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So this has come up in my local gaming league and I differ with the others on this as I see it.
When you kill the wolves on a wolf lord, does he now count as a unit under half strength for the purpose of victory points?
My view is that it is not a squad and shouldn't be treated as such since the IC can still join other squads.
Feel free to have your say.

As victory points are no longer in use (They use Kill Points instead) It has no bearing on the current scenarios.

However, depending on the wording of VP's I would initially say that any unit below 1/2 str would count for this, so if you kill 2 wolves and the lord is still there you get 1/2 the points.

YMMV though.

Actually Victory points are in the rule book and are widely used in leagues to grade the battle after the game is over to ensure a more acurate show of how a battle went.
I understand how kill points work too but I am not confused thanks.

#1 I was not talking down to you.

#2 VP's are not in the base rules anymore, thus they have no bearing on the current scenarios. The KP system is now in place. (They may be in the additional optional rules, but they are not in the Base rules)

#3 Providing the rule in question will help get precise answers.

DeathReaper wrote:#1 I was not talking down to you.

#2 VP's are not in the base rules anymore, thus they have no bearing on the current scenarios. The KP system is now in place. (They may be in the additional optional rules, but they are not in the Base rules)

#3 Providing the rule in question will help get precise answers.

Victory points page 108 of the rule book. Does the wolf lord count as a unit under half strength?

Kill points is a victory condition, Victory points is not who won but how close it was interms of points post game. I disagree fundamentally that VP's or some other means to stratify the points given out in a tournament or league have no bearing on the current scenarios when it comes to army building, why else would people be worried about units "gaining back their cost" in terms of enemy kills?

As the 'Units at half strength' At the end of the game every surviving enemy unit that has lost half of its initial models or more is worth half of its cost in VP's

So the wolf lord with 2 wolves starts the game as a 3 model unit, if it ends with 1 model it is worth 1/2 its VP's

and remember that Victory points has nothing to do with the scenarios in the book, and the victory conditions therein.

For corollary, Tau drones selected as Wargear count towards determining unit strength for VPs and Morale.

DeathReaper wrote:As the 'Units at half strength' At the end of the game every surviving enemy unit that has lost half of its initial models or more is worth half of its cost in VP's

So the wolf lord with 2 wolves starts the game as a 3 model unit, if it ends with 1 model it is worth 1/2 its VP's

and remember that Victory points has nothing to do with the scenarios in the book, and the victory conditions therein.

Ok, suppose I'll just have to eat that points loss.

Yes, who wins a game in the rulebook scenarios is nothing to do with victory points but a tournament is not one game in isolation. There is an aspect of the meta game that works on the prioritising of killing not only strategically important units, ie troops to prevent them holding objectives or the death star that could be problematic, but higher cost units as it will leave you with a better standing after that game in the tournament.
The fact that the rulebook comes with a handy metric, that people do use, for contrasting how well each battle went for the victor and loser means that it is a consideration in your mind when playing the game, is it worth it to win but drop 200 points of troops into a meat grinder, hence it is part of every game and how you play even if you don't see it.

So to clarify my position and make it very clear cos I am not sure I am communicating this correctly.
VP's do not equal winning a game but they equal winning in a tournament.

They can equal "winning in a tournament." if the tournament uses the VP system.

The tournaments I have played in, and run, have not used VP's as there was no real need for it.

Ard Boyz used VP last year... fairly common mechanic. But yes, those dead puppies count as members of your unit for points. Look at it this way, they were a cheap way of saving the other half of those points.

When youre not playing sufficient rounds to determine a clear winner, most places (including my tournaments) use VPs to split people on equal tournament points

I never said it doesn't happen, I just said they have no bearing on the current scenarios.

I played a 3 game mini tourney with 10 teams total and we did not have any ties.

but that is just from what I have experienced.

Whereas we played a 3 round 50 player tournament, and you DO need this.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Whereas we played a 3 round 50 player tournament, and you DO need this.

Agree. It has happened many times and ultimately breaks ties.

I am in agreement that it happens, and I never said it doesn't happen, I just said they have no bearing on the current scenarios.

When you want to power play people in any decent sized tournament you need to have a broader spread of points then just win draw lose. Without a second metric to give a greater spread other then w/l/d you end up with random pull ups and pull downs. I may not be an expert on running 40k tournaments but I have run tournaments that require tab programs and seperating out the people at the bubble on the bell curve is rather important to the tournament's structure and naming clear winners.

When you have a second metric no matter what one you pic then that will become part of the considerations people put into practice when playing. The meta game will always extend beyond one game in isolation, there are many problems that can crop up when people are being overly meta in their method of play but that is no less of a problem no matter the way a tournament is laid out.

I think this has gotten a little off topic.

Or you run straight win / loss and enough rounds to g'tee a single winner.

Starting to get O/T however, we use VP's as our primary tie-breakers after our 3 rounders.

As to the OP's question though,

I agree with this, as it's a fair basis for comparison.

Jefffar wrote:For corollary, Tau drones selected as Wargear count towards determining unit strength for VPs and Morale.

To get back on topic, I'd like to offer an opinion.

Naturally, since VP aren't in the BRB, the TO who chooses to use VP will decide the details of how they are calculated. Having said that, if I were a TO who decided to use VP, I wouldn't use wolves taken as wargear to measure if a unit was at half strength or not because of how the FAQ describes their use. The wolves you describe we're "taken as wargear". If the Wolf Lord joined a unit of Fenrisian Wolves and that unit dropped below 50% then sure, but since the FAQ states that wolves taken as wargear do not count as a "unit" I would have to say they don't count. In other codexes where a wargear option specifically states that it does count as a unit it would be a different story.

NightHowler wrote:Naturally, since VP aren't in the BRB

Page 108 (Small rule book), page 300 (Big rule book)

Happyjew wrote:

NightHowler wrote:Naturally, since VP aren't in the BRB

Page 108 (Small rule book), page 300 (Big rule book)

Thank you, sir. I stand corrected.