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First of all I don't know why more people don't get more Temple Gaurd. In contrast to Saurus you are paying 5 points extra per model, and your shield saves in close combat, for STR 4 to 5 (halberd), WS 3 to 4. I realise Stubborn and Immune to Phycology when with Slann is not very great due to the fact that they have 8 leadership and cold-blooded in the first place, but just the simple fact that they are able to protect the Slann makes them more valuable. I know a lot of people field them but when people do I tend to see them in groups of like 10-20.

Why Chameleons? Why Stegadon? A lot of people like them but I don't really see why...

Chameleons are top notch warmachine/ lone mage hunters

I love Temple Guard and usually have them in my list, even if I don't have a Slann. They're just beefier Saurus, which is pure awesome. Most people seem to be of the opinion that they're basically just overpriced Saurus and don't bring that much more to the table, but in my experience they're a solid unit. They also have slightly better initiative so they typically strike at the same time as most monsters (with I2) instead of after.

Stegadons are a bit different. The best success I've had with them was when I brought more than one. I usually run an Ancient and a Baby. They're not as good at breaking units anymore so they're support chargers or flankers. One nice thing is that they're relatively small (compared with new stuff) so you can still reliably hide them behind terrain. It's also easier for templates to scatter off the base.

Here's my big beef with chameleons. When you compare them to say skink skirmishers they have they -1 to hit penalty to units shooting them, 1 extra BS, and scout special rule. Now how is that worth an extra 5 points per model, and chameleons don't even fill up your needed core! I guess the bigger problem I have is with Lizardmen Archers in general. By the time you get in range you will get one good attack off before they charge you.

Let's say you are fielding 12 chameleons (6x2). You get to the opponent, attack him with blowpipes without negative modifiers. That's an average of 4 poisoned attacks, and 14 normal STR 3 hits. They can't do anything in close combat, so how are they worth 144 points? Do you people know something I don't?

I mean scout is nice, but I would say they are only worth 6 or 7 points max. You say they are good "wizard killers", but you know what else is a good "wizard killer", a Slann!

You do not fight things with Chameleons, you use scout and hunt things like warmachines. they are not a combat unit.

Hmm, you have a good point there. They would be good against Warmachines... I guess THAT'S why people field them... Hmmm... I should try them some time... What about Stegadons? Why field them?

In my local scene the cannon is king so I never see Stegs ;(

Chameleons can move 12" and fire and are skirmishers, they should easily be able to run rings around combat blocks and avoid combat unless you want them to be in combat (as diverters basically + stand and shoot can be useful). Combined with their shooting modifiers it means the only way to reliably deal with them is magic. BS4 makes a huge difference when you factor in Poison, it means you can move and shoot, multi shot and be at long range and still need 6's (and thus can still Poison). Standard Skinks either have to be at short range or single shot otherwise they need 7's and can't Poison, which means quite often a unit of 5 Chameleons (which is all you need btw, large units can't Scout as effectively) is going to pump out as many wounds as a 10 man Skink unit. Combined with Scouts this means you are in range and able to start throwing wounds on things from turn 1. They are incredible war machine hunters, scare almost every large monster in the game and can pick off small lower armour units including Mages. Its interesting that you say Temple Guard are worth it over Saurus for 5pts more when they get far less for that 5pts (without a Slann its a buff to S5 and that's basically it) than Chameleons get over standard Skinks for the same cost.

Like all monsters Stegadons took a hit in 8th, but they still hit like a truck without being overly expensive and stick around thanks to Stubborn. Their burst damage on the charge combined with a supporting charge from an infantry unit is going to win most combats, and thanks to Thunderstomp they can grind down big blocks pretty well as well. Other than their low I, the main area Lizardmen can struggle is dealing with larger monsters or high armour save units in combat, which the Steg is pretty good at dealing with. Lizardmen are very lucky with their monsters as they can easily get access to 4+ Stegadons in a standard 2400pt list, which presents more targets than most armies can deal with with magic/shooting and once you hit combat they do very well.

LordHamshire wrote:First of all I don't know why more people don't get more Temple Gaurd. In contrast to Saurus you are paying 5 points extra per model, and your shield saves in close combat, for STR 4 to 5 (halberd), WS 3 to 4.

Incorrect.

Halberds are two handed weapons which means you cannot use a shield in combat. In addition, even if you could they're not a hand weapon so you're not getting a parry save. You will always use the halberd in preference to the Hand Weapon, as per page 89 of the rulebook.

That's what he's saying, you pay 5 points and lose the ability to use your shields in order to gain access to WS4, Halberds, and an Initiative increase.

As a Dwarf player, I HATE chameleons. However, I do love Stegs. TBH you shouldn't run just one Steg, the key to monsters in 8th is running multiples of them.

I run 2 x 10 Camo skinks in every list. They are my favorite unit in the entire codex. I've yet to play a game where they haven't earned their points back.

They are the best war machine hunters in the dex, and can harass other enemy units once they've taken care of the war machines. The multi shot with poison means they can dish out alot of damage to any unit that needs to be softened up a little bit.

Run them in your games, and I'd be surprised if you were not convinced by their performance.

Another problem with Temple Guard is that if you're running a combat list, there is really no reason to take anything other than Light magic- it is far and away the best lore for a combat Lizards list. So, once you factor in the Light magic buffs, Temple guard don't really do much that Saurus don't do cheaper.

Except hide the Slann in the second rank.

A bunker of 20 skirmishing Skinks does that exact same job, or you can go with any of the plethora of magic items/Disciplines that make him hard to deal with at range.

Being able to go into the second rank doesn't make up for the bad aspects of the Temple Guard.

A bunker of 20 skinks? You mean those T2 soft things that will force the Slan to the front when charged and die in the bucket loads when shot? You do not make bunkers out of paper.

I'm afraid you've missed the point- they're not a dedicated bunker. You make the frog ethereal, or with a 2+ ward vs ranged, and he only dives into the unit if he'll otherwise get template sniped.

It's also harder than you make out to get into combat with that bunker.

You lose the ability to cast Regen on the temple guard if you are running life magic in a skink unit. You also might have some minor range issues in a skink unit.

High mobility and low cost make it a reasonable choice. Unfortunately any fast cav or flyers make it risky. Heavy cav and monsters will break the unit almost guaranteed, though it will be hard to pin down the ethereal Slaan if they lack sufficient auxiliary units.