4, by the by) or any magical support, so perhaps the dream was not so impossible. (After the fact I realized also that I should have challenged with my BSB if I intended to actually kill any of his ogre characters, as he's one of the few competent fighters in the army. Having WS5+, S6 and a 4/3+ save would have helped as well, over Scyla's WS4, S5, and randomness.)

Speaking of magic, it was certainly strange playing without a +4 dispel and a dispel scroll, had forgotten how attached to my grey seer I've become. Though rune maw is as great at protecting a single unit as ever, and perhaps better so in the new book, when you're playing a Minhammer build along with your deathstar (i.e. there are no other units in LoS to the enemy caster or no units that are worth risking the miscast for). So even if I had a bunch of dice and gateway ready to go, the gutstar is fairly immune to it, while my casters are not to the miscast I'd need to push through to make the spell work.

Also I want to take a moment to reiterate how pathetic the DP is in combat despite his stats, it always blows my mind how crappy a WS8 S5 dude can be. Here's begging for ASF in the new book.

Sasa0mg wrote:A little side tracked from the topic, but how do you make those really nice bat-rep pictures the graphics etc.

They're made using Battle Chronicler

Cheers for the comments, will see when I play fantasy again and how much I need to procrastinate

- Salvage

*

Ah that's awesome thank you

Uhg, Ironguts are the bane of my Chaos as well, I refer to them as The Gestapo. One of the few units that can throw out more, higher stength, attacks than WoC. If you wanna wreck him mark your dudes nurgle and run a heavens wizard instead of the DP. The guts begin hitting on 5+ since nurgle reduces their WS to 2. Toss a iceshard blizzard and they are hitting on 6s, and if you are brutal: curse of the midnight wind would make them reroll successful hits, as well as their 6+ save from your attacks.
You made a bid though, just wasn't in the dice

Ugh... I gotta admit, this doesn't make me want to play more fantasy :( Ogre death stars just make me sick. Just one of those things that really bums me out past all reason.

I've gotta admit, I wouldn't have thought of roaring at the Sabretusk to make the Mournfangs flee. Good call.

I also thought you had this one wrapped up early, but I keep forgetting how devastating Ogres can be (despite playing them myself)!

Great report, and as always I look forward to the next one.

Etna's Vassal wrote:I've gotta admit, I wouldn't have thought of roaring at the Sabretusk to make the Mournfangs flee. Good call.

I tried something similar in my only outing against the Ogre book- crossbowed off a lone sabretusk to try to panic 6 ogres and their 2 butchers. Didn't get the panic though. It's the one thing that makes me think lone sabretusks aren't completely BS for their points.

Boss- Ogre Deathstars are one of the hardest I can think to work against. Every time I'm putting a list together, i usually mentally check off how I'll deal with some of the more common "problems"- Hell Pits, Pendant Lord, etc. I'm usually stumped by Irongut hordes- especially those that include a stubborn crown.

I hate to ask, but is the only way to deal with them huge amounts of flanking combat res? Outside of throwing 6 dice at whatever uber spell your mages have, I mean.

Really disliking the fact that so much of fantasy boils down to that these days :(

Nah the way to deal with it is range damage and character assassination then piledriving cheap throwaway units while you mop up the rest

Can you reliably character assassinate Ogre characters? Especially if the Runemaw banner is in play?

We might keep in mind that Johnny plays gunline Empire, which at least in theory has the firepower to cripple a gutstar before it's dismantled or blows itself up Frankly there aren't many armies that can say the same, and you might also note that Empire gunlines are known offenders pushed out of most competitive play (and I dare say casual as well). Ogre deathstars are not really countered by restrictions, with the possible exception of capping unit cost.

- Salvage

Back when I played Bretonnia I would suicide Heroic Killing Blow lords into the star just the smite his characters and then die

Me, as an ogre player, can help all of you. Johnny is sort of right, one things that is very useful against it is whittling it down with ranged attacks. If you can knock off even a rank, it will make a big difference As best you can, try to prevent them from getting the charge off, those impact hits matter more than you would think.

If it is a stubborn crown/runemaw star, the characters in it probably lack protection, and if not hidden in the second rank, should be targeted down, especially hellheart firebellies before they get their breath attack off if possible! (given that your unit can reliable wound T5. S4 is decent, S5 is much preferred or S6) If not, I must warn you, the characters are probably tough as nails. Put as many attacks in that case toward RnF and try to keep the steadfast or win combat. If the Slaughtermaster is running Lore of Great Maw, you are not going to kill him. Sorry it won't happen, ignore him and attack something else. T5 W5 and regaining a wound or 2 per turn is just going to ruin your day. People often run the with fencers blades as well, so you have WS10 to deal with.

If you do decide for a flank charge on top of a face on combat, DO NOT DO IT WITH A WEAK UNIT. Even in the flank, you still face 9+ S6 attacks that otherwise wouldn't gone into combat plus stomps. I have had it happen a lot were a flank charge actually gave me more combat res because they flanked with garbage infantry.

The star itself is very expensive, an average one with characters hits 1k easily. If you can kill it, you get the general and BSB points as well; victory will be almost certain. I must say again, one of the best ways to beat it is whittling it down slowly. Ogres handle combat attrition very well, but with a low armor save, battlefield attrition is another beast.

That sounds like some great advice Kobold! Thanks!

The bit about flank charging is a really good point too; I often find the same is true with my chaos warriors. They love taking it in the rear...

Hmmm now I want to fight a gut star list just to try some of this out

Cool WoC Tzeentch list. One of my friends said WoC can somehow absorb magic... is this true?

I've got to second Kobold's advice on beating the gutstar. My dark elves are routinely have to face this monster. Throw whatever spells you can at it to whittle it down, and throw as many bolts down its throat as possible before holding it with my large warrior block. Give the warriors the 5+ cauldron blessing, and throw my hydras in the sides, pref with chariots, and try to hit them as hard as possible after they've been weakened. Admittedly I run a bit of a different DE list, using metal and fire, and the glittering robes/enchanted blades/flaming sword REALLY help vs. these monsters.

thephenomenalZ wrote:Cool WoC Tzeentch list. One of my friends said WoC can somehow absorb magic... is this true?

No, but they all do get +1 to their Ward Saves(or a 6+ if they don't have one)

So Warriors of Tzeentch with Shields in combat have 3+ armor and a 5+ parry save. Outside of combat and to the flank they have 3+ armor and 6+ ward.