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Hello there good folks, as the title says I've decided to start with the Knights. This will be my second major undertaking since I put my Eldar aside until the next codex comes out. I've been hanging around for a couple of months reading army list after army list, and just about every tactics and general discussion thread I can get my hands on. I noticed there's not too much in the Articles section, and perhaps I could put my hand towards fixing that at some point, I figure that'd be a nice way to give back to the community. I'm going to put out as much as I've come to understand about the Knights, as well as some of the things that I want to do with my upcoming army.

For a little history on me and my 40k experiences, I started with Blood Angels back with the PDF codex and that's been my main army since then. I started Eldar last year wanting to try out something shooty as a break from the assaulty-goodness of the Angels. I understand that Grey Knights make a good shooty army and that's part of the reason I was drawn to them, other than the aesthetics and amount of customization that seems to be possible. I intend to amass a 8- 10k force total eventually. As such I'm probably going to do a bunch of small armies to add up to that, I was thinking Purifier, Draigowing, and henchmen would be the main part. I don't really want to do a "super competitive" list , to start out anyway. I don't have plans to go to a tournament in the foreseeable future because I just don't have that competitive mentality.

So far I've go Crowe, two boxes of PA Knights and a Rhino/Razorback all NiB and a deal for a NoS Razorback/Rhino pending. Plus a kitbashed Inquisitor. I'm going to hold off getting more until I get my plans in order.
I'll make Army Lists in that forum when I get to that point, but I'm just going to point some stuff out here.A couple ideas I'd want to try are:

Grand Master (MC Incinerator, Rad, Falchions) Any good?
Strikes and Interceptors
30-35 Purifiers in Rhinos with as many Psycannons and Halberds as I can cram in.
Dreads with LC/ML or MM

This is a amalgamation of information I've found myself and from posts from the thread:
Named Characters:

Draigo: Your big "tank" HQ , makes Paladins troops and D3 units scoring due to the Grand Strategy special rule. Most famous for the "Draigowing" style of list ie: Draigo + Librarian + Paladins + "Psyfilemen".

Mordrak:

Stern:

Crowe: Makes Purifiers troops. He is a liability on his own, and needs to be taken care of and used properly. I've heard him referred to as the "Crowe Tax" that you must pay for superior troop choices. Make sure he does the charging, or you won't like what happens.

Coteaz: Makes Inquisitorial Henchmen troops Adds flexible tactical options, worth more than JUST the Henchmen troops.

Karamazov:

Valeria:

Generic HQs:

Grand Master:

Brother-Captain: Inferior to the Grand Master in most if not all cases, find the 25 points.

Brotherhood Champion:

Librarian: Best powers are Sanctuary, Might of Titan, and Shrouding. Quicksilver is only a bit behind that. Point of contention over the worthiness of a Warding Stave.

Hereticus Inquisitor:

Malleus Inquisitor:

Xenos Inquisitor: Good cheap Rad Grenade/ Psychotroke Grenade delivery system and Hammerhand stack.

Elites:

Techmarine: More sturdy grenade delivery system. Can bolster in order to raise cover saves, widely considered to be a good choice.

Purifiers: Some of, if not THE best troops the Knights can get. Cheaper Halberds and can be used as an able CC choice, 4 special weapons to a squad, and Cleansing Flame which sweeps hordes.Needs to be careful around hordes nonetheless. Should be used responsibly. MUST TAKE CROWE TO USE AS TROOPS.

Paladins: The competition for "best troop". Hardy verging on unstoppable used right, 4 special weapons to a squad 6th edition rules may make these fellas worse keep an eye on that. MUST TAKE DRAIGO TO USE AS TROOPS.

Venerable Dreadnought: Big brother to the Heavy Support Dread. Point of contention if it's worth the extra points over a HS Dread in the "Psyrifleman" configuration.

Assassins:
-Vindicare: Considered best. Semi-reliable anti tank.
-Eversor: Considered second best.
-Culexus:
-Callidus:

Troops:

Terminator Squad: Best used in a CC role because of their cheaper weapons options, better armour, and inbuilt invulnerable save. Best used with a generic GM.

Strike Squad: Best used in a fire support role, one 'cannon in a Razorback, or two in a Rhino. It's good to include a hammer, but it's best not to buy the other CC weapons due to cost Warp Quake is a surprisingly useful power. Best used with a generic GM.

Fast Attack:

Stormraven Gunship: Considered good, though possibly overpriced. Frail, but a good delivery system. One of the few sources of Melta.

Interceptor Squad: Granted scoring through Grand Strategy, a late game shunt move can help a lot.

Heavy Support:

Purgation Squad: Possibly redundant, next to Purifier troops they just don't hold up. Takes a spot from a "Psyrifleman".

Dreadnought: VERY GOOD. 135 for a "Psyrifleman", the ubiquitous build. (2x Autocannon and Psybolt).

Dreadknight: Point of contention. Personal teleporter + Incinerator + Greatsword = good. Can't charge after shunting. Give these guys Scout through Grand Strategy.

Land Raider:
-Bland:
-Crusader: Do not give Psybolt, it makes Hurricanes not defensive any more.
-Redeemer:

Elite/ No slot
Inquisitorial Henchmen
- Warrior Acolyte: Considered very useful in 3x Melta in a Chimera.
- Death Cult Assassin: MEQ killer, squishy, needs support from Crusaders, and ideally a LR or SR transport. Try to keep an Inquisitor with them, ideally with Rad.
- Crusader: 3++ and Power Weapon, what's not to like?
- Jokaero Weaponsmith: Random upgrades, point of contention.
- Mystic:
- Servitor: Watch Mindlock.
- Daemonhost:
- Psyker:
- Banisher:

Rhino: Standard Rhino for the most part, lives up to it's reputation. Better because it can potentially remove Shaken and Stunned results.

Razorback: MSU spam, Heavy bolters and Psybolt or Lascannons are considered best.

Inquisitorial Chimera:

Any more input would be very well received and appreciated. I intend to make an article about this, so any tactical and firsthand experience would really go a long way. Also, can I get input on the "less than competitive" units? I don't like the blank spots too much.

Dreadknights with personal teleporter and heavy incinerator are quite intimidating. Grand strategy could give them a scout move so that they could be in cc by turn 1.

wuestenfux wrote:Dreadknights with personal teleporter and heavy incinerator are quite intimidating. Grand strategy could give them a scout move so that they could be in cc by turn 1.

I hope you dont mean shuntpunch. Coz thats illegal according to the GK FAQ.

If you just mean the general move 12 scout, move 12 turn 1, assault 6, sure!

Thanks, this is just the kind of thing I was looking for. I'll continue updating the first post as this goes along for convenience sake for other readers.

I have one thing to say: Vindicare!

Same here, with pretty much the exact same overview as well.

One thing I can't seem to find much opinions about is Interceptor squads. I'm curious about these guys since they could add some welcome mobility (in my mind, Rhinos spontaneously blow up when looked at).

You didn't mention the Stormraven, either.
From what I get, it's costly considering its frailty since it will be gunned down on the first occasion, but it does provide unparalleled threat range to a mean close combat squad (including Terminators) as well as anti-tank capabilities (one of the rare carriers of melta in the codex).

Purgation squads seem to be mostly redundant with other choices, as well as competing in force organisation chart slots with the ever-touted Psyflemen.

Be careful with Paladins. 6th edition will nerf their ability to spread wounds around, making them a touch less survivable. If you're after a Hammer unit it's hard to go past Purifiers.

More good points, thanks for that. I don't know too much about Interceptors, and about the Paladins that is definitely something I'd need to think about. Though I'm still kind of on the fence about the authenticity of the leaked 6th edition rules truth be told. Though that may be because I just don't like them.

Edited the OP, it's more clear and concise now without my babble. Well on my way here if I do say so myself.

Purifiers arent a hammer. lol No invuln, 1 w, and with anti pysker abound they may even lack cf. Armed with psycanons they are better at shooting and then attacking small squads.

Draigo wrote:Purifiers arent a hammer. lol No invuln, 1 w, and with anti pysker abound they may even lack cf. Armed with psycanons they are better at shooting and then attacking small squads.

They are a hammer. They aren't an anvil, theres a difference.

With WS5, 2 attacks base, whatever force weapons you want to give them, a techmarine or librarian as a force multiplier, they do pretty well at chopping stuff up.

Kaldor wrote:

Draigo wrote:Purifiers arent a hammer. lol No invuln, 1 w, and with anti pysker abound they may even lack cf. Armed with psycanons they are better at shooting and then attacking small squads.

They are a hammer. They aren't an anvil, theres a difference.

With WS5, 2 attacks base, whatever force weapons you want to give them, a techmarine or librarian as a force multiplier, they do pretty well at chopping stuff up.

haha libby too? really? push that cost over 500 pts and they better do something lol DCA will do just as well or better with a libby for less. A squad of 30 boyz with a nob/power klaw will do just as well at just attacking for less too. Again fw dont mean always much when in tourneys where everyone is sporting anti psyker. 1 furioso will eat your purifiers in short order.. 1 eldrad and poof goes your powers.. They farkin sm and need to be played as such. A squad of hormagaunts can grease them if youre not careful. List of endless reasons to not run head long and use them like a ds.

Draigo wrote:

Kaldor wrote:

Draigo wrote:Purifiers arent a hammer. lol No invuln, 1 w, and with anti pysker abound they may even lack cf. Armed with psycanons they are better at shooting and then attacking small squads.

They are a hammer. They aren't an anvil, theres a difference.

With WS5, 2 attacks base, whatever force weapons you want to give them, a techmarine or librarian as a force multiplier, they do pretty well at chopping stuff up.

haha libby too? really? push that cost over 500 pts and they better do something lol DCA will do just as well or better with a libby for less. A squad of 30 boyz with a nob/power klaw will do just as well at just attacking for less too. Again fw dont mean always much when in tourneys where everyone is sporting anti psyker. 1 furioso will eat your purifiers in short order.. 1 eldrad and poof goes your powers.. They farkin sm and need to be played as such. A squad of hormagaunts can grease them if youre not careful. List of endless reasons to not run head long and use them like a ds.

For christs sake, I'm not trying to write out a tactica here, nor am I saying that Purifiers are the only combat option people should consider.

I'm just saying that Purifiers tear stuff up in combat. End of story.

Updated with more information again. Does anyone have anything to add about things like Strike Squads, Terminators, Interceptors and the other blank slots?

I don't have a whole lot of experience with interceptors, but I have a decent amount of experience with Strike Squads and Terminators. Now, since you're less inclined to include these basic troop options if you're running Crowe or Draigo, I'll be assuming these will be ran under a generic Grandmaster.

Strike Squads are best employed in a fire support role. They're typically taken in either 5 man squads with a psycannon in a Razorback. or a 10-man with 2 psycannons in a Rhino. A Hammer is optional for either set-up, but other CC upgrades should be avoided due to expense. Psybolts should be avoided on 5 man squads due to cost, but is an alright upgrade on a 10-man squad because the price per model is cheaper. Psilencers are pretty terrible.

Warp Quake is probably the best anti-deep strike power in the game, capable of covering a wide area from either a Rhino-chassis or spreading the squad out.

Terminators on the other hand, are better at combat than Strike Squads and should be employed as such. Since they've got an invul save already and Strikes don't, they can take advantage of the Nemesis Force Sword's ability, giving them 4+ invuls in CC. Halberds are also great, and a ratio I've found that works is 1 Hammer for every 5 Terminators in the squad. A Warding Stave is useful since you can soak power weapon attacks on him. Brotherhood Banner is a nice upgrade for larger squads of Terminators, but should be avoided in 5 man squads since you trade out somebody's NFW for it and get little return. Psybolts are optional on 10-man squads, probably not useful on 5-man.

Hope that helped!

Thanks for the input on the "Character-less" troops. I figured they'd be less useful, but the Warp Quake seems to be handy. Next I'd like to know if anyone has anything to put in the HQ section, generic or named, either way.

Also a personal question: How hard would it be to magnetize or pin PAGK so I can switch between Strikes and Purifiers. Meaning switch Swords and Halberds and add Psycannons/ Incinerators as necessary.

There isn't a real equipment difference between Purifiers and Strikes, nothing you could magnetize anyway.

Purifiers should always have Halberds, Stikes probably want swords because their halberds are overcosted.

But if you run Purifiers you probably won't ever want to run Strikes a whole lot.


Remember that Interceptors have Warp Quake too so if you run them you won't need Strikes for that power(which is situational at best)

I kind of want to try a lot of different types of units. I kind of want to run Crowe+Purifiers and/or GM or Inquisitor+Strikes. They both seem like good choices to me.

I like both Halberds and Swords, and I already have both Crowe and an Inquisitor in my possession. Since I haven't assembled my PAGK boxes yet, I haven't decided what to make them into, and I figured I could magnetize or pin their arms to switch between Halberds and Swords to switch between squads.

Also, would Falchions, Grenades and MC Incinerator be a good build for a generic GM?

@Syrell Do keep in mind that all this information may change with all the rumors of 6th coming on the horizon.

Interceptors can add some strategic ideas if you run a grandmaster with them and make them scoring. The shunt late game can make a difference.

Dreadknights can do some wonderful things but you need to keep in mind what you want them to do so that they dont quickly become a pt sink.

One thing quick on the warp quake.. Be careful how you place your stuff if you choose to use them because if too spread out you can lose your mens support. Since strike using a psycanon can only move so far to still shoot.

If you are really concerned with ds you cant go wrong with coteaz since he adds troop flexibility AND some handy bag of tricks for psykers and ds.

If you run dca its not a bad idea to get them someone with grenades and a few crusaders for those tough invulns.

10 psyker squads in a rhino can be a cheap way to add in a str 10 ap 1 shot with mobility.

Strom ravens can be handy for deploying a ds. the most popular load outs seem mm ad a twin linked plas or las. While I originally favored plas I have been enjoying las vs many of the more elite vehicle based lists I have faced lol

Libby with stave, sanctuary, shrouding, might of titan and warp rift(auto pen vehicle) is great but can become incredibly expensive for some lists.

With some of the new rules on the horizon(speculated) I wouldnt be suprised if ds and razorbacks make more appearances.

Falchions are a horrible choice, way overcosted for only +1A.

Sword or Halberd is best for a GM, and give him a Psycannon. BS6 is too awsome to waste on an auto-hitting weapon.

remember that swords don't do anything special for units without invuln saves. They only improve existing Invuln saves, so PA dudes just have a Force Weapon.

All great information thanks. It's good to find out about Henchmen and whatnot because it's something I don't have a lot of info on them. Plus I want to do around 2000 of them at some point.

About the Grand Master, is the Psycannon really worth the (A LOT) of points? I mean BS6 is good, but it is a lot of points. I can see why the Sword is good, but not really the Halberd, could you elaborate on that? I mean with the I5 the GM has, is the extra +2I really worth it? He's already faster than most MEQ. I mean I'll take your word on it, but it was just something I was wondering about.

You can NEVER have too many Psycannons. Incinerators are ok, but not the best. Psilencers are complete

Yeah I'd never take a Psilencer, not on PAGK for sure. On Terminators...maybe. Though most likely not because the other two special weapons are just better.

I suppose that I need as many Psycannons as I can cram in since I won't in all likelihood have Psyriflemen for a LONG time. I might get some LC/ML dreads though in the interim.

Anti Tank is easier to come by for the Henchmen right, seeing as they can cram in 3 melta Acolytes per squad?

It is easier to get Melta in henchmen squads(as in only place to get it outside of Dreadnoughts)

The thing is that Psycannons in the quantities GK can field will outperform Melta quite often.


a Psycannon getting 4 shots on a regular GK will cause .444 damage results on a Landraider. Melta will cause roughly .4 damage results(BS4)

however the psycannon has twice the range of the melta which will give it many more rounds of shooting. its also more effective against infantry(more shots)

GKs don't need Melta, they have Psycannons and Daemonhammers.


Also, if you use Henchmen you arn't playing GKs anymore. You are playing an Inquisition army which has a completely different modus operandi.

This will be my first time using any transports in my army so it'll be a new experience for me. Strike Squads seem to be good due to the fact that they have 2 Psycannons and the Rhino can have 2 fired out of it.

I hear that it isn't good to put the Daemonhammer on the Justicar or KotF because it's the first thing to go when he Perils himself to death. Is this true? Is it better to put it on another fella?

Speaking of Land Raiders is it worth it for us to take them in really any situation? I've seen people swear by Stormravens lately, but I've always loved the Land Raider. Then there's the whole "which variant" debate.

that is correct, never put the Daemonhammer on the Justicar/Knight of the Flame. give him whatever the regular guys have.

Landraiders are good in an assault based GK army. Once built around Terminators/Purifiers piling out of Landraiders backed up by Venerable Dreadnoughts(the 60 points more expensive is worth it, but not always affordable. if you can afford it, or must take it to get Psyflemen, then its worth it)

Would something like this be any good?
Crowe
Purifiers, Halberds, Psycannons, Hammer, Rhino
Purifiers, Halberds, Psycannons, Hammer, Rhino
Purifiers, Halberds, Psycannons, Hammer, Razorback (For Crowe)
Dread, LC/ML
Dread, LC/ML
Land Raider Bland, Multimelta.
Vindicare.

Around here there's not TOO many heavy vehicle lists, enough I've been able to get by using Infernus Pistols anyway.

It will work good, although Psyfledreds would be better.

You can get cheap and easy autocannons from the Aegis defense line set GW sells. left and right autocannon arms for $25, cheaper then FW autocannon arms, you get terrain too, and its easier then scratch building them.

I'll need to look into those options then, and maybe bundle an order with a friend. I hear overseas shipping can get pricey.

I'm glad that I did fairly well for my first attempt at an army list, I also want to do some sort of Terminator force, but that will wait until after I figure out what's what with this 6th edition leak.

As for another list I was thinking, Strikes in Rhinos, GM with some weapon and grenades with Paladins in a Land Raider/Storm Raven.

Also as for Henchmen I'd also like to do that too, if you could offer anything towards that, it'd be great. Or if you know of anything that'd be a good read. Though that really can be for anything about the Knights.

heres a idea of an inquisitor list i ran one tourney
hq

coteaz
libby

troops

psyker squads in rhino
psyker squad in rhino
acolytes wih melta in chimera with coteaz
2 squads of DCA/crusader mix

Fast
2 stormravens

heavy
2 dreads

setup had the rhinos and chimera in the back shootin while the libby in the ravens with the DCA squads surge forward to assault

rough mash up.. if interested can toss out more specifics but right now at work so cant yet lol

OK I'm back. I've got some more questions to update the thread with.

In which situations are Rhinos better than Razorbacks? For example, with 5 Purifiers with two Psycannons.

Are Inquisitorial Chimeras ever worth taking over Rhinos or Razorbacks?

Is it worth taking any other HQs in a Purifier list other than Crowe?