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I'm thinking of having Gabriel Seth as my HQ for a flesh tearers army (1000 - 1500 pts) but his lack of jump pack makes it hard to fit him in with a survivable unit which i can fit my list round

I also want to include 1 raven (TW AC, TW MM, and hurricanes), a furioso, (BT's and HF and Melta). (I'm guessing that Seth's support will go in raven with dread.)

can anyone help? (btw i don't want people saying you can't have him with so little points or he sucks bla bla bla- if you don't have anything useful to say then don't)

Any help would be much appreciated!



o.k- anyone? please?

someone- anyone please RESPOND!

Maybe you could make a list and then people could help tweak it from there. Usually people don't make lists entirely for you from scratch here.

why don't you put him in a rhino with a deathstar unit of honor guard?

I'm not too familiar with Blood Angels, but isn't a SR an assault transport? If so Seth and a unit of honor guard would be better placed there. Though with only two vehicles they are likely to be targeted and blown up fairly quickly. That said, try it out and see if you like it. Following net lists are not mandatory.

Like I said I'm not familiar with the codex but when building a list it is useful to figure out how cost effective each unit is on paper at a particular role and go from there. Consider your meta when building your lists and make sure you bring plenty of anti-meta stuff while still have enough of the other stuff to deal with a non meta list. Basically, what I'm saying is make sure you have a good amount of anti-horde and anti-tank. How much is enough will depend on your meta, but some of the more experienced list writers here can give you a better idea if you're looking for actual numbers. The general consensus is that if you're going with mechanized go full mechanized and get target saturation, this makes it harder for your opponent to down all of your transports before they reach their targets. The opposite of this for BA seems to be a DoA list which relies on not having any transports, which doesn't gel with what you want at all but is an option for the future, and focusing on jump pack marines.

So my questions for you to answer are thus:
Seth is good at what? How do you use him to full effectiveness? Does he need a certain kind of support? Does he need a transport?
What roles do the SR and dread fill to you?
After considering this, what roles does your list lack or are weak in?

I realize its next to impossible to get a perfect balance and be good at it but this is where understanding your local meta comes in. My Deathwing for example can do anti-horde but doesn't do it nearly as well as they do anti-transport duty with their missiles, but I play in a transport heavy meta (theoretically speaking) so they work well for me.

Seth is good at what? How do you use him to full effectiveness? Does he need a certain kind of support? Does he need a transport?

He is monstrous in assault ( strength 8 rending but no pw (still with normal I)) and has whirlwind of gore which attacks all models in contact.
Also has ferocious instincts which means 1's to hit against him suffer a str 4 attack!
he only has power armour and halo 3+ armour (weak to large volleys of shots so should have some support like honour guard.) has no jump pack so ground support really . also he needs transport otherwise he'll be foot slogging. a spare spot in SR could be libby with_ and shield to help raven
get to combat quicker

What roles do the SR and dread fill to you?

sr provides A LOT of anti tank + infantry and much faster than a land raider + assault vehicle.
Sr can carry dread aswel as 12 people so dread just to pop along in the back!

After considering this, what roles does your list lack or are weak in?

probably lack of models and lack of anti tank
I wil probably fill up most of the remaining points with assault marines in rhinos or razorbacks
thanks will hopefully come up with some sort of list soon!





Automatically Appended Next Post:
O.k, Think i got new 1250 list but is completely made up in like 5 minutes. It is a non-competitive fun list (for annihilation, not objectives) and

HQ/ Gabriel seth-160
Honour guard - 200
chapter banner
meltagun
pw
SS

HQ/ libby - 115
plasma pistol

Troops/10 assault marines - 230
pf
infernus pistol

Transport/ rhino- 15

elites/ furioso dreadnought- 125
blood talons
heavy flamer

heavy support / storm raven gunship - 230
multi melta
hurricane bolters

heavy support/ devastator squad - 150
1 missile luancher
1 multi melta
1 plasma cannon
1 lascannon

1500 pts total



not very competitive - lots of room for improvement. Please comment on ways to make it better and more fun and if you want, include possibilities going up to 1500
thanks!

What's the plan for the devastators? If you have a plan then by all means go for it, but here is what pops into my head.

Multi-meltas have to be pretty close to be effective (about half the range of the other weapons) so my guess is they will be moving into position, which means less turns firing, or will sit back and shoot, which means the multi-melta is sitting around twiddling his thumbs until something gets close and still not firing. Plasma cannon is a bit unusual, but they're pretty effective, especially if MEQ is common in your meta.

I find plasma cannon useful for anti tank and infantry. Once i fired it at a nob squad, it scattered 6'' and destroyed a truck!
The multi melta i have because ran out of missile launchers/heavy bolters and other weapons are two expensive for the list. It can come in useful if a massive tank comes rolling up at my doorstep and lascannon misses!
Truthfully i want to swap melta for missile launcher but i have no backpack. I might swap for tactical marine with launcher side i am not using him but he has no backpack either!

What about the rest of the list, bearing in mind that I don't really want to buy any new models.
I have 15 jump packed marines spare
I have 1 razorback with twin lascannons
10 tactical marines
5 termiators
no foot assault marines ( although if it is REALLY necessary then I have some left over pistols and chain swords and the ability to chop up some tactical marines!

Are the 10 troops meant to be 2 squads of 5? If not you need another troops choice. Other than that I don't know about effectiveness for BA, so you'll either have to wait till someone who is more familiar with the dex to come along or try it out and see how you do. Sorry I am of limited usefulness.

They are one unit in combat squads- I think. If there is something (apart from another sarge) that 2 units can have or do that 2 combat squads can't then this may change but the main reason is that combat squads are cheaper than 2 units and more flexible than 10 men

Unfortunately, if that is the case the list is illegal since you have to have two troops choices.

Yeah I know... later on i swapped 5 assault marines for 5 tacticals so 2 5 man squads (one tactical one assault).

Played a similar list yesterday. 2vs2. Me and dark Eldar vs space wolves and smurfs. 4 objectives
They went first and shot the hell out of us. Downed raven, lascannon destroyed on razorback, 4 devastators killed (lascannon survived and proceeded to take incoming bolter fire from one devastator squad and one attack bike for 2 whole turns before dying! ), 2 honour guard killed, all 5 tacticals dead, and some dark elder warrior people died as well.

our turn i assaulted 10 tacticals with seth, libby, and 3 honour guards killed 7 and not one died
warriors shot at and killed 5 sniper scouts, terminators shot at and killed 5 different marines (in a squad of 10), assault marines disembarked from razorback and it's storm bolter, as well as the bolt pistols, shot at 10 marines and killed 3.

next turn, 2 dead termies, assault squad destroyed, tons of dark eldar killed.
assault phase, guys killed 2 more marines and suffered no casualties. [b]LASACANNON DEV. DIES!!!!

our turn, terminators kill 3 more marines and gabriel seth and co. finish off the last marine in that squad.
game ends, they have 1 objective... we have 0 (dark eldar forgot to move survivors close enough to home objective!

it failed but gariel seth and co. were beastly so just need to be able to build the rest of my list around them.