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In IA8 p123 It states that:

"Buzzgob is a HQ choice for an Ork Army / Dread Mob Army"

and also

"Buzzgob has his own Mekboy Stompa...It is a Kustom Stompa built using the rules on page 193"

As far as I can understand from these rules it is valid to take Buzzgob and a Stompa in a standard game, due to the only thing (as far as I understand) that disallows Super Heavies in normal games, is lack of position on a FOC.

All feedback is welcome.

hmmm it gives him an FOC, but 40k as a whole dun get super heavy rules unless you have apoc books

No, you can only use his stompa in Apoc' games.

Stompa's super-heavy. Super-heavies don't exist outside of apocalypse.

Also, Buzzgob is a Forgeworld unit and the dredbash army is a FW codex, which means they are not part of the core 40k game and are an optional expansion which you need opponent consent.

See how many people consent if you drop a stompa in a 1500 pt 40k game.

Only if I know in advance, that way I can make sure I have something that can take out a Super-heavy

By RAW, Buzzgob does bring his Stompa whenever he is fielded, whether you are playing apoc or not.

However, any opponent is free to simply refuse to play you, because you are exploiting an obvious loophole. It doesn't happen often, but I actually agree with nkelsch sometimes

Jidmah wrote:By RAW, Buzzgob does bring his Stompa whenever he is fielded, whether you are playing apoc or not.

However, any opponent is free to simply refuse to play you, because you are exploiting an obvious loophole. It doesn't happen often, but I actually agree with nkelsch sometimes

How can you use it if it relies on rules that don't exist? Apocalypse is a different game and Super-heavies don't exist within the context of 40k. If you think you can use the Stompa because it says the Warboss can, then the stompa doesn't have a "type", and assuming you're allowed to 'borrow' the rules from apocalypse - a different game - is a massive assumption indeed. The Stompa itself cannot be fielded due to the fact that the rules it relies on are part of a different game system.

Actually SH take up an entire Force Org chart by themselves, so are only useable when you have multiple detachments in use

Mesothere wrote:

Jidmah wrote:By RAW, Buzzgob does bring his Stompa whenever he is fielded, whether you are playing apoc or not.

However, any opponent is free to simply refuse to play you, because you are exploiting an obvious loophole. It doesn't happen often, but I actually agree with nkelsch sometimes

How can you use it if it relies on rules that don't exist? Apocalypse is a different game and Super-heavies don't exist within the context of 40k. If you think you can use the Stompa because it says the Warboss can, then the stompa doesn't have a "type", and assuming you're allowed to 'borrow' the rules from apocalypse - a different game - is a massive assumption indeed. The Stompa itself cannot be fielded due to the fact that the rules it relies on are part of a different game system.

All relevant rules for kustom mega stompas are found in Imperial Armour8(including super-heavies, destroyer hits and other things), just like Mekboss Buzzgob. If the rules for a dreadmob/Mekboss Buzzgob exists, so do the stompa rules. Either you use the book or you don't. Apocalypse is no required for the stompa, or it would have been marked "(apocalypse only)" like many other entries in that book.

Nos: Mekboss Buzzgob has a rule stating that he can be fielded riding his kustom stompa, making both use only one HQ slot.

Ah, fair enough - the point still stands for general SH

Jidmah wrote:

Mesothere wrote:

Jidmah wrote:By RAW, Buzzgob does bring his Stompa whenever he is fielded, whether you are playing apoc or not.

However, any opponent is free to simply refuse to play you, because you are exploiting an obvious loophole. It doesn't happen often, but I actually agree with nkelsch sometimes

How can you use it if it relies on rules that don't exist? Apocalypse is a different game and Super-heavies don't exist within the context of 40k. If you think you can use the Stompa because it says the Warboss can, then the stompa doesn't have a "type", and assuming you're allowed to 'borrow' the rules from apocalypse - a different game - is a massive assumption indeed. The Stompa itself cannot be fielded due to the fact that the rules it relies on are part of a different game system.

All relevant rules for kustom mega stompas are found in Imperial Armour8(including super-heavies, destroyer hits and other things), just like Mekboss Buzzgob. If the rules for a dreadmob/Mekboss Buzzgob exists, so do the stompa rules. Either you use the book or you don't. Apocalypse is no required for the stompa, or it would have been marked "(apocalypse only)" like many other entries in that book.

Nos: Mekboss Buzzgob has a rule stating that he can be fielded riding his kustom stompa, making both use only one HQ slot.

Them being within the same book is of no consequence. The fact that the rules exist within a different game system is what matters.

From the contents page of IA8:


The Super-Heavy rules are Apocalypse rules. Apocalypse is a different game.

If, for example, there was a unit in WFB called "Super-heavy" (or, for the sake of argument, any other unit type) what exactly stops you assuming the rules for a fantasy super-heavy? The fact that is within a different game system. This situation is entirely the same. Apocalypse is not the same game, and does not, for the most part, follow the same rules.

You are aware that super-heavies can be fielded outside of apocalypse, right? Like in spearhead?

Mekboss Buzzgob is an addition to the game itself. His rules tell you that he has a stompa as described on page 193. Page 193 tells you that his stompa is a super-heavy. So by adding Mekboss Buzzgob to the regular 40k rules, you also add his stompas and super-heavy walkers to the 40k rules. Just like the Elysian army (from the same book!) adds flyers to regular games, see page 103.

Comparing apocalypse to WHFB tis hyperbole at the very least.

Besides, all apoc rules not stating "have fun with your friends!" or containing datasheets are about 20 pages, as opposed to the BRB being 100. You're sure that 40k and apoc "does not, for the most part, follow the same rules"? I mean, like shooting, movement, close combat, USR, psychic powers, independet characters, blast weapons, templates, vehicles, morale, deep strike or about every rule in the entire BRB other than deployment and building your army?

Do you know the difference between "expansion" and "different game"?

Jidmah wrote:You are aware that super-heavies can be fielded outside of apocalypse, right? Like in spearhead?

Mekboss Buzzgob is an addition to the game itself. His rules tell you that he has a stompa as described on page 193. Page 193 tells you that his stompa is a super-heavy. So by adding Mekboss Buzzgob to the regular 40k rules, you also add his stompas and super-heavy walkers to the 40k rules. Just like the Elysian army (from the same book!) adds flyers to regular games, see page 103.

Comparing apocalypse to WHFB tis hyperbole at the very least.

Besides, all apoc rules not stating "have fun with your friends!" or containing datasheets are about 20 pages, as opposed to the BRB being 100. You're sure that 40k and apoc "does not, for the most part, follow the same rules"? I mean, like shooting, movement, close combat, USR, psychic powers, independet characters, blast weapons, templates, vehicles, morale, deep strike or about every rule in the entire BRB other than deployment and building your army?

Do you know the difference between "expansion" and "different game"?

...what exactly allows super-heavies to be fielded in spearhead?

Additionally, I'd like for you to point out where exactly it states you're allowed to assume the Apocalypse-only superheavy rules in a game of regular 40k - outside of the statement you just gave, which isn't to be found anywhere in the rules. The Elysian rules sound like the suffer from the same problem, but I haven't read those ones, so I won't comment.

I'm not sure how the length of the rules is at all relevant to this conversation. About me saying "does not, for the most part, follow the same rules" - poorly worded on my part. I meant that in regards to what we're talking about - deployment, force organisations, special rules such as super-heavies and destroyer weapons and other such things of the like.

Apocalypse does indeed expand upon the 40k rules as it relies on portions of them. The same cannot be said for 40k - which does NOT automatically assume the Apocalypse ruleset, because Apocalypse is a different game.

One of the Spearhead formations allows you to field 1 (and only 1) Super-heavy vehicle. However, it suffers an automatic penetrating hit (unless in reserves), so there is a possibility of it blowing up at the very beginning of Turn 1 (and knowing my luck, it would happen...)

Happyjew wrote:One of the Spearhead formations allows you to field 1 (and only 1) Super-heavy vehicle. However, it suffers an automatic penetrating hit (unless in reserves), so there is a possibility of it blowing up at the very beginning of Turn 1 (and knowing my luck, it would happen...)

Is that in a different book? In the BGB all noticed was a different deployment method

Mesothere wrote:Additionally, I'd like for you to point out where exactly it states you're allowed to assume the Apocalypse-only superheavy rules in a game of regular 40k

As soon as you are fielding Mekboss Buzzgob from Imperial Armour 8, you are not playing a game of regular 40k.

- outside of the statement you just gave, which isn't to be found anywhere in the rules. The Elysian rules sound like the suffer from the same problem, but I haven't read those ones, so I won't comment.

The elysian army is an army with a FOC. Apoc does not use the FOC. The elysian army contains two heavy support choices which are flyers. What's the point of putting a model you claim to be apoc only in a FOC slot?

Jidmah wrote:

Mesothere wrote:Additionally, I'd like for you to point out where exactly it states you're allowed to assume the Apocalypse-only superheavy rules in a game of regular 40k

As soon as you are fielding Mekboss Buzzgob from Imperial Armour 8, you are not playing a game of regular 40k.

- outside of the statement you just gave, which isn't to be found anywhere in the rules. The Elysian rules sound like the suffer from the same problem, but I haven't read those ones, so I won't comment.

The elysian army is an army with a FOC. Apoc does not use the FOC. The elysian army contains two heavy support choices which are flyers. What's the point of putting a model you claim to be apoc only in a FOC slot?

And what are you playing? Apocalypse? A distinct campaign? Where is this stated, in the rules?

If what you claim is true, and I will have to read the Elysian part to find out, then perhaps these units are only to be used in this campaign "The Raid on Kastorel Novum", and not in regular 40k. Including the orks.

@Mesothere: Spearhead is an expansion in one of the WD magazines. It's also available to download (if your a member) at the GW website.

Happyjew wrote:@Mesothere: Spearhead is an expansion in one of the WD magazines. It's also available to download (if your a member) at the GW website.

Ah. In which case, I'd have no problem playing against a super-heavy if I were playing spearhead (not a regular 40k game). It doesn't change the argument whatsoever.

You guys are forgetting to mention that any GT will say codex units only so any FW or APOC units will be disalowed.

And I still can't find the rules for multiple detachments. Sigh...

Mesothere wrote:

Happyjew wrote:@Mesothere: Spearhead is an expansion in one of the WD magazines. It's also available to download (if your a member) at the GW website.

Ah. In which case, I'd have no problem playing against a super-heavy if I were playing spearhead (not a regular 40k game). It doesn't change the argument whatsoever.

So you claim that Spearhead is different from fielding a unit from an expansion requiring Super-Heavy rules? That's rich.

Do you need it in bold? Mekboss Buzzgob can not be fielded in a regular 40k game.

If you agree to using Mekboss Buzzgob, you agree to using stompas. Because fielding a stompa is part of his rules. Simple as that.

Is fielding a stompa at low point games a dick move? Probably. Is it against the rules? No.