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2012/01/20 21:19:19
Subject: 2k Space Wolf very competitive, please comment.
Well, I see some right use of the basic units but I don't consider "very competitive" some of your choices.
IE, at 2000 pts, Bjorn is a very valuable option for a nice gun-line but I can understand why and if you wouldn't use it,
Anyway, I advice you to do not give dedicated transports to Long Fangs, they will eventually (only in Dawn Of War deployments) use 3 of the troops razorbacks and really just for the necessary time, the time to take a right shooting position.
This will allow you to: 1) complete all the Long Fangs teams, 2) profit of the Fast Attack section of the army list that you're actually completely ignoring right now. Consider obviously Land Speeder Typhoons.
Consider this a good base, I actually do not use this ultra optimized list because I alwais prefer keep a little fluff in my games but as Reecius shown in many different ways (take a look at all his battle reports on this forum) it's a very valuable build.
I just let you make the "bullet count".
PS: the 3 Dozer Blades aren't an optional. Expecially in the worst situation (Dawn Of War) when you'll want to delivery the Long fangs on place as fast as possible, you'll certainly don't want these 3 Razorbacks immobilise themselves on terrains.
Hope this will help.
Every molecule will be useful
6000+ pts NIDS
() 2000 pts growing to 4000...
2012/01/20 23:26:24
Subject: 2k Space Wolf very competitive, please comment.
Toban wrote:Anyway, I advice you to do not give dedicated transports to Long Fangs, they will eventually (only in Dawn Of War deployments) use 3 of the troops razorbacks and really just for the necessary time, the time to take a right shooting position.
This is bad advice. In Dawn of War the Long Fangs start off the table. They can't start mounted in another units dedicated transport, they could only be in their own dedicated transport or a non-dedicated transport. You don't want to move the Grey Hunter transports barely onto the table, move the Long fangs onto the table and embark on the transport, then spend a whole other turn moving the transport and disembarking the Long Fangs. It would be Turn 3 before you could fire them and you wouldn't have moved very far.
Also its kind of missing the point as to why most people bring Razorbacks for Long Fangs. Dawn of War is just a bonus situation. Really, they are brought for a) armor saturation and b) to give you yet another shot at blowing up enemy armor on the cheap. This is partially why you see so many take Twin-Linked Lascannons on their Razorbacks. Las/Plas is favored on Blood Angels because their vehicles are Fast. Space Wolves, always short on Heavy Weapons, need reliable anti-tank at range so the TL Lascannon is more worthwhile.
That said, Tolban's other point was on the mark. Some of your choices aren't "competitive". By that we mean they are either circumstantially good or otherwise sub par to other choices in most situations. Case in point: The Combi-Flamers. Combi-Meltas, for the same price, are a better investment. Especially if you are in Rhinos/Razorbacks/Drop Pods.
6 Troop Choices is nice, but your Razorback units are fairly fragile. AV11 is easy enough to take care of (I do it all of the time with S7 weapons) and 5 marines in power armor (6 with the Wolf Guard) aren't going to survive long outside of it. But if you are careful you should be okay most of the time. Its just not the most competitive option you can take as a Space Wolf Player.
For example consider these Grey Hunter units:
Grey Hunter Pack - 200 Points
x4, x1 Meltagun, x1 Wolf Standard, x1 Power Weapon, x1 Mark of the Wulfen, x1 Rhino
The first unit is relatively cheap for a Space Marine unit. Most Blood Angel choices are 10 man strong and cost 30-35 points more for example. This one allows you to attach your Wolf Guard and store your Rune Priest, as you already know. But the extra combat power it has over your unit can really turn the tide. 3 Power Fist attacks, 3 Power Weapon attacks, D6+2 Rending Attacks, and the ability to re-roll all ones makes them incredibly painful to deal with in close combat. You also have enough ablative wounds to ensure those weapons get to be used usually.
The second unit is incredibly cheap and does the same job as the ones you are taking. Its a back line unit. They sit in their transport and it goes after enemy armor that is threatening the advancing Rhinos.
Now what about your Rune Priests. You have to A) give them different wargear from one another and B) choose different psychic powers for them, and at the time of army selection. I'd do the simple thing and give one a Chooser of the Slain. Both should have Living Lightning, but I'd give one Tempest's Wrath and one Storm Caller.
So the changes I'd make:
Spoiler:
Rune Priest (100pts)
x1 w/ LL, Storm Caller
Rune Priest (110pts)
x1 w/ Chooser of the Slain, LL, Tempest's Wrath
Wolf Guard (215pts)
x5 w/ Combi-Melta, Power Fist
Grey Hunter Pack (200pts)
x4, x1 Meltagun, x1 Wolf Standard, x1 Power Weapon, x1 Mark of the Wulfen, x1 Rhino
Grey Hunter Pack (200pts)
x4, x1 Meltagun, x1 Wolf Standard, x1 Power Weapon, x1 Mark of the Wulfen, x1 Rhino
Grey Hunter Pack (200pts)
x4, x1 Meltagun, x1 Wolf Standard, x1 Power Weapon, x1 Mark of the Wulfen, x1 Rhino
And it still has 55 points left over you can do something with. Fully mech'd up. It has redundancy for the Rune Priests so when their Rhino gets popped they can hop in another (and it will get popped. If you really miss the Long Fangs you can bring it back, but if you find yourself a pair of Land Speeder Tornadoes you don't really need them. They'll each pop a tank almost guaranteed and the Heavy Flamer will let them wreck most infantry.
I'd even consider dropping the Razorback Grey Hunter unit for a pack of Swiftclaws with Attack Bike (again with Multi-Melta) but others may not like that option. I find they are useful to give cover to your Rhinos and to tie up units in combat when your Grey Hunters disembark.
Ok looking at what you are going for I have a few little things to buff your units as I see it.
1stly your HQ choices are illegal, you need to have different wargear and psycic power selections between the two rune preists, if you take any advice from this post it would be to fix that 1st off.
When I look at the list I think you'll be using a support and shooting or 2 shooting psycic powers each turn with the priests, I'd suggest dropping 1 long fang and putting his points into 2 choosers of the slain and a wolf tail talisman to make one character unique. For their powers living lightening/jotww for one and maybe living lightening/stormcaller for the other. Living lightening will help with transports and monsterous creatures, jaws is for the noble art of character snipeing and stormcaller to give a 6" bubble around your transport for cover saves while in the open.
Yes you drop 1 missile but you gain 1 if not 2 d6 of s7 shots with unlimited range hitting on 2's, I think it's worth it.
With your wolf guard, I assume you want combi flamer on the wg models that are in the large squads because they are going to be going in for the assualt and you want to burn the enemy on the way in. If so that's cool for those 2, your mileage may vary against better armoured foes but I see what you are going for, something to cut into the hordes out there.
For the other 4, I don't see them as being part of charge and assault units, basicly I would take combi-plasma (cowmanaut is spinning on his chair), if their lazback gets totaled then leave them in the crater or the nearest cover and shoot out from it, the squads are small enough that you can't rely on them surviving cc so don't even try to use them that way. Focus on using them as a fire squad.
The twin linked assault cannon is ok, should wipe out light troops and you have the lazbacks for the heavy armour with 14 missiles a turn for transports and horde killing.
Keep the twin lazbacks on the long fangs, I have no idea what benefit you mean Toban, when you say:
toban wrote:Anyway, I advice you to do not give dedicated transports to Long Fangs, they will eventually (only in Dawn Of War deployments) use 3 of the troops razorbacks and really just for the necessary time, the time to take a right shooting position.
Unless the long fangs are deployed in a transport then there is no point embarking them in turn 1, the only way to deploy a squad in a dedicated transport is to be the squad that bought it. The only way this works is if you have dumped 3 weak squads out to floot slog, not too great. Even if you run that way you don't get to use the missiles until turn 3, that is some waste.
If they have their own transport they can come on either A) enter on foot and run leaving their razorback free to move on 6 inches and then fire or B) move in their transport for 12 and then dismount and run, the transport can pop smoke and then in either case it's turn 2 and time to shine.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/01/20 23:48:07
It's not the size of the blade, it's how you use it.
2000+ 1500+ 2000+
Well, I see some right use of the basic units but I don't consider "very competitive" some of your choices.
IE, at 2000 pts, Bjorn is a very valuable option for a nice gun-line but I can understand why and if you wouldn't use it,
Anyway, I advice you to do not give dedicated transports to Long Fangs, they will eventually (only in Dawn Of War deployments) use 3 of the troops razorbacks and really just for the necessary time, the time to take a right shooting position.
This will allow you to: 1) complete all the Long Fangs teams, 2) profit of the Fast Attack section of the army list that you're actually completely ignoring right now. Consider obviously Land Speeder Typhoons.
Consider this a good base, I actually do not use this ultra optimized list because I alwais prefer keep a little fluff in my games but as Reecius shown in many different ways (take a look at all his battle reports on this forum) it's a very valuable build.
I just let you make the "bullet count".
PS: the 3 Dozer Blades aren't an optional. Expecially in the worst situation (Dawn Of War) when you'll want to delivery the Long fangs on place as fast as possible, you'll certainly don't want these 3 Razorbacks immobilise themselves on terrains.
Hope this will help.
I can see why you posted his list, but I am going for a different army play style than his. he uses his overwhelming fire power and the ability to counter assault with the dread to finnish off units.
Also Long fangs can't deploy in my other troops transport like the others have said.
I will edit my list a bit and see what everyone else thinks.
Automatically Appended Next Post: HQ - Rune Priest - Jotww - living lighting - wolf tail talisman. 105 pts
HQ - Rune Priest - Jotww - living lighting. 100 pts
EL - 3x Wolf Guard - 2x power fist - 2x Flamer - TL Lascannon Razorback. 179 pts
TR - 7x Grey Hunters - Meltagun - Wolf Standard - Power Weapon - Mark of the Wulfen - Rhino. 185 pts
TR - 7x Grey Hunters - Meltagun - Wolf Standard - Power Weapon - Mark of the Wulfen - Rhino. 185pts
TR - 5x Grey Hunters - Melta - TL Assualt cannon Razorback. 155 pts
TR - 5x Grey Hunters - Melta - TL Assualt cannon Razorback. 155 pts
TR - 5x Grey Hunters - Melta - TL Assualt cannon Razorback. 155 pts
FA - Land Speeder - Multimelta - Heavy Flamer. 70 pts
FA - Land Speeder - Multimelta - Heavy Flamer. 70 pts
FA - Land Speeder - Multimelta - Heavy Flamer. 70 pts
HS - 5x Long Fangs - 4x Missile Launchers - TL Lascannon Razorback. 190pts
HS - 5x Long Fangs - 4x Missile Launchers - TL Lascannon Razorback. 190pts
HS - 5x Long Fangs - 4x Missile Launchers - TL Lascannon Razorback. 190pts
TOTAL 1999 pts
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/01/21 16:52:41
6000+ pts NIDS
(
) 2000 pts growing to 4000... 
