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If I make a 4/5 pilot a 3/4 pilot, how much does that increase the BV of a mech by? And where can I find this rule in the Total Warfare book?

Also, if I'm running WoB Celestials, do people generally run them as 3/4 to make them 3/5 because of the small cockpit? Or is there a piece of cyberware I'm missing that the Manei Domini can take?

Noisy_Marine wrote:If I make a 4/5 pilot a 3/4 pilot, how much does that increase the BV of a mech by? And where can I find this rule in the Total Warfare book?

Also, if I'm running WoB Celestials, do people generally run them as 3/4 to make them 3/5 because of the small cockpit? Or is there a piece of cyberware I'm missing that the Manei Domini can take?

The BV adjust for better pilots is on page 314 of the TechManual book or, if you want it done automatically for you, go to the official BattleTech website here:

http://bg.battletech.com/

...scroll to the bottom of the page and click on "The Master Unit List" and on that page put the name of the desired 'Mech in the top right box. It will take you to a page with all the varients of that 'Mech. Click on the varient you like and on that page it will give you a place to upgrade the pilot/gunnery skills and will automatically adjust the BV for you.

I have no idea about the WoB Celestials, however..

Noisy_Marine wrote:If I make a 4/5 pilot a 3/4 pilot, how much does that increase the BV of a mech by? And where can I find this rule in the Total Warfare book?

Also, if I'm running WoB Celestials, do people generally run them as 3/4 to make them 3/5 because of the small cockpit? Or is there a piece of cyberware I'm missing that the Manei Domini can take?

Manei Domini usually are using a VDNI interface, Buffered version later in the Jihad. It provides a -1 to both Piloting and Gunnery, cancelling out the Small cockpit modifier. There are several other upgrades for a Manei Domini pilot to make them even tougher. However, they also increase the FINAL BV of the unit.

Those upgrades should be in Jihad Hot Spots: Blake Ascending.

A really good Manei Domini pilot with upgrades and a good Celestial can easily push 6-7K BV EACH. But that 'Mech is one hell of a bad ass.

Mattlov wrote: A really good Manei Domini pilot with upgrades and a good Celestial can easily push 6-7K BV EACH. But that 'Mech is one hell of a bad ass.

Really?!?!

For 6000 BV, I can use an entire lance of Archers - that's four heavy 'Mechs! For 7000 BV, I can get two Timber Wolf (Mad Cat) S varients with Trueborn (3/4) pilots!

How could a single Celestial, no matter what upgrades or super pilot, take on four heavy BattleMechs or two Clan OmniMechs?

DeathwingCrusader wrote:

Mattlov wrote: A really good Manei Domini pilot with upgrades and a good Celestial can easily push 6-7K BV EACH. But that 'Mech is one hell of a bad ass.

Really?!?!

For 6000 BV, I can use an entire lance of Archers - that's four heavy 'Mechs! For 7000 BV, I can get two Timber Wolf (Mad Cat) S varients with Trueborn (3/4) pilots!

How could a single Celestial, no matter what upgrades or super pilot, take on four heavy BattleMechs or two Clan OmniMechs?

No he is right, it's a badass mech. Dosen't mean it will last long, but it would be a fun match up anyways.

don't forget, that those 4 to 1 odds allows the Celestial to have some back up, the new BT rules help prevent match ups of 4 to 1. I forget what page it's on, but it goes into detail about figuring out the adjusted BV score due to being out numbered.

Garuss Acine wrote:don't forget, that those 4 to 1 odds allows the Celestial to have some back up, the new BT rules help prevent match ups of 4 to 1. I forget what page it's on, but it goes into detail about figuring out the adjusted BV score due to being out numbered.

The FSM (or force size multiplier) does NOT allow you to add units when outnumbered. It merely gives you extra BV to increase piloting/gunnery skill.

DeathwingCrusader wrote: The FSM (or force size multiplier) does NOT allow you to add units when outnumbered. It merely gives you extra BV to increase piloting/gunnery skill.

in a case of where you have a couple thousand BV, it all depends on what changing the odds from 4 to 1, to 4 to 2 odds, if enough points are there wouldn't you be able to even with a change in 2 vs 4? or does it state out right you can't? as I said I really don't have access to the book at the moment(visiting family).

Putting a good MD pilot into a Preta Dominus is about the most annoyingly effective 'Mech you can throw on the field. It won't kill anything fast, but it out-Wraiths the Wraith. Badly.

And it is only 45 tons.

A fully kitted MD pilot in an Archangel Luminos will push close to 8K BV.

The other thing to know is ANY Manei Domini pilot should be starting with a Gunnery and Piloting of 2/3 BEFORE adding the MD implants.

But MD aren't really meant for much more than one-off games.

Garuss Acine wrote:

DeathwingCrusader wrote: The FSM (or force size multiplier) does NOT allow you to add units when outnumbered. It merely gives you extra BV to increase piloting/gunnery skill.

in a case of where you have a couple thousand BV, it all depends on what changing the odds from 4 to 1, to 4 to 2 odds, if enough points are there wouldn't you be able to even with a change in 2 vs 4? or does it state out right you can't? as I said I really don't have access to the book at the moment(visiting family).

FSM is unfortunately kind of broken as it stands. Think of it this way, if you get extra points because you are outnumbered 4-to-1 and use that extra BV to get a second unit you are now only outnumbered 2-to-1 because you have another unit. Thus if you use the BV difference from the Force Size Mod to buy another unit the force size modifier changes and likely invalidates your ability to purchase the extra unit anyways.

Thus the FSM is only useful to increase pilot skill or buy C3 networks and the like. I see it as more of a tool for rough balance on a pre-made scenario than something useable in a pick up game.

As it stands my friends usually just set a BV and a unit size (i.e. 6000 BV for a lance of 'mechs). This works a little less-well with Clan vs. IS sorties of course as clan units are different sizes and their 3/4 skill package and more expensive 'mechs tend to put them at an inherent disadvantage in numbers. For that we just try to get as close as we can.