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So I'm just starting out with Warhammer 40k. I'm building up my army but I haven't even played a real full game yet. I keep seeing posts about leaked 6th edition rules and that has brought up a few concerns for me. I use to play a lot of card games like Magic the Gathering and every new block usually meant changes and old cards no longer being allowed. I'm playing just vanilla SM and I'm not really concerned with tournament level play, I just want to make sure I'm playing the game correctly without blowing too much money.

Is it expected that some units will be cut from the rosters or no longer be allowed to take certain loadouts? If some units are cut, could I use the old ones as proxies for another unit? I'm still building my army so I don't want to have a bunch of my units no longer be allowed.
Are new units expected for each race?
Is there any idea of when the 6th edition will be released?
Will new Codexs (Codexies?, Codecies?) come out with the 6th edition rule book?
Also, is there a leaked rule changes for dummies because I don't understand half of what is said in the posts?

Thanks for helping me understand. Everyone has always been so helpful on this sight.

If you are playing Marines, you will probably be fine. They are the "safest" army out there. They are the flag ship. Just build a solid core and you will be fine. As the flagship they usually get a codex early after a new edition comes out. Usually a good thing till it ages and other codexes pass it. Marines usually don't loose units, they usualy gain stuff.

shamroll wrote:So I'm just starting out with Warhammer 40k. I'm building up my army but I haven't even played a real full game yet. I keep seeing posts about leaked 6th edition rules and that has brought up a few concerns for me. I use to play a lot of card games like Magic the Gathering and every new block usually meant changes and old cards no longer being allowed. I'm playing just vanilla SM and I'm not really concerned with tournament level play, I just want to make sure I'm playing the game correctly without blowing too much money.

Is it expected that some units will be cut from the rosters or no longer be allowed to take certain loadouts? If some units are cut, could I use the old ones as proxies for another unit? I'm still building my army so I don't want to have a bunch of my units no longer be allowed.
Are new units expected for each race?
Is there any idea of when the 6th edition will be released?
Will new Codexs (Codexies?, Codecies?) come out with the 6th edition rule book?
Also, is there a leaked rule changes for dummies because I don't understand half of what is said in the posts?

Thanks for helping me understand. Everyone has always been so helpful on this sight.

Everything in your codex will still be legal, so you don't need to worry about having your models invalidated. What WILL probably change is the effectiveness of certain units and certain builds. If this is important to you, and I don't think it is because you stated you weren't interested in tournament play, the best thing to do would be to wait it out for the final ruleset to see what you want to assemble. If it's not important to you, continue building whatever units you want out of your codex. They won't be made illegal, they'll just probably weigh in differently when it comes to list building.

Yeah he is right... Choosing the GW Staple diet Army that is SM.... means the rules will do nothing but make you better in most situations.... Rules will change slightly and might make you rethink how a unit is used but overall you will be fine....

So buy to your hearts content.

No one really knows when 6th is really coming out. Might be in a month, might be in a year...or two. Probably somewhere in between. I'm betting on November.

Regardless, it will be here when it is and there's nothing really you can do about it one way or the other.

That said just ignore it (and the rumours) and go ahead with whatever your plans are. As others have said Marines aren't going to be radically redone. As the most popular items, GW has too much invested in them to screw everyone over.

Most likely we'll see a few new types of armor (they have to sell models), certainly a bit of stat adjustment, but nothing "ground shaking" that would force you to throw whatever you had bought away.

shamroll wrote:So I'm just starting out with Warhammer 40k. I'm building up my army but I haven't even played a real full game yet. I keep seeing posts about leaked 6th edition rules and that has brought up a few concerns for me. I use to play a lot of card games like Magic the Gathering and every new block usually meant changes and old cards no longer being allowed. I'm playing just vanilla SM and I'm not really concerned with tournament level play, I just want to make sure I'm playing the game correctly without blowing too much money.

Is it expected that some units will be cut from the rosters or no longer be allowed to take certain loadouts? If some units are cut, could I use the old ones as proxies for another unit? I'm still building my army so I don't want to have a bunch of my units no longer be allowed.
Are new units expected for each race?
Is there any idea of when the 6th edition will be released?
Will new Codexs (Codexies?, Codecies?) come out with the 6th edition rule book?
Also, is there a leaked rule changes for dummies because I don't understand half of what is said in the posts?

Thanks for helping me understand. Everyone has always been so helpful on this sight.

I have been playing since 3rd edition, and have seen the way GW operates. I will do my best to answer your questions.

"Is it expected that some units will be cut from the rosters or no longer be allowed to take certain loadouts? If some units are cut, could I use the old ones as proxies for another unit? I'm still building my army so I don't want to have a bunch of my units no longer be allowed."

I would count on it. The core rules changes, as well as the new wave of codexes will certainly obsolete certain units, and add new ones in. Specific wargear on specific units could very likely change. Counts As\Proxies are fine in most friendly games, but are not allowed in many "official GW tournaments (i.e. Ard Boyz).

"Is there any idea of when the 6th edition will be released? "

Lot's of speculation and rumors on this. It will almost certainly be sometime this year (2012).

"Will new Codexs (Codexies?, Codecies?) come out with the 6th edition rule book?"

I doubt they will release at the same time. There may be a release right before or right after, however.

"Also, is there a leaked rule changes for dummies because I don't understand half of what is said in the posts?"

I would suggest steering away from the leaked document. It is hard to say how much of it will actually be in the final rules.

One suggestion I like to give newer players is stick with 1 army. Resist the tempation to try to build multiple armies. 1 army will keep you plenty
busy, and when a new Codex rolls, you will always have new modeling & painting to keep you busy.

GW is a greedy, corporate monster, that only cares about profits and revenue growth. They pull all kinds of shenanigans like removing 50% of the models from
sets and charging the same price, constantly increasing prices, releasing power codexes so that folks will buy the new army, etc. They make a very nice product, but honestly,
it is way overpriced and aggressively marketed, and is only going to get worse. If you want to be in this hobby for the long term, you need to be able to beat them at their own game.

Models almost never become 'illegal'. It has happened (Necron Pariahs, for example are no longer even a unit anymore) however the beauty of 40k being in part a modelling hobby is that you can just use those models as stand-ins for a new unit as-is, or else you can just hack & slash them until they're more to your own vision of a different unit. (to continue with the previous example, Parihs make excellent Lychguard, Praetorians or Crypteks) However, even those older models are still 100% legal for tournament or any official games, as they are official GW miniatures. On a more personal note, I actually appreciate seeing armies that have converted older models into something unique, and I know I am not alone in that.

But I do understand your fear, so let me try to dispel it in the most efficient way possible:

Warhammer 40k is NOTHING like the M:tG Type II scene. GW already has enough ways of parting us with our money without needing to invalidate our models so that we have to update our army lists.


EDIT: as a further example, take a look at pictures of the old Rogue Trader-era Ork Trukks. They are still legal to use in tournaments, despite the fact that they do not resemble the 'new' Ork Trukks in any way.

azazel the cat wrote:Models almost never become 'illegal'. It has happened (Necron Pariahs, for example are no longer even a unit anymore) however the beauty of 40k being in part a modelling hobby is that you can just use those models as stand-ins for a new unit as-is, or else you can just hack & slash them until they're more to your own vision of a different unit. (to continue with the previous example, Parihs make excellent Lychguard, Praetorians or Crypteks) However, even those older models are still 100% legal for tournament or any official games, as they are official GW miniatures. On a more personal note, I actually appreciate seeing armies that have converted older models into something unique, and I know I am not alone in that.

But I do understand your fear, so let me try to dispel it in the most efficient way possible:

Warhammer 40k is NOTHING like the M:tG Type II scene. GW already has enough ways of parting us with our money without needing to invalidate our models so that we have to update our army lists.


EDIT: as a further example, take a look at pictures of the old Rogue Trader-era Ork Trukks. They are still legal to use in tournaments, despite the fact that they do not resemble the 'new' Ork Trukks in any way.

Not to be rude, but you are being very naïve about the situation. This isn't sound or realistic advice for a new player.

"However, even those older models are still 100% legal for tournament or any official games, as they are official GW miniatures."

This is true, IF those older models still have an entry in the new codex. And IF those older models are still worth fielding with the new profile provided in the Codex.
Additionally, it is likely you will need to rework wargear on existing models for official GW tournaments. A good example are melta guns in the current 5th edition meta game.
Everyone spams melta guns, but the meta my change so that plasma guns are the new flavour of the day in 6th edition. Power swords are another example; most folks take
power fists in the current meta game. That may change.

Never count on existing models being useful in the next codex. For example, the current Chaos Space Marine Codex has nerfed and\or remove the following models:

Raptors - Terrible. They took away "Hit and Run" and they are not scoring.
Chaos Dreadnaught. The rules are terrible. it is unplayable in a competitive game.
Chaos Possessed. Terrible rules. Unplayable in a competitive game.
Chaos Lords. Meh, inferior to a Daemon prince.
Chaos Sorcerers. Meh. Inferior to a Daemon prince. Some folks will argue you can hide them in a squad\rhino. I still say they are inferior.
Iron Warriors Basilisk. No longer in the Codex.
Chaos Cultists. No longer in the Codex.
Chaos Special Characters. Most of them are not worth fielding.

And these are just some of the biggest examples. I am sure there are more.

NoArmorSave wrote:

azazel the cat wrote:Models almost never become 'illegal'. It has happened (Necron Pariahs, for example are no longer even a unit anymore) however the beauty of 40k being in part a modelling hobby is that you can just use those models as stand-ins for a new unit as-is, or else you can just hack & slash them until they're more to your own vision of a different unit. (to continue with the previous example, Parihs make excellent Lychguard, Praetorians or Crypteks) However, even those older models are still 100% legal for tournament or any official games, as they are official GW miniatures. On a more personal note, I actually appreciate seeing armies that have converted older models into something unique, and I know I am not alone in that.

But I do understand your fear, so let me try to dispel it in the most efficient way possible:

Warhammer 40k is NOTHING like the M:tG Type II scene. GW already has enough ways of parting us with our money without needing to invalidate our models so that we have to update our army lists.


EDIT: as a further example, take a look at pictures of the old Rogue Trader-era Ork Trukks. They are still legal to use in tournaments, despite the fact that they do not resemble the 'new' Ork Trukks in any way.

Not to be rude, but you are being very naïve about the situation. This isn't sound or realistic advice for a new player.

"However, even those older models are still 100% legal for tournament or any official games, as they are official GW miniatures."

This is true, IF those older models still have an entry in the new codex. And IF those older models are still worth fielding with the new profile provided in the Codex.
Additionally, it is likely you will need to rework wargear on existing models for official GW tournaments. A good example are melta guns in the current 5th edition meta game.
Everyone spams melta guns, but the meta my change so that plasma guns are the new flavour of the day in 6th edition. Power swords are another example; most folks take
power fists in the current meta game. That may change.

Never count on existing models being useful in the next codex. For example, the current Chaos Space Marine Codex has nerfed and\or remove the following models:

Raptors - Terrible. They took away "Hit and Run" and they are not scoring.
Chaos Dreadnaught. The rules are terrible. it is unplayable in a competitive game.
Chaos Possessed. Terrible rules. Unplayable in a competitive game.
Chaos Lords. Meh, inferior to a Daemon prince.
Chaos Sorcerers. Meh. Inferior to a Daemon prince. Some folks will argue you can hide them in a squad\rhino. I still say they are inferior.
Iron Warriors Basilisk. No longer in the Codex.
Chaos Cultists. No longer in the Codex.
Chaos Special Characters. Most of them are not worth fielding.

And these are just some of the biggest examples. I am sure there are more.

You're not being rude, just oblivious. Next time please take my advice at face value. I'll correct your post so that it actually reflects what my very clear point was:

Raptors - Terrible. They took away "Hit and Run" and they are not scoring. However, it is perfectly legal to field them, even though they are not competitive.
Chaos Dreadnaught. The rules are terrible. it is unplayable in a competitive game. However, it is perfectly legal to field them, even though they are not competitive.
Chaos Possessed. Terrible rules. Unplayable in a competitive game. However, it is perfectly legal to field them, even though they are not competitive.
Chaos Lords. Meh, inferior to a Daemon prince. However, it is perfectly legal to field them, even though they are not competitive.
Chaos Sorcerers. Meh. Inferior to a Daemon prince. Some folks will argue you can hide them in a squad\rhino. I still say they are inferior.However, it is perfectly legal to field them, even though they are not competitive.
Iron Warriors Basilisk. No longer in the Codex. However, it is a perfectly fine 'counts-as' model, and still legal as it is a GW model.
Chaos Cultists. No longer in the Codex. However, it is a perfectly fine 'counts-as' model, and still legal as it is a GW model.
Chaos Special Characters. Most of them are not worth fielding. However, it is perfectly legal to field them, even though they are not competitive.

shamroll wrote:up a few concerns for me. I use to play a lot of card games like Magic the Gathering and every new block usually meant changes and old cards no longer being allowed. I'm playing just vanilla SM and I'm not really concerned with tournament level play, I just want to make sure I'm playing the game correctly without blowing too much money.

You see, this is the question that the OP asked, and I believe that I answered it correctly. He is a (former?) Magic: the Gathering player, like myself. And in M:tG the tournament scene looks like this: the core set + the most recent expansion 'block', typically only the most recent 3 sets. Generally it will take about 18 months for the entire expansion block to come out, before the next expansion block is produced. When that happens, most, if not all of the cards that were used for the previous expansion block are no longer tournament legal, meaning most players have to completely re-buy their cards in order to make new decks. Even at cards costing $4-6 per pack, and rares typically costing $5 each with the occasional $20 card, decks in the Type II tournament scene typically will run a player around $200-$300, most of which is not tournament legal six months later.

The OP mentioned nothing of wanting to play in a competitive tournament, which I believe is where you have erred, NoArmorSave. The OP is not concerned with 'what build will be the strongest in the meta', he is concerned with 'will I have to re-buy my models just to play'. And my answer is 'NO'. If the OP decides he wants Plasma rather than Meltaguns, that is his decision, but it's not a decision that is forced upon him. Additionally, he can always just magnetize these options, as per my comment about the modelling aspect of 40k.

However, what is most alarming about your advice is that you have seemingly ignored my point that even if the OP buys models that are not in the next codex, those models can just be used as either 'counts-as' modes for something that IS in the codex, or else can just convert the models into a customized version of something that is in the codex. Hence, my example of using Necron Pariahs as 'counts-as' models for Praetorians, or Lychguard, or Crypteks. In any case, doing so is perfectly legal, as the rule is that you must use GW miniatures, of which Pariahs will always be. You just can't call them 'Pariahs' anymore.

So please try to read questions & answers with more care when a player who is new to 40k is apprehensive of getting into a game for fear of wasting his money, a la Magic: the Gathing. There are many things that will preclude a player from starting Warhammer 40k, but being forced to re-buy one's army is not one of them.

azazel the cat wrote:

NoArmorSave wrote:

azazel the cat wrote:Models almost never become 'illegal'. It has happened (Necron Pariahs, for example are no longer even a unit anymore) however the beauty of 40k being in part a modelling hobby is that you can just use those models as stand-ins for a new unit as-is, or else you can just hack & slash them until they're more to your own vision of a different unit. (to continue with the previous example, Parihs make excellent Lychguard, Praetorians or Crypteks) However, even those older models are still 100% legal for tournament or any official games, as they are official GW miniatures. On a more personal note, I actually appreciate seeing armies that have converted older models into something unique, and I know I am not alone in that.

But I do understand your fear, so let me try to dispel it in the most efficient way possible:

Warhammer 40k is NOTHING like the M:tG Type II scene. GW already has enough ways of parting us with our money without needing to invalidate our models so that we have to update our army lists.


EDIT: as a further example, take a look at pictures of the old Rogue Trader-era Ork Trukks. They are still legal to use in tournaments, despite the fact that they do not resemble the 'new' Ork Trukks in any way.

Not to be rude, but you are being very naïve about the situation. This isn't sound or realistic advice for a new player.

"However, even those older models are still 100% legal for tournament or any official games, as they are official GW miniatures."

This is true, IF those older models still have an entry in the new codex. And IF those older models are still worth fielding with the new profile provided in the Codex.
Additionally, it is likely you will need to rework wargear on existing models for official GW tournaments. A good example are melta guns in the current 5th edition meta game.
Everyone spams melta guns, but the meta my change so that plasma guns are the new flavour of the day in 6th edition. Power swords are another example; most folks take
power fists in the current meta game. That may change.

Never count on existing models being useful in the next codex. For example, the current Chaos Space Marine Codex has nerfed and\or remove the following models:

Raptors - Terrible. They took away "Hit and Run" and they are not scoring.
Chaos Dreadnaught. The rules are terrible. it is unplayable in a competitive game.
Chaos Possessed. Terrible rules. Unplayable in a competitive game.
Chaos Lords. Meh, inferior to a Daemon prince.
Chaos Sorcerers. Meh. Inferior to a Daemon prince. Some folks will argue you can hide them in a squad\rhino. I still say they are inferior.
Iron Warriors Basilisk. No longer in the Codex.
Chaos Cultists. No longer in the Codex.
Chaos Special Characters. Most of them are not worth fielding.

And these are just some of the biggest examples. I am sure there are more.

You're not being rude, just oblivious. Next time please take my advice at face value. I'll correct your post so that it actually reflects what my very clear point was:

Raptors - Terrible. They took away "Hit and Run" and they are not scoring. However, it is perfectly legal to field them, even though they are not competitive.
Chaos Dreadnaught. The rules are terrible. it is unplayable in a competitive game. However, it is perfectly legal to field them, even though they are not competitive.
Chaos Possessed. Terrible rules. Unplayable in a competitive game. However, it is perfectly legal to field them, even though they are not competitive.
Chaos Lords. Meh, inferior to a Daemon prince. However, it is perfectly legal to field them, even though they are not competitive.
Chaos Sorcerers. Meh. Inferior to a Daemon prince. Some folks will argue you can hide them in a squad\rhino. I still say they are inferior.However, it is perfectly legal to field them, even though they are not competitive.
Iron Warriors Basilisk. No longer in the Codex. However, it is a perfectly fine 'counts-as' model, and still legal as it is a GW model.
Chaos Cultists. No longer in the Codex. However, it is a perfectly fine 'counts-as' model, and still legal as it is a GW model.
Chaos Special Characters. Most of them are not worth fielding. However, it is perfectly legal to field them, even though they are not competitive.

shamroll wrote:up a few concerns for me. I use to play a lot of card games like Magic the Gathering and every new block usually meant changes and old cards no longer being allowed. I'm playing just vanilla SM and I'm not really concerned with tournament level play, I just want to make sure I'm playing the game correctly without blowing too much money.

You see, this is the question that the OP asked, and I believe that I answered it correctly. He is a (former?) Magic: the Gathering player, like myself. And in M:tG the tournament scene looks like this: the core set + the most recent expansion 'block', typically only the most recent 3 sets. Generally it will take about 18 months for the entire expansion block to come out, before the next expansion block is produced. When that happens, most, if not all of the cards that were used for the previous expansion block are no longer tournament legal, meaning most players have to completely re-buy their cards in order to make new decks. Even at cards costing $4-6 per pack, and rares typically costing $5 each with the occasional $20 card, decks in the Type II tournament scene typically will run a player around $200-$300, most of which is not tournament legal six months later.

The OP mentioned nothing of wanting to play in a competitive tournament, which I believe is where you have erred, NoArmorSave. The OP is not concerned with 'what build will be the strongest in the meta', he is concerned with 'will I have to re-buy my models just to play'. And my answer is 'NO'. If the OP decides he wants Plasma rather than Meltaguns, that is his decision, but it's not a decision that is forced upon him. Additionally, he can always just magnetize these options, as per my comment about the modelling aspect of 40k.

However, what is most alarming about your advice is that you have seemingly ignored my point that even if the OP buys models that are not in the next codex, those models can just be used as either 'counts-as' modes for something that IS in the codex, or else can just convert the models into a customized version of something that is in the codex. Hence, my example of using Necron Pariahs as 'counts-as' models for Praetorians, or Lychguard, or Crypteks. In any case, doing so is perfectly legal, as the rule is that you must use GW miniatures, of which Pariahs will always be. You just can't call them 'Pariahs' anymore.

So please try to read questions & answers with more care when a player who is new to 40k is apprehensive of getting into a game for fear of wasting his money, a la Magic: the Gathing. There are many things that will preclude a player from starting Warhammer 40k, but being forced to re-buy one's army is not one of them.

I don't know man. I used to play MTG as well; I started in 1993. I have a fully powered cube (perfect replica proxies), and still enjoy playing it. I would think an MTG player would actually want to win games. When you design an MTG deck, do you put substandard cards in it?

Your point about using older models for "counts as" is only half true. You can only use them as "counts as" in non WYSIWYG enforced tournaments. Most official GW tournaments are WYSIWYG enforced, and many independant events are as well.

I think it is important that the OP understands that Warhammer 40,000 is not a "one time investment", if you want to play competitively against other players. When the codex for your army updates, there will most certainly be additional purchases involved. This can be mitigated somewhat
by sticking with 1 army.

Don't forget he was thinking of Space Marines. SM are not CSM. SM are the poster boys and have never lost a unit (3rd edition codex on), only gained stuff. And if they loose, say, Vanguard, he could play them as assault marines. I can think of 2 special charaters that don't have rules for them, Chaplain Xavier and Capt Cortez, BUT you can play them as Captians and chaplains still.

I have SM models dating back to RT and they are still legal to use in the codex and in tourneys (if GW actually bothered to run such here).

Marines with boltguns will ALWAYS be marines with Boltguns.
There will ALWAYS be an "Assault marine" with bp/ccw type (with or without jump pack).

In a previous codex, for example, Ultramarines could take Tyrannic war veterans with specialist ammo.
In the current codex, these TWV no longer exist, but "Sternguard veterans" who may be taken by ANY SM army using that codex (not just UM). UM TWV are just "sternguard" with different armour detail.

New (sometimes older) stuff will come in, previous versions might get rested for a time (Razorback weapon options - Multimelta, anyone - but the las-plas turret option came back from RT/2nd ed).

NoArmorSave wrote:I don't know man. I used to play MTG as well; I started in 1993. I have a fully powered cube (perfect replica proxies), and still enjoy playing it. I would think an MTG player would actually want to win games. When you design an MTG deck, do you put substandard cards in it?

My favourite deck is one I call "Deep Blue". It's a mono-blue deck, and it has a little over 250 cards in it. It has every wacky, strange blue & artifact rare from Mirage through to Urza's-something in it, and honestly has a few hundred ways that it can win. And it does win, a lot. But the deck is Type 1.5, and closer to Type 1 than it is to Type 2.

It cannot be strategized against; it can only be experienced.

And it is full of 'substandard' cards. Temporal Aperture, Urza's Armour, Thran Turbines, Serpent Generator... the list goes on. But the deck wins. And I mean, even against kill-you-in-four-turns decks.

Just like in Warhammer. You don't need the latest Net List to win with an army.

As for 6th ed in general, it's an inevitability. If it's anything like previous rules upgrades, it will curb the worst of the old edition, while streamlining everything, and probably adding a little new content. You'll have to make some small adjustments, but you certainly won't have to buy a new army, or necessarily play the one you have any differently.

As for the current 6th ed leak, it's bunk. If you don't understand it, don't worry. Just go back and read the introduction again, where they clearly state that you're going to have to have a copy of the actual rulebook in order to use what is clearly intended to be a supplement. In the meantime, it wouldn't be a bad idea to familiarize yourself with 5th ed rules at least a little bit, as the core units don't really change from edition to edition.

NoArmorSave wrote:I don't know man. I used to play MTG as well; I started in 1993. I have a fully powered cube (perfect replica proxies), and still enjoy playing it. I would think an MTG player would actually want to win games. When you design an MTG deck, do you put substandard cards in it?

You can't definitely answer that question, just like you can answer "Would you ever use Raptors?"
If you are playing in a tournament, you would probably do neither.
When playing casually with friends (i.e. "kitchen-table" magic) I would do either.

Type 2 tournaments are also not the norm. Legacy, Vintage and Extended decks tend to be viable much longer than six months, though you might have to adjust a little.

Your point about using older models for "counts as" is only half true. You can only use them as "counts as" in non WYSIWYG enforced tournaments. Most official GW tournaments are WYSIWYG enforced, and many independant events are as well.

WYSIWYG means all wargear and options are represented on the model. If your chosen ones are represented by cultists with the correct gear, no TO should even consider removing them (though we all know there will be that one TO who does).

I think it is important that the OP understands that Warhammer 40,000 is not a "one time investment", if you want to play competitively against other players. When the codex for your army updates, there will most certainly be additional purchases involved. This can be mitigated somewhat
by sticking with 1 army.

It's about as much of a one-time investment as Magic is. I own more than 75k magic cards and haven't bought any ever since picking up WH40k. But when going to my casual M:TG evening I can see the metagame changing, my decks not being as powerful as the used to be and me slowly getting bored without new ones to play. Do I need more cards? Probably not. I'm still going to buy some more cards in the future, just to have some new decks to play and improve old decks.
It's the same for WH40k. Even if you have a complete and perfectly working army, you are going to buy new models just to play something new, be it more of your army or even a second one. And once a new codex/ruleset comes out, your army will probably still be ok, but not as good as it used to be. Either you're ok with that (like I am with my current cards), or you change your army to meet the new metagame.

On the upside, owning as much as is useful of everything(while still extremely expensive) is far more realistic than owning all magic cards
You also don't need dozens of any given unit as it's not "in that other deck" and thus unavailable.

I hope you guys are right. I just started guard, and I don't want to get screwed.

Jidmah wrote: But when going to my casual M:TG evening I can see the metagame changing, my decks not being as powerful as the used to be and me slowly getting bored without new ones to play. Do I need more cards? Probably not. I'm still going to buy some more cards in the future, just to have some new decks to play and improve old decks.
It's the same for WH40k.

Actually, it's not.

Firstly, 40k is tied to a core rulebook. A plasma gun is a plasma gun is a plasma gun, it's just a matter of if you can field them or how many. Also, with a few exception, everything plays out in a similar way in the game, which I know isn't true of MTG, which has some really strange cards in it.

Secondly, codices are much better controlled than MTG. The imperial guard codex has had infantry platoons in it since the very beginning, and will continue to have them in some form in the future. Given that you have to take troops choices, and said troops choices stay more or less the same over time, you're looking at models you bought being included in every future edition of rules/codex. Plus, GW really does make an attempt to keep codecies balanced with each other, something which WtC seems to eschew on purpose. For example, it is still plenty possible to win games with a witch hunter's army, despite the fact that their codex is EIGHT years old. Are any of your cards from that long ago even remotely useful in a game of MTG (other than the land cards, of course)?

Things do wobble over time. Slight changes in rules and points costs in codices make things look more or less favorable over time, so you'll probably find yourself picking up new things as time progresses. This doesn't mean that stuff you bought in the past will ever be a straight-up waste of money.

azazel the cat wrote:Models almost never become 'illegal'. It has happened (Necron Pariahs, for example are no longer even a unit anymore) however the beauty of 40k being in part a modelling hobby is that you can just use those models as stand-ins for a new unit as-is, or else you can just hack & slash them until they're more to your own vision of a different unit. (to continue with the previous example, Parihs make excellent Lychguard, Praetorians or Crypteks) However, even those older models are still 100% legal for tournament or any official games, as they are official GW miniatures. On a more personal note, I actually appreciate seeing armies that have converted older models into something unique, and I know I am not alone in that.

But I do understand your fear, so let me try to dispel it in the most efficient way possible:

Warhammer 40k is NOTHING like the M:tG Type II scene. GW already has enough ways of parting us with our money without needing to invalidate our models so that we have to update our army lists.


EDIT: as a further example, take a look at pictures of the old Rogue Trader-era Ork Trukks. They are still legal to use in tournaments, despite the fact that they do not resemble the 'new' Ork Trukks in any way.

Yeah, pretty much this — it’s not like Standard II in MtG. By the way, do you know that there are lots of extensions to Magic games which allow you to play older sets? For example Extended.

Ailaros wrote:
As for the current 6th ed leak, it's bunk. If you don't understand it, don't worry. Just go back and read the introduction again, where they clearly state that you're going to have to have a copy of the actual rulebook in order to use what is clearly intended to be a supplement. In the meantime, it wouldn't be a bad idea to familiarize yourself with 5th ed rules at least a little bit, as the core units don't really change from edition to edition.

Don't want to go too much off topic, but how about YOU go back and read the introduction and then look at the page number. Normal books don't start at page 22, meaning there's something before the "leaked" rules if they're the real thing.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:YOU go back and read the introduction and then look at the page number. Normal books don't start at page 22, meaning there's something before the "leaked" rules if they're the real thing.

How does the page number effect the words themselves? Do you have any other odd reading superstitions like believing anything on an even page number is a lie and anything on an odd numbered page is the truth?

For all we know, there could be 22 pages of pictures, or it could be 22 pages of background and story, like you would expect in a supplemental.

Kodanshi wrote: By the way, do you know that there are lots of extensions to Magic games which allow you to play older sets? For example Extended.

That's why I specifically mentioned Type II, and the fact that the 'normal' scene revolves around it (at least it did back when I played, around the time when Tolarian Academy broke the game)

Ailaros wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:YOU go back and read the introduction and then look at the page number. Normal books don't start at page 22, meaning there's something before the "leaked" rules if they're the real thing.

How does the page number effect the words themselves? Do you have any other odd reading superstitions like believing anything on an even page number is a lie and anything on an odd numbered page is the truth?

For all we know, there could be 22 pages of pictures, or it could be 22 pages of background and story, like you would expect in a supplemental.

That one PDF wrote:For this reason it is no shame to come back to this book when you have some games with the introductory rules under your belt.

That one PDF wrote:You will discover that there are fewer explanations than in the introductory rules. If you are not sure how a rule works, you can go back to the basic rulebook at any time. The introductory rules stay valid to the point but all the rules that were marked as advanced rules are now directly incorporated into the rule text. The rules are compiled in a way that makes it easy to find a specific rule during a fervid game. Therefore the structure in which the rules are presented is a bit different from that of the basic rules.

That one PDF wrote:If you are a die-hard and want to learn the game with the complete rules, this is manageable, though a bit more demanding than with the basic rules.

Bolded the parts that point to the rules being the main rulebook as opposed to being a supplement. The text on the first 22 pages would presumably be the "introductory rules" refered to in the above quotes. How you get something like this to be an "obvious supplemental" is beyond me. That is not to say that it's impossible that it is a supplemental, but I personally don't see why you'd think it is. Could you explain please?