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This is what has come about from coming up with a list and bouncing it around reddit (the Warhammer board there is really helpful) as well as BoC. I've tested it once and it worked well, though played wrong on my part, against Thunderwolf Cavalry. Time to get some feedback here on Dakka:

HQ:
Belial with Lightning Claws w/Standard and Apothecary squad upgrades - 185
Terminator librarian with combi-melta - 150

Troops:
Deathwing Squad command squad Apophis - 235
Sgt. With Banner, TH/SS
Apothecary, TH/SS, CML
Three Terminators w/Lightning Claws

Deathwing Squad Vindictus -240
Sgt. with Power Sword and Storm Bolter
Terminator with TH/SS
Terminator with TH/SS
Terminator with TH/SS, CML
Terminator with Chainfist, SB

Deathwing Squad Bothynus -240
Sgt. with Power Sword and Storm Bolter
Terminator with TH/SS
Terminator with TH/SS
Terminator with TH/SS, CML
Terminator with Chainfist, SB

Deathwing Squad Ignis -240
Sgt. with Power Sword and Storm Bolter
Terminator with TH/SS
Terminator with TH/SS
Terminator with TH/SS, CML
Terminator with Chainfist, SB

Deathwing Squad Letum -240
Sgt. with Power Sword and Storm Bolter
Terminator with TH/SS
Terminator with TH/SS
Terminator with TH/SS, CML
Terminator with Chainfist, SB

Ravenwing Attack Squadron Volo - 320
6 bikes
2 melta guns
Melta bombs
Power fist
Attack bike

Land Speeder Typhoon Ventus - 75
Land Speeder Typhoon Aestus - 75

I prefer Belial with SS/TH to keep him alive for longer.
Librarians with ld9 to not cut it, so cut it. Seriously the points can buy you more firepower that you need.

Squads you really only want 4 so you can spend points elsewhere. I guess you are thinking about deathwing assault, this sometimes works well but it is far from the best tactic most of the time. In general staying at range and slowly foot slogging is the best course of action - keeping all your units on the field and making sure you have your complete firepower available each turn.

Then LCs are needed to give the edge in cc. Against a cc oriented army you will be outmanoeuvred and assaulted, you need just a pick me up to deal with this threat as they will strike before you.
Stormbolters are not that hot. I can understand having the one with a chainfist just in case the enemy chooses to put a landraider within 12'' of you.
This is for all squads, the enemy will, or at least should have, the choice of match up. You can not assume you will get the LC based squad where you want them.

Bikes are a little pricey for the firepower they supply. They also give an easy target, in a list where you are trying to give only hard targets and you are trying to keep things alive. Having them to teleport down is reasonable idea sometimes but as I mentioned above you can not guarantee you want to use this skill.

Typhoons need a multimelta I guess.

If you drop a terminator squad and the bikes you can pick a typhoon, couple of dreads and a couple of preds. This will give you a reasonable fire power and a force that can keep together and survive.

That is just my experience Currently your termies would instant kill thunderwolf cavalry?

They tie up cavalry for three or so turns. And by "played wrong" I should have included that the table was covered with tiered scenery. I should have just put them into a building and gotten rid of his long fangs and grey hunters, then taken pot shots at his Wolf Lords until he got angry

The Librarian holds his own, and that army wide psychic hood (you want Jaws or Hurricane? No sir. :I) is incredibly useful, especially against Grey Knights and Space Wolves (and there are a LOT of them in my local meta). Preds are a little on the expensive side in the DA Codex, and at the point cost, against most armies, they're not worth taking.

I'm not sure what Thunder Hammer you use but all of ours are only S8, however if you wound the enemy is at I1. As far as hoods go why not just go with Ezekiel? He is I5, has frag grenades and most importantly for you LD 10. I also agree with MFletch that Belial should have a Hammer and Shield and his point about having 4 squads. However I do disagree that a bike squad is not important to have. Granted they are a target but when you can pinpoint where you drop your squads if you want to be close. As well they bring that much desired melta to the table.

Post edited. And Here is why Ezekiel is not as good: Costs more, no permanent invulnerable save. All he has is grenades (not really needed for a termie army) and Belial has Rites of Battle so the whole army is LD 10 until he dies. And the force weapon, which, to be honest, isn't really worth it.

I understand what your saying and I was just offering some advice and another point of view. However I would like to point out that your Librarian is not making tests at LD10, he is to make them at his base LD. This is found on page 36, its states that you can use the LD10 for everything but Psychic tests. I would also point out that it is huge that he has frag grenades. He can assault into cover and still strike at I5. No one else can do that in a Terminator army, unless you are using a Crusader. In regard to an invulnerable save a normal Librarian with TDA will have a 5+ and Force Barrier if he so desires. Really if you have Ezekiel in a squad he shouldn't have to be worrying about an invulnerable, if you really need to you can use Force Barrier. Lastly the Force Weapon is a huge deal, with so many MCs and multi wound models its nice to have that back up.

Zerib wrote:I understand what your saying and I was just offering some advice and another point of view. However I would like to point out that your Librarian is not making tests at LD10, he is to make them at his base LD. This is found on page 36, its states that you can use the LD10 for everything but Psychic tests. I would also point out that it is huge that he has frag grenades. He can assault into cover and still strike at I5. No one else can do that in a Terminator army, unless you are using a Crusader. In regard to an invulnerable save a normal Librarian with TDA will have a 5+ and Force Barrier if he so desires. Really if you have Ezekiel in a squad he shouldn't have to be worrying about an invulnerable, if you really need to you can use Force Barrier. Lastly the Force Weapon is a huge deal, with so many MCs and multi wound models its nice to have that back up.

Psychic hood is not a psychic test but neither is it a leadership test, before some comes back against this. Ezekial ld10 hood is amazing, not sure he really fits deathwing or cancelling psychic powers is that important for deathwing either.

You can not compare codices and just state preds are expensive for DA. For the firepower they bring and the armour they have, they become very reasonable value for a deathwing army.

As have been mentioned, a Ld 9 Librarian is pretty meh, especially when you are pretty much only taking him for the hood.

320 pts for the bikes is quite a bit of pts for a "throw away" unit. While the homers can be nice I find it kinda gimmicky, I start with all Termies deployed most of the time.

The setup of the termies seems somewhat confused. Why would you put your expensive upgrades on the only termies with SS in the command squad? Either you risk losing a vewry expensive model ~100pts for the Apoth/CML termie or you are forced to start taking hits on your 5++ Termies when hit from afar. Thunder hammers also benefit more from the banner than the LCs do so if anything go all TH&SS in the command squad.

Im not a fan of using as many TH&SS as you are using, 2 squads is enough in my oppinon. I prefer to use the TH&SS, LC, PW&SB, SB&PF, SB&PF&CML on my other more defenice squads for some added ability to plink away from afar.

In my opinion, one of the best things about terminators is the fact they are relentless and can fire heavy on the move. Where are the heavy weapons?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh I see cml equals missles. Looks good to me then.

So I played against Orks today. It was boyz and nobz in battlewagons. I won, but it was close. The thunder hammers definitely had more survivability, especially against Deff Rolla shocks and CC power klaws.

TSMango wrote:So I played against Orks today. It was boyz and nobz in battlewagons. I won, but it was close. The thunder hammers definitely had more survivability, especially against Deff Rolla shocks and CC power klaws.

Good to hear that you won, just to make sure, you do know that Deffrollas dont ignore any armour, right?

Yeah, but he only used it twice. Once on a bike, and then once on a terminator. The Terminator did death or glory and immobilized it, then they blew it up next turn. He had two objectives to place and put them close together, so when he threw three of his wagons at my squad with belial who came in on the objective I placed, three of my squads were on the ones he placed.

TSMango wrote:Yeah, but he only used it twice. Once on a bike, and then once on a terminator. The Terminator did death or glory and immobilized it, then they blew it up next turn. He had two objectives to place and put them close together, so when he threw three of his wagons at my squad with belial who came in on the objective I placed, three of my squads were on the ones he placed.

Wow, hoping a single st8 does very particular damage to av14. You know you are fearless, right. Also death and glory doesn't stop the roller.

MFletch wrote:

TSMango wrote:Yeah, but he only used it twice. Once on a bike, and then once on a terminator. The Terminator did death or glory and immobilized it, then they blew it up next turn. He had two objectives to place and put them close together, so when he threw three of his wagons at my squad with belial who came in on the objective I placed, three of my squads were on the ones he placed.

Wow, hoping a single st8 does very particular damage to av14. You know you are fearless, right. Also death and glory doesn't stop the roller.

Well duh! Why do you think he was corageous enough to try and hit Av 14 with a str 8 hammer him being fearless goes without saying
On a more serious note, using Death or Glory on a BW with a deffrolla is really not a great move, not only will the rolla hit regardless, it will hit with 2d6 instead of just 1d6 and you have a very slim chance of actually hurting it with a hammer.

tedurur wrote:

MFletch wrote:

TSMango wrote:Yeah, but he only used it twice. Once on a bike, and then once on a terminator. The Terminator did death or glory and immobilized it, then they blew it up next turn. He had two objectives to place and put them close together, so when he threw three of his wagons at my squad with belial who came in on the objective I placed, three of my squads were on the ones he placed.

Wow, hoping a single st8 does very particular damage to av14. You know you are fearless, right. Also death and glory doesn't stop the roller.

Well duh! Why do you think he was corageous enough to try and hit Av 14 with a str 8 hammer him being fearless goes without saying
On a more serious note, using Death or Glory on a BW with a deffrolla is really not a great move, not only will the rolla hit regardless, it will hit with 2d6 instead of just 1d6 and you have a very slim chance of actually hurting it with a hammer.

I didn't use the thunder hammer. I used the chainfist. When I was referring to the thunder hammers, I meant the specific termies, because of the 3++ from the storm shield. They survived longer.

Orks do not tend to take many ap2 weapons. Klaws would not be fun but then neither is the shear weight of boys in cc(this is where the mix of TH/SS and LCs comes from)

I miss the days of 2x overpowered assault cannon per squad right after gw's +5 invulnerable save rebalance. Things have come a long way haven't they?

I like that this punishes your enemies for having relied on short ranged fire power for their high priority hunting, and I like your amount of light tank hunting. I worry about how you can't shoot your missile at anything you won't be charging before assaults and I really don't like how little your expensive squads are doing when they find themselves chasing something, but I'm sure you know better deployment than I do do I'm not too worried.

Fun list!