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Just started with this army on Xmas and have sunk a couple of hundred dollars into it. Here is my take on Space Wolves as I move up to 2500 points.

Strengths:

1) Counter Attack
2) Long Fangs
3) Ragnar and his ability to make guards troops
4) Guards ability to break off one per 5 onto another troop set
5) Rune Priests, 100 (or 110 for one with chosen) has them hitting on 2's and wounding on 2's vs. most troop choices on d6 attacks, also Murderous hurricane gives them average 10 S3 hits on a unit + difficult and dangerous terrain.
6) a set of 10 hunters get 2 free weapon upgrades
Here would be my 1500 list

HQs

2 Rune Priests - 1 with Chosen so both can see it - 210 pts

why - every time I've proxy'd them at my local hobby shop or with my buds, they have ALWAYS killed more then their pt value. I hang them back with my long fangs as additional long range (LL) power and if my back line ever gets rushed, they cast Murderous Hurricane.

Heavy Support

18 times long fangs, 15 with ML's - 420 pts

Why - can frag the heck out of troops and a ton of good attacks vs. transports (even if someone gets an armour 14 vehicle on the board 15 chances to glance to death). For 33 points I think it's a deal.

troopx

three times

5X Hunters - one with free melta, one with free flamer - 75
in DPs - 35
2 with deahtwind missle lanchers- 20 pts

370 pts


Strategy -

1st turn drop my 2 Dp's with DW missle launchers on the first turn and get those off +2 Meltas + 2 Flamers first turn to thin out troops on the ground as much as possible. Take out armoured stuff first with my ML's . Use Rune Priests to thin out troops 1st turn or pop light vehicles if there aren't enough troops deployed.

2nd turn..drop 3 drop pod in and continue to eliminate anything armoured with my ML's and Rune priest.

The 3 sets of troops are basically designed to be targets for the enemy to waste their attacks on while my ranged attacks take everything out.

As I move up to 1500 then 2000 and 2500..I will add more 5x troops then move to 6x guards (having 1 guard in each set move off to join the long fangs, with term armour and cyclone missle launcher) So end game will have 4 drop pods all with missle launchers coming in first turn.

Just wanted to get some thoughts here. I know SW's are assualty and Ragnar and Logan are awesome,but expensive....figured more bang for my buck my just exploiting the missle launcher aspect of the army and ending up with 18 MLs (3 guards) and 2 rune priests just blasting people.

Amidoinitwrong?



Automatically Appended Next Post:
anything?

I think you're 5 points over your 1k limit, as 5 GH with a Melta costs 5 points more than 5 GH with a Flamer. The "free gun" special rule applies not only on a per squad basis, but also only applies to squads of 10. Should you desire to take two special weapons per squad, you would need to either go up to 10 models apiece, or take the "discount" option of a Wolf Guard squad leader with a Combi-weapon.

Also, its not exactly clear, but it sounds like you have two Rune Priests both with Living Lightning and Murderous Hurricane. While you indeed have used the single CotS on one RP to differentiate between the two wargear-wise, you also need to pick different spells for them as well (as according to the Leaders of the Pack rule.)

However, you can still take Living Lightning on both, you just need to pick two different spells as their other choice. I would suggest either Stormcaller or Jaws of the World Wolf.

yeah, I realized the 10 hunter free thing after I posted it. I can change the 2nd power on one of the priests to differentiate it as well. Thanks for helping me clean that up.

As far as the general idea...solid?

almostreal wrote:yeah, I realized the 10 hunter free thing after I posted it. I can change the 2nd power on one of the priests to differentiate it as well. Thanks for helping me clean that up.

As far as the general idea...solid?

I think so, but I really don't have much experience with drop pods. The rest of the army, however, should do rather well, as LF Missiles and Rune Priests are some of the best shooting in the game at the moment. Especially that many shots at 1k points.

3) Ragnar and his ability to make guards troops

>You mean Logan Grimmnar

4) Guards ability to break off one per 5 onto another troop set

>There is no limit, you can split all of your WG as pack leaders if you want.


HQs

2 Rune Priests - 1 with Chosen so both can see it - 210 pts

>At 1,000 points I would only go with one.

Heavy Support

18 times long fangs, 15 with ML's - 420 pts

>Not only is this cheesy, if your opponent has even 1 AV14 tank you will just be bouncing your missiles off of it. Plus, spending this much on heavy support means you are going to be very light on troops.


troopx

three times

5X Hunters - one with free melta, one with free flamer - 75
in DPs - 35
2 with deahtwind missle lanchers- 20 pts

370 pts

>You don't get free heavy weapons with 5 GH, you get a second free one when you buy 10. Unlike regular marines, you can't combat squad them. Also, with only 15 GH getting out of those pods, you are going to get owned in a very serious way.

Strategy -

1st turn drop my 2 Dp's with DW missle launchers on the first turn and get those off +2 Meltas + 2 Flamers first turn to thin out troops on the ground as much as possible. Take out armoured stuff first with my ML's . Use Rune Priests to thin out troops 1st turn or pop light vehicles if there aren't enough troops deployed.

2nd turn..drop 3 drop pod in and continue to eliminate anything armoured with my ML's and Rune priest.

The 3 sets of troops are basically designed to be targets for the enemy to waste their attacks on while my ranged attacks take everything out.

As I move up to 1500 then 2000 and 2500..I will add more 5x troops then move to 6x guards (having 1 guard in each set move off to join the long fangs, with term armour and cyclone missle launcher) So end game will have 4 drop pods all with missle launchers coming in first turn.

Just wanted to get some thoughts here. I know SW's are assualty and Ragnar and Logan are awesome,but expensive....figured more bang for my buck my just exploiting the missle launcher aspect of the army and ending up with 18 MLs (3 guards) and 2 rune priests just blasting people.

Amidoinitwrong?

>kinda

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ok...I got a DP from the Battalion box that I didn't want to just not use. I bought another one....kind of don't want to just shelve them.

The 5 hunters in the DP's will get owned, you are right. I know alot of people just load up the Las/Plas razor backs to take care of AM14 things. One of the dudes I kick it with plays Necrons and I think that Ghost Barge is 14....so I'll have to deal with that.

Tell me, the thing I'm worried most about using DP's is that you can't assault out of them. So I get my shots after they drop and unless I have a bunch of them, those guys will het hammered. Even 10 of them probably. Would running a Rune priest with Murderous Hurricane and 9 hunters and having Rune priest cast MH as his shooting attack help out at all? At least it might eliminate some dudes if my opponent wants to move or charge on the next turn.

I appreciate the input, just trying to do something a little different and figure this army out.

Thx

You can win with anything, and you can have fun with anything. But certain lists will get you beat quickly even in friendly games, and that isn't fun. The thing to remember is target priority, both for you and for your opponent. If you are playing an objective game, and you drop those pods near one, your opponent is going to concentrate his fire on whatever walks out of them. That is ok if it is a dread, or termies, because they have a better chance of surviving and meanwhile your grey hunters are coming on hard and fast. But if you have 3 troop units, and two of them are in pods... guess what will be blown up first. Units of 5 hunters in pods are not viable, they can't kill enough on their shooting turn to survive the enemy's shooting. 10 hunters maybe, but only if you have other high priority targets as a distraction. Like a Land Raider

Also, read the SW drop pod rules carefully. You have to bring in half (rounded up) on the 1st turn. Your opponent will know this, and plan for it. For example, when I play a drop pod/deep striking army, I string my cheap guard squads out to deny a good place to land, keeping the enemy at range. When they land... well, use your imagination.

I'm not saying you can't use drop pods, there are a lot of SW lists that use them very effectively. Take a look on here, on Bolter and Chainsword, and the Space Wolf Blog for good examples.\

Good luck.

BB

for sure, appreciate the advice. I have some experience with other armies...IG and Nids, and I'm still trying to find the wolves identity I guess other then just counter striking and charging with 30 attacks using an HQ (which I've played before).

I've now set myself up a 1500 point list that I think can accomodate my long fangs and has enough firepower with some strength 9 and 10 stuff for heavy transport attacks.

Gonna stick Dreds (Ven Dreds probably) in a couple of drop pods and see how that rolls. 1 for my 1500 list that can come down and hopefully engage and destroy 1 enemy troop unit or go bang a tank out. Take my chances with 15 missle launchers on light vehicles and thinning out troops and maybe glancing something to death if need be.

I appreciate the advice, gave me some good perspective on it...was getting tunnel-vision.

Peace.

Missile spam is great, I run 2 squads in my local league and them combined with twin linked laz razorbacks solves any armour issues. Lazcannons on av14 is a tight roll but kraks will just bounce you need to be aware that kracks are for killing light armour or space marines not terminators and a land raider.

The weakness of 5 man squads is that they just can't hack it on the field when it comes to taking fire and assaulting. The 3+ save will only stop so much and you need to either stop using drop pods or bump them up to 8/9 man squads with a wg leader. A 5 man squad with all the buffs will still get nailed just due to weight of numbers, the reason an ork horde, death company, beserkers are so good in combat is cos they hit with so many attacks that it's gonna drag you down.
I run mounted troops for the following reasons; mobility, 6" is fine but there are times when you need to rush objectives and relying on running troops is a fools game, cover, you can keep your men safe from a lot of low strenght weapons while you're loaded up and can take pot shots back with your rune priest or assault weapon GH.

I know you've paid for the models etc but if you want to win tournaments you need to spend money on the meta list. I have a blood angel army that I won't be playing at a tournament ever again but it's fun to have to play with and I like the models. Hell I have a drop pod, space wolf terminators, njal and grimnar, those models will never appear in one of my army lists unless it's a game for fun.

BTW when you say "2 Rune Priests - 1 with Chosen so both can see it" that's not how it works, each rune priest needs his own chooser to be able to bump his bs.

liturgies of blood wrote:

Hell I have a drop pod, space wolf terminators, njal and grimnar, those models will never appear in one of my army lists unless it's a game for fun.

Aren't all games supposed to be fun? Sorry if that comes off d*ickish, but advice like yours is why so many new players run "netlists" and get wiped out until they learn the game. I played in a tournament lately where there were 4 SW players. 3 ran missile/las-plas razor spam lists or close to it, one guy had all foot, with termies and a dreadnought. Guess who finished second overall. No one knew what to do with him. Plus, he loves his army and had a blast with it.

So often people say things like "if you play in tournaments" which implies giant monstrosities with dozens of players. I think most of us don't ever play in those, and if we do they aren't much fun. I play at my FLGS, in a league and the occasional RTT. Those games are a lot of fun, and we all get to change our lists around, run units we like to model/paint, etc.

My point, if I have one, is that helping new players shouldn't just consist of giving the same advice for the same list over and over. almostreal has pods, he should use them and learn the best way to deploy them. I'm still working up my SW army, but as of now I have two LR Crusaders, a wolf lord, and 5 really nasty termies built. I'm going with that because I want something different than my IG, and assault termies are about as different from guardsmen as you can get. Does it fit the "meta?" No. Will I win some games with it? You bet. Oh, and btw, do I know how to destroy a SW meta list with my guard? hehe

Ok, I will climb down now.

BB

BB

I hate netlists, I have learnt how to deal with them using my redeemer-claws even if I only start with 2 models on the board, I went to a local tourney, guess what kind of army I couldn't beat was... a pod list!!!

beerbeard wrote:
Aren't all games supposed to be fun? Sorry if that comes off d*ickish, but advice like yours is why so many new players run "netlists" and get wiped out until they learn the game. I played in a tournament lately where there were 4 SW players. 3 ran missile/las-plas razor spam lists or close to it, one guy had all foot, with termies and a dreadnought. Guess who finished second overall. No one knew what to do with him. Plus, he loves his army and had a blast with it.

So what you are saying is that new players who don't know the game should take lists that make it harder to get a full game out of and hence get less out of their investment in what IS an expensive hobby? I don't know about you but when I played as a beginner it was rather disheartening to get owned in the face. Fact is that certain units in the game are less good than others, players take into account the greatest kill to cost ratio for their army and use that metric to build their list. Hell you said it yourself

beerbeard wrote:But certain lists will get you beat quickly even in friendly games, and that isn't fun.

Just cos I tend to agree with consensus on what units work well in a space wolf list doesn't mean I am wrong, conventional wisdom isn't always right but when people are playing lots of games out there and reporting back that certian units and tactics work then maybe there is something to it. That isn't to say you have to follow the advice but don't snap my fething head off for offering it.

beerbeard wrote:
So often people say things like "if you play in tournaments" which implies giant monstrosities with dozens of players. I think most of us don't ever play in those, and if we do they aren't much fun. I play at my FLGS, in a league and the occasional RTT. Those games are a lot of fun, and we all get to change our lists around, run units we like to model/paint, etc.

I've played a lot of armies over the years and play in a group with a lot of beginners, do i advise them in the best way to kill the meta lists, yes but that's cos we are looking to play and play well in the tournaments.
I enjoy playing games for fun, I own all the space wolf characters all the BA characters and run DC and DC dreads in my army, those games are different for the simple fact you go in with a different mentality then a tournament where WINNING is the goal. I am sorry you don't enjoy those large tournaments but I do, they are a great place to meet people, see amazingly well painted armies, see how other people play with similar and wildely different armies from the same codex.

beerbeard wrote:
My point, if I have one, is that helping new players shouldn't just consist of giving the same advice for the same list over and over. almostreal has pods, he should use them and learn the best way to deploy them. I'm still working up my SW army, but as of now I have two LR Crusaders, a wolf lord, and 5 really nasty termies built. I'm going with that because I want something different than my IG, and assault termies are about as different from guardsmen as you can get. Does it fit the "meta?" No. Will I win some games with it? You bet. Oh, and btw, do I know how to destroy a SW meta list with my guard? hehe

I saw a list that was trying to be two things shooty and drop pod, at 1000 points you can't be both. You loose out on your troops efficacy or you have to drop the long fangs down.
I don't know what almostreal's 1500 point list is like but I offered some points on what he could do. Since he is droping dreads maybe he will stick the troops in an APC instead, up to him in the end.

My point was more that you shouldn't stick to a unit just cos you own it, since he is growing his army he can buy and try different units and tactics, I would rather he gets value for money from what experience I can impart to him instead of having to bin 20 skyclaws cos they don't work for him.




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Grimnarsmate wrote:I hate netlists, I have learnt how to deal with them using my redeemer-claws even if I only start with 2 models on the board, I went to a local tourney, guess what kind of army I couldn't beat was... a pod list!!!

Pod lists can work but you need to have something in them, that's what I said when advising bumping the numbers. BTW how does the redeemer compare to a crusader for lots of claws? I just have it in my head that the crusader would be a little better against hordes and troops since it shoots more guns when moving.

Redeemers can take the full 15 claws plus a wolf priest and blood claws really, really need wolf priests

Grimnarsmate wrote:Redeemers can take the full 15 claws plus a wolf priest and blood claws really, really need wolf priests

Not accourding to my codex... mine says 12 for a redeemer, 16 for a crusader.

with all of that said, I ended up trading my 2 drop pods to a buddy for a razorback and some termies (I already had a few). I have fun regardless if I win or lose, it's just funner for me if I can be as competitive as possible. Tabling someone to me is just as unfun as being tabled. I want a fun and competitive game and no, I don't really play tournaments....I'm mostly a painter who wants to have a nice list that's fun to play (which I find the ML's).

After proxy'ing a bunch of lists with my generous buds who allowed me to do that, strategy wise it didn't make sense to run DP's unless I could have 5 of them in a 1500 point game and 7 in a 2000 point game. They aren't fun to build and just required I set my list up in a certain way and buy a TON of mini's.

Basically I'm running a las/plas razorback and Rocket Launcher spam in 1500 games and above that I'm taking a LR and putting a deathstar unit in it and I really like SW Terms.

I mean, if all I wanted to do was win I'd just make the most broken list available with the most overpowered army and be done with it....but that's no fun, just want to make the best list possible with models I like to paint with a fun army. SW's are that to me...if I lose some games, big deal...the mini's will still look awesome and I'll have fun.