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So i was playing a friendly last night with my friend and there was an assult made where his wolf guard and wolf lord only just made it into cc wih my nobs squad. His only modelbin base contact was the wolf lord.

Now the rules state that ic are treated as a seperate unit in cc so were we right in not letting any other models in his squad do their attacks?

Cheers,

Stooge

When you piled in where you still not into BtB contact?

Yes, but it is after Defenders react 6" move. But I can see this would be possible with vehicles blocking the charging squad and the attacked squad.

There was a wrecked vehicle on one side and impassable terrain on the other. Cheers for the quick answers!

Actually unless I'm mistaken, the IC is still considered part of the squad when you determine who may attack. Meaning that any model within 2 inches of the wolf lord would have been able to make their full attacks. Page 49 of the BRB the second sentence of the second to last paragraph of the left column

When attacks are resolved, however, independent characters are always treated as a separate single-model unit (...) even though they have joined the unit.

Which means that when attacks are made the IC functions on his own, and must himself be in base. However other models in the unit can still use him to measure to for determining who is engaged.

Lone Dragoon wrote:Actually unless I'm mistaken, the IC is still considered part of the squad when you determine who may attack. Meaning that any model within 2 inches of the wolf lord would have been able to make their full attacks. Page 49 of the BRB the second sentence of the second to last paragraph of the left column

When attacks are resolved, however, independent characters are always treated as a separate single-model unit (...) even though they have joined the unit.

Which means that when attacks are made the IC functions on his own, and must himself be in base. However other models in the unit can still use him to measure to for determining who is engaged.

Wrong, they must be within 2" of a model in their unit. Since for combat the IC is a separate unit, they cannot measure to him.

When determining who can attack, isn't the IC still part of the unit?

If he were, there would be no requirement for the IC to be in b2b.

Happyjew wrote:If he were, there would be no requirement for the IC to be in b2b.

Except for the IC specific rules that require it.

Happyjew wrote:
Wrong, they must be within 2" of a model in their unit. Since for combat the IC is a separate unit, they cannot measure to him.

For resolving attacks the IC is a separate unit. However the independent character rules are what specifically state that to make attacks with him he must be in base contact which specifically prevents you from measuring from other models to see if it is engaged. However the reverse is not true, because it is part of the unit, until it makes its attacks (Remember determining who can strike is done before resolving the attacks) you still use the IC as part of the squad and any members within two inches of him may make their CC attacks.

..however, while technically true in RAW, it is *never* plated this way

Well it does say that an IC ALWAYS counts as a separate unit in CC. so thats how i think i'll be playing it from here on.

However, i seriously doubt this situation will come up very often anyway.

Thanks for all the discussion guys

nosferatu1001 wrote:..however, while technically true in RAW, it is *never* plated this way

don't say never, in the frozen northern reaches of the U.S. (Namely Wisconsin) that's actually how it's been played since the beginning of 5th ed (at least in my town )

Stooge wrote:Well it does say that an IC ALWAYS counts as a separate unit in CC. so thats how i think i'll be playing it from here on.

It only says for resolving attacks that he is a separate unit, for all other purposes in assault he's part of the squad. I.e. Leadership checks, Pile-in moves, Sweeping Advance, so on and so on.