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I have an interesting idea for some rough riders for my guard. However I have never actually fielded them so I am looking for some advice and best to equip them and get the most use out of them.

Is giving them any upgrades a good idea or worth it at all?

Squad size? Keep it small or max it out? Even maxed out they are only 105 points but it makes there footprint much bigger and harder to hide. But what they do hit won't be left standing and that's the point right?

Am I only just aiming for that one hit wonder charge? Even if they are left very exposed afterwards does it matter since they have prolly well made back there points.

Are there any units they should avoid? Or as long as they attack first or at the same time go for it?

I want to like Rough riders, but I just can't. They don't hit hard enough to really hurt a dedicated assault unit, so they're largely relegated to picking on units that will either die in one assault, or be severely damaged. They're still WS3, so against almost everything they hit on 4s, meaning a full squad will only land ten hits on average. This means they'll kill 6-7 MEQ models before they can strike back, but that number drops significantly against anything with an invuln save.

The problem doesn't so much lie with the Rough Riders as it does with the proliferation of assault units with invulns, which reduces that 6-7 kills to 3-4 with a 4++ or 2-3 with a 3++.

There are potential fixes for them, but I won't get into that now.

If you're going to run them, take 10 and give them two meltaguns so they can run around and cause havoc after they spend their lances. Comes out to 125pts and is about as durable as tissue paper. They're certainly fun, and getting the charge will put a smile on your face.

If they could have bigger squads - or platoons - with mounted commissars and mounted priests for the re-roll, they'd be good, but now...ehhhh.

Good luck!

Hmm but they still would still cripple a squad of meqs. Even ones deticated to CC. Charging in a squad of termis would seem like they would really knock the wind out of them as well.

I have looked at the idea of running these, and, never realy found it appealing. The cost of having to get the models just to field them, coupled with the fact that they just look, well, good for one shot. I would just rather run stormtroopers. I have nothing against them, there just seems better options. Blacksails seems to have it all figured out.

Full sized squads, no upgrades. Keep them cheap.

Yeah, they're just guardsman level of tough, but they're one of the few things that saturates against both infantry platoons and HWSs/SWSs/CCSs. Plus, you only need to get part of the squad into close combat in order for them to pack a nasty surprise.

Put them on the field, point them at a target you want to die, and charge them in. Easy as that.

The only real problem with them is that their models are expensive and ugly.

Alright thanks for the input guys!

Oh what bases so they need to be on? I am going to be putting some work into these models and won't bemusing thenrough riders kit at all.

Do they need to go on square cav bases from fantasy or long round bike bases?

A Matter of Pride wrote:Hmm but they still would still cripple a squad of meqs. Even ones deticated to CC. Charging in a squad of termis would seem like they would really knock the wind out of them as well.

See, this is where I disagree. A full squad will bring 21 attacks to bear on the charge. Lets assume everyone's in B2B or within assault range. WS3 against WS4 (most likely marines) means you're only landing 10-11 of those attacks. Now against T4, which is the most common, you'll only deal two thirds of that in wounds, leaving you with an average of 7 wounds dealt. So that's 7 normal marines. The problem arises against any invuln saves. Against normal termies, you'll manage to get 4 through, mostly killing them, but the more common enemy are hammernators. You'll only kill ~2 hammernators, who then proceed to wipe out your squad at their leisure.

You'll even have problems against nobz, who will have a 5++ and wound shenanigans, leaving you with no nobz killed, just some wounded. The list goes on.

I really want to like rough riders, but they're actually not as killy as they should be. They can't wipe out any decent sized squad due to a combination of low WS and low attacks. If they had D3 attacks on the charge, or a 6++, or bigger squads, or mounted priests, or mounted commissars, or were scoring, or any number of other possibilities, they would be viable. As they are now, they're simply a fun unit to try out in casual games.

Ok I can certainly see your point there. Against termis with a 2++ they don't do great. But dropping 4 termis isn't to bad if you don't have the right ap to deal with them.


Wouldn't some MCs be a decent target? The could potentially drop a DP on the charge if not leave him with one wound at the least.

There threat range is fairly long isn't it? 18"?

They're good for their points against marines, but really they come into their own against slightly heavier targets. More importantly for the marines, as well, is that they can't do things like spread out to avoid taking casualties from blast weapons.

For the price of an assault termie squad, you're putting down two squads of rough riders. That's 6 dead termies with storm shields. Problem solved, and that's with a 3++. Likewise, for the price of a trygon you can get 15 rough riders which puts down, what, 8 wounds? What else in your army is one-shotting a TMC?

The "they only attack once" argument is silly. Look at the total amount of damage that they do over the course of the game, and compare it to other units. That they do an entire game's worth of damage in a single charge is a good thing, right? How much more damage do they have to do after the mauling that they give whatever they attacked?

Plus, to be fair, after the charge they still have the extended range attack, and krak grenades.

I must admit, Ailaros nailed how you should take them, though I still think they're limited in what they can do and how much damage they can actually put out. Bringing 20-30 rough riders in 2-3 squads will certainly kill one tough cc unit, but they're really only useful in a foot list. Otherwise, mech lists will find vendettas and hellhounds infinitely more useful.

I still believe Rough Riders need some kind of a buff to be truly useful and a viable selection for a number of builds. They're still too niche, I find. Don't forget, you still have to get the charge (though easier being cavalry) and arrive with as many models in B2B/assault range without dying first.

Blacksails wrote:but they're really only useful in a foot list.

Well, it's not that they lose any utility in a chimera-heavy list, so much as they become redundant. It's not just the vendettas (which only sort of have the same target type), but more the plasma guns. RRs help reduce the amount of plasma you have to take, but still...

Blacksails wrote:

A Matter of Pride wrote:Hmm but they still would still cripple a squad of meqs. Even ones deticated to CC. Charging in a squad of termis would seem like they would really knock the wind out of them as well.

See, this is where I disagree. A full squad will bring 21 attacks to bear on the charge. Lets assume everyone's in B2B or within assault range. WS3 against WS4 (most likely marines) means you're only landing 10-11 of those attacks. Now against T4, which is the most common, you'll only deal two thirds of that in wounds, leaving you with an average of 7 wounds dealt. So that's 7 normal marines. The problem arises against any invuln saves. Against normal termies, you'll manage to get 4 through, mostly killing them, but the more common enemy are hammernators. You'll only kill ~2 hammernators, who then proceed to wipe out your squad at their leisure.

Rough riders are a scalpel. You already have an enormous amount of special and heavy weapons of all shapes and sizes, flavors and styles. The thing is, you can shoot plasma at my plague marines, but im in cover and going to ground. You send in a pack of rough riders, and you can ping down 4-5 of them. since they only come in small squads (with me they certainly come in squads of 5-7) all you need to do is wipe 3 of them out with shooting to have a good chance of wiping the unit using the rough riders. Because shooting more weapons at plague marines in cover might not be the best way to continue the shooting phase.

Ailaros wrote:For the price of an assault termie squad, you're putting down two squads of rough riders. That's 6 dead termies with storm shields. Problem solved, and that's with a 3++. Likewise, for the price of a trygon you can get 15 rough riders which puts down, what, 8 wounds? What else in your army is one-shotting a TMC?

Exactly. They are a scalpel. Not a longfang-esque competitive unit, but certainly a viable, useful unit. With a surprising charge range, all they need to do is take out that tac squad going for an objective, and they've done enough.

Plus, they are CAVALRY for god's sake. How cool is that? I am currently working up a squad mounted on Cold Ones. I'm pretty convinced they can make their points back, and besides, just having them on the table will make me so happy. There are four people who play SW at my FLGS, I will use them to take out a squad of long fangs.

BB

I have found two styles of using RRs that I like. They are both for the 10 riders with no upgrades version.

One way is to keep them in reserve as a counter attack force. This way you can charge almost anything on your side of the table. Even better if you can use a move move move order.

The other way is to keep them behind a wall of three or so chimeras. This keeps the completely out of LOS to things on the other side, and they can charge forward to counter threats to the chimeras. After the charge I find they are best just riding around with krak grenades causing trouble.

I made mine out of dark elf cold one knights, with mortar rounds on the tip of their lances.

beerbeard wrote:Plus, they are CAVALRY for god's sake. How cool is that?

QFT.

All of the best tactical advice on how to use them has been covered above - as for cost of models and naffness, there's a few very good sources of cheap alternative GW-based moulds, not least of which is Victoria Lamb.
http://www.victorialamb.com/wugs/Guard/RoughRider/Rough%20Riders.htm



Designed to be compatible with GW Cadian torsos, or her own range of praetorian-ish minis. Depending on whether your FLGS allows non-GW minis or not, they're a real snap and look great. cheap horses of the right scale can be found if you hunt about as well.

Still really keen to get enough minis for a 30-rider IG cavalry platoon.

Oh, and the only other bit of tactical advice I can give is that they are very cheap for their threat bubble. most MEQ players I face are very reluctant to get within 18" of them with troops on foot, and that affects their play style, giving the rest of your forces some breathing space. I like to hide 'em behind a russ or the like for cover, then whomp them forward for a glorious charge. And yes, they're not that great against orks, but they're good at what they do.

I've used them a few times with good and bad results.

Once I charged 6 of them at a group of 5 lightning claw terminators killing 3 of them and then dying (as I expected, it's only 6 guardsmen)

Then once I multi-charged a group of melta-vets with 6 (splitting 4 on the vets and 2 on the vendetta) and an immobilised vendetta and only killed 2 vets and stunned the vendetta, in later turns they eventually beat the rough riders and they ran off the board.

I love the look of my rough riders and they go with the fluff of my army.

I agree with keeping them cheap since giving them special weapons gets rid of some of those nice one shot lances. I'll have 1 or 2 squads of 6 following behind my 2 blob squads and use them to counter-charge or finish something off.

I like rough riders. They can be devastating en-masse. I played an apoc game when 30 of them charged the Masters of the Chapter with an Lord Commissar in a Chimera with a Regimental Standard six inches away. I've never seen guardsmen utterly destroy marine heroes like that. There was like one marine left after the charge round.

I really don't think special weapons belong on RR-

Plasma- cannot charge after shooting. Might be useful after the first round of CC, but there's a good chance they will die before using it.
Melta- semi-useful. But considering how many special/heavy weaps you can get in guard, it's nothing too special for another tankbusting unit and doesn't fit with their 6" move and 12" charge. If they were beasts however...
Flamer- Same as meltagun, would be better if they move 12" charge 6". Possibly deny yourself a charge (harder to do with 12", but can happen), and you lose a lance for taking it (IIRC)

Jihallah wrote: if they move 12" charge 6"...

Right, it's the move 6, charge 12 that kills special weapons. With special weaps, they're no faster than foot guard, which sort of defies the point of taking cavalry.

That said, I could see a meltabomb for the sarge as an appropriate upgrade, as the sarge can be kept alive slightly longer. Otherwise...

Don't Beasts and Cavalry follow exactly the same movement rules? Both move 6" and assault 12", according to page 54. . .

But yeah, no special weapons on Rough Riders. If you're using special weapons, they're just more expensive Guardsmen.

BeRzErKeR wrote:Don't Beasts and Cavalry follow exactly the same movement rules? Both move 6" and assault 12", according to page 54. . .

But yeah, no special weapons on Rough Riders. If you're using special weapons, they're just more expensive Guardsmen.

But with horses!!!!
Agreed on nothing but a HL and a melta bomb if you have the points.

BeRzErKeR wrote:Don't Beasts and Cavalry follow exactly the same movement rules? Both move 6" and assault 12", according to page 54. . .

><! Beast's=/=bikes. Someone is feeling special today. That someone is me

I was skeptical about Rough Riders at first, but I managed to get my hands on a ton of marauder horsemen for really cheap back in the day. After failed attempts to sell them (fantasy is rare in my area) I decided to convert them into Rough Riders to take on the field.

I would do it again if asked because I have found them to be pretty awesome.

One thing they have going for them is people don't see them that often. So they, not knowing their strength, will more often than not elect to shoot at something like your tanks or HWSs. Which will be good for you because they are free to make a surgical strike on something nasty and make it disappear.

My rough riders' most epic moment: 20 of them charging into 13 Khorne Berserkers lead my Kharn. Though they took horrendous casualties from Kharn they managed to decimate 10 berserkers and kill Kharn before winning the combat and watching the last three berserkers fail their fearless armor saves. Though after that they got cut down with bolter fire, they still more than made up for their points.

I agree with not running special weapons on them. They are far to squishy for holding such an expensive piece of equipment. Treat them instead like a glass dagger, as in, give them a target and make it crumble before a glorious charge. They will die, but they die gloriously!

The other alternative, when facing opponents with lots of deep striking, is to use them to screen your valuable tanks and targets. The opponent will be forced to deepstrike out of the melta's 2d6 range and it will grant the vehicle a cover save. After they are done failing to assassinate your tank, charge them with your rough riders and watch them shriek in horror as their expensive deep strikers melt under 20 str 5 I 5 power weapon attacks.