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So I was doing a little strategizing in the wee hours, and I had a couple of thoughts...

With my army in the works, and thankfully not too much money sunk in so far, I was struck by that wretched "what IF I did this instead?" syndrome.
My army as it stands is to be a Vulkan-counts-as, with the list attached attached to this post. The idea is to build an excommunicated deathwatch army/strikeforce with the tacticals painted up as DW.
Tactics:
Vulkan+TH/SS+LR deathstar to... deathstar. Tacticals/LST/Vindi's to form two flanks, or one strong flank. And Rifleman Dreads to pop transports all day. Im envisioning a moving gun line here, if you get the picture.

But as time passes Im really digging the idea of a mechanized Pedro/Sternguard spam, with the Sternguard in rhinos as more seasoned DW, and tacticals... also in rhinos as new initiates. Scoring sternguard as DW? I just like that sh*t.

And so I'm wondering (randomly): After considering Kantor's buffs, whats the viability of sticking him with some assault terminators (TH/SS and/or DLC) and mounting them up in a Land Raider? Is there some synergy there that I'm missing besides the +1 attack? Or would it make more sense to go 3X 10-man sternguard as very capable scoring MEQ?

Any thoughts on Vulkan with sternguard in rhinos? Either way I know I have to face dropping my rifleman dreads and look elsewhere for long range light armor popping.

Anyways, don't break a sweat responding, I'm just hoping for a little "what would you do, and why?"

As always, thanks Dakkites!

Eric Hoerger's excellent army I faced at the Conflict GT recently used Pedro in a LR with assault terminators as his deathstar, and two min-sized units of SG equipped with pairs of lascannons as fire support. The SG provided both backfield scoring and good shooting.

I could see vulkan + pedro working.

2 units of scoring sternguard loaded with combi meltas, mm, and combi flamers.

TH/SS termies with mc weapons and 3 base attacks.

The only downside I see is there is no hq slot left for a libby.

I think I like the backfield SG better than spending all the points on the aggressive big squads of SG. The aggressive squads mean throwing scoring units into the teeth of your opponent's army.

schadenfreude wrote:I could see vulkan + pedro working.

2 units of scoring sternguard loaded with combi meltas, mm, and combi flamers.

TH/SS termies with mc weapons and 3 base attacks.

The only downside I see is there is no hq slot left for a libby.

That was my first thought, seemed a combo bred for devastation of the grimdark variety. But Vulkan+Pedro=Y?

Cause in the case of the whole: "if using 2 independent characters, you must choose which version of the (altered chapter tactics) will apply"... You're saying use Pedro's chapter tactics: scoring sternguard, and whatever the other rule is, and just carry Vulkan along for fun? Based on my understanding, you can't do the Vulkan-ized TL MM or HF and have scoring sternguard through Pedro. So I get the rationalle for Pedro or Vulkan, but is there a real purpose to both?

ARKTOR.RECLAIMUS wrote:

schadenfreude wrote:I could see vulkan + pedro working.

2 units of scoring sternguard loaded with combi meltas, mm, and combi flamers.

TH/SS termies with mc weapons and 3 base attacks.

The only downside I see is there is no hq slot left for a libby.

That was my first thought, seemed a combo bred for devastation of the grimdark variety. But Vulkan+Pedro=Y?

Cause in the case of the whole: "if using 2 independent characters, you must choose which version of the (altered chapter tactics) will apply"... You're saying use Pedro's chapter tactics: scoring sternguard, and whatever the other rule is, and just carry Vulkan along for fun? Based on my understanding, you can't do the Vulkan-ized TL MM or HF and have scoring sternguard through Pedro. So I get the rationalle for Pedro or Vulkan, but is there a real purpose to both?

Scoring sternguard is not a chapter tactic, so you get both. Pedro's CT is stubborn I believe

Mannahnin wrote:I think I like the backfield SG better than spending all the points on the aggressive big squads of SG. The aggressive squads mean throwing scoring units into the teeth of your opponent's army.

No doubt! And they are obviously more costly than regular tactial marines, but youre always going to have to throw something into the enemy's face, and if it's a couple of tactical squads supplemented by a pair of LS Typhoons and 2 Vindis with 3 sternguard close in the rear... I suspect that maaaay bring enough to the table in terms of versatility and killy-ness to deal with most opponents, if they come in hard and fast, no?

Sounds like a lot of points, added to a LR full of terminators.

Illumini wrote: Scoring sternguard is not a chapter tactic, so you get both. Pedro's CT is stubborn I believe

Is there an FAQ or something somewhere that outlines the rules for this, cause I looked for myself, and all i found was page after page of RAW vs. RAI debates. I'm sold if it can be prooved..er...proven.... if you can show me somewhere.

Pedro's chapter tactics is the trade off for stubborn. His +1 attack bubble and scoring sternguard are 2 totally separate special abilities that have nothing to do with his chapter tactics trade off of stubborn for combat tactics.

Chapter tactics=stubborn

Hold the line special ability=scoring sternguard.

Inspiring presence special ability= +1 attack bubble

One lot of Chapter tactics apply, you choose. It says that by every entry. But then pedro is under a different entry- we have a winner!
Wow, I would really allow this. This is kinda great, I think I would go without the assault termies though, despite +1A is awesome. I mean scoring, MC sternguard, why look else where?

I never knew this, you learn something every day. I wish today's info. would be useful but hey at least it is something.

Ok, the following seems pretty good for 2000 using my pedro rules of abusing scoring sternguard.

HQ 365 of awesomeness

225 6 4 combimelta, 2 heavy flamer, rhino
205 6 2 combiflamer, 2 melta, rhino
205 6 2 combiflamer, 2 melta, rhino

200 Telion, ML
90 snipers, cloaks

120 pred
120 pred
120 pred

140 2HF/MM
140 2HF/MM
70 HF/MM

Then 2000ish with Vulkan list. Running 3 rhinos is needed with the raider, then you need some long range threat is usually my mind set.
HQ 365 of awesomeness

225 6 4 combimelta, 2 heavy flamer, rhino
205 6 2 combiflamer, 2 melta, rhino
460 assault termies, MM, EA

220 melta, combimelta, MM, fist, rhino
90 snipers, cloaks

120 pred
120 pred
120 pred

70 HF/MM
70 HF/MM
70 HF/MM

Sorry I didn't know how to open your file. Maybe your list is the same

Are you guys reading the same ruleboom as I am? Hold the line is part of Pedros Chapter Tactics. Thats quite clear if you read the whole "Chapter Tactics" subchapter.

tedurur wrote:Are you guys reading the same ruleboom as I am? Hold the line is part of Pedros Chapter Tactics. Thats quite clear if you read the whole "Chapter Tactics" subchapter.

Re-read it now. You are right

tedurur wrote:Are you guys reading the same ruleboom as I am? Hold the line is part of Pedros Chapter Tactics. Thats quite clear if you read the whole "Chapter Tactics" subchapter.

Yeah, I've gotta QFT this. The language of his Chapter Tactics explicitly states that the army replaces Combat Tactics with Stubborn and that Sternguard gain the "Hold the Line!" special rule. That special rule has its own entry, but it's clearly governed by the language in Pedro's Chapter Tactics ability.

Illumini wrote:

ARKTOR.RECLAIMUS wrote:

schadenfreude wrote:I could see vulkan + pedro working.

2 units of scoring sternguard loaded with combi meltas, mm, and combi flamers.

TH/SS termies with mc weapons and 3 base attacks.

The only downside I see is there is no hq slot left for a libby.

That was my first thought, seemed a combo bred for devastation of the grimdark variety. But Vulkan+Pedro=Y?

Cause in the case of the whole: "if using 2 independent characters, you must choose which version of the (altered chapter tactics) will apply"... You're saying use Pedro's chapter tactics: scoring sternguard, and whatever the other rule is, and just carry Vulkan along for fun? Based on my understanding, you can't do the Vulkan-ized TL MM or HF and have scoring sternguard through Pedro. So I get the rationalle for Pedro or Vulkan, but is there a real purpose to both?

Scoring sternguard is not a chapter tactic, so you get both. Pedro's CT is stubborn I believe

What he means to do I think is run vulkan's CT and just run pedro for the +1 attack aura bubble.

OR, take both, and then depending on the game variables, choose which you want.

Anyone heard about if this works yet?
I've been curious myself! Dropping TL combi melta scoring vets sounds really exciting to me!

It is so badly written. Not as bad the huge ambiguities in the Necron codex.

I think there are better special HQs to take if you are going to double up, if hold the line isn't there. Khan for example seems quite hard if you take away outflank or shrike might be interesting.