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Hey Dakka!

I've been reading the "trying to understand the land raider" thread for a couple of days now, and find myself on the 'land raiders are great' side of the fence.
With this in mind i made the following list to try and utilize a sort of Rolling Thunder list, with the raiders moving forwards, firing if possible every turn, and finally having my units charge out to slay in the name of the God Emperor.
The reason that i chose BTs to formulate this list is because they are able to use land raider crusaders as dedicated transports for their troops, freeing up my heavy support slots for units that will support the advancing heavy tanks.
Some things to keep in mind as far as suggestions go:
I want the raiders, so telling me not to use them isnt gonna be helpful.
I am open to discussing the actual number of raiders in the list, but i'd like more than 3.
Most of what I am seeking is advice on how to fill the raider's cargo holds, and what units should be taken to support them.

Anyways, here's the list.

3,000 points Black Templars "Rolling Thunder"

HQ

Emperors Champion 140 points

Accept any Challenge

Elites

2 Squads of 5 Lightening claw Terminators 483 each (one can be hammers if that'd be more useful)

Furious Charge

Crusaders for each squad.

Tanks have smoke

Troops

3x squads of 10 Chainsword Initiates 454 each
Meltafun
Powerfist
Land raider Crusaders for each squad
Smoke Launchers
Searchlights

Heavy Support

2x Vindicators 133 each
Smoke Launchers
Extra Armor

Fast Attack

3x Land Speeder Typhoons 85 points each
Multimeltas

Sorry this is so brief but i'm in a real hurry!

Please comment! I've never played this army before so if i made any very stupid choices please feel free to enlighten me (only if it's not related to the land raiders though )
Final request....How would you scale this down to 2k? i'd like to start smaller and work my way up.

Thanks

Hey Ferrum,
First of all welcome to BT! LR are extremely good but with the high point costs people generaly stay away from them. But if you have decided that they are how you want to make a list then i think i can help. I myself have 8 LRC/LR/LRR i magnatize the turrets and ebayed the pieces i needed in total cost about ~500 i hope you realize the price ur gonna have to pay for a list like this but if you already do the hellz yea . Now i dont mean to sound like a dick but your list has no threat to me, its not using the BT advantages to its fullest so lets see if we can redo ur list a bit


EC ACC 140
Assault Terminator Squad x 5, 4 LC, 1 TH/SS LRC 480
Assault Terminator Squad x 5, 4 LC, 1 TH/SS LRC 480
Crusader Squad x 8, PF, Melta Gun, LRC 418
Crusader Squad x 8, PF, Melta Gun, LRC 418
Crusader Squad x 8, PF, Melta Gun, Rhino 203
Crusader Squad x 7, PF, Melta Gun, Rhino 187 < EC goes in here
Landspeeder Typhoon 70
Landspeeder Typhoon 70
Landspeeder Typhoon 70
Vindicator PotMS EA 153
Vindicator PotMS EA 153
Vindicator PotMS EA 153

2995 pts

Basically its the same list you had but i trimmed the fat and added a few sides . You still have 4 LRC and there is more of a pressing isssue of everything moving down the field. You still have the same amount of troops but you have more special weapons (PF and Melta Guns) TBH unless you want a straight LR spam there is no need for more than 4 unless your enemy has a reali good shooting phase. Bettween your 4 LRC, 3 Vindicators that can move 12in and still shoot the cannon and 3 indepenedent Landspeeder typhoons flying around poping tanks or contesting objectives your enemy will have alot to shoot at. I would suggest with a list like this you bubble wrap you rhinos in the LRC or depending if you get first turn you can use thing to block LOS on ur vindicators. For a 2k LR/LRC spam i run something like this again just for fun

EC AtWKtW 110
Crusader Squad x 5 LRC 345
Crusader Squad x 5 LRC 345
Crusader Squad x 5 LRC 345
Crusader Squad x 5 LR , EA 335
Crusader Squad x 5 LR, EA 335
Techmarine , Servo Harness, SS, 3 TechServers LRC 430
LR, EA 255

Note for this list i deploy the Tech out of the LRC and embark him in the LR first turn for obvious reasons

Theres nothing more fun to do to ur opponent than pull out 7 LR/LRC in a 2k list. I actualy dont get to play it to much because people will stay they dont wanna play bc they cant destroy them all so i pull out my terminator TH/SS list and they get equally mad but its a game.

Thanks for the reply!

I see the benefits of the changes that you made, especially with the third vindicator and it's power of the machine spirit! Those will kick butt! When I first looked at it I wasn't sure I like the fewer land raiders, but the rhinos add additional versatility to the list, as they can dash out from behind the raider wall and strike at flanks.

At 2K would it be more useful to swap the empty raider to acquire three land speeders? But I suppose with those tech marine shenanigans it'd be better to keep the LC LR!

Also, why no multi-meltas on the speeders?
And just to make sure does everything have smoke?

Apart from that I love it! And I plan on using eBay EXTENSIVELY!

I'm also going to use Teutonic knight head swaps for some of my marines, it should be cool!

Thanks for your help

MY 2k army list is just based on how many LR/LRC i can get 4 LRC 3 LR.

You could always swap out two squads that are riding in the LR's and drop the servers for Three Land speeders. The reason i don't is for 2/3 of all games played is objective based if i have 5 mobile bunkers driving around the field that count as scoring units (the troop bound LR/LRC) you have to focus your fire on that particular vehicle and passengers (going to ground in the blown up wreck = 3 cover save if need b. If i swapped them out for Land speeders theres less of a scoring threat and more of a target priority. I never take MM on my typhoons because im never going to b in range or the 12 in to use its ability. they are strictly for flying around in the back field shooting their rockets at either hordes or mech. then at the last minute turbo boosting to contest objectives. If you are trying to make a bad ass 2k LR/LRC list b mind full people that play these lists are some times shunned because its a powerful list. its sorta like spamming 30 TH/SS Terminators and running them up the field with a Marshall w/ TA, Adamantie cloak, LC SS (very hard to kill). with a sh--it load of fire power in the back field. yea the terminators will die eventually but you shoot at them to much they will righteous charge and get in range of an assault soon enough.

You dont have enough points for smoke but if you want it drop another Iniate from the other Rhino and get smoke for all the vehicles. if you do get these models i suggest researching how to magnatize ur army it will save you alot of money and time painting. i have 30 terminators with 30 pairs of LC, TH/SS, PF/SB, and 10 models w/ a magnet on the top so i can use CML. in all spent maybe 200-300 on it when actually its 500-600 You tube is your friend.

GL any more questions let me know im sure some troll will tell you that this list isnt that good and you can spend the points on LR/LRC on something else thats better. but dont forget whos army it is

Thanks again for the awesome replies! It's good to get well thought put feed back that is constructive

A couple more quick questions here...i just got the codex from a friend's house this afternoon and have been looking through it since then.

In order to lessen the likelyhood of an opponent having a fit as I deploy my army, I was considering shelling out the points to pay for some sword brethren in the 2K list, not termie ones just power armored ones. My ideas for this are:
A. It means there will be one less LRC running around due to the increased cost of the unit. (they will jump into the raider the Techie abandons)
B. They should hit like a ton of bricks.
C. They look awesome (the crapcast models), and if I don't buy them (the crapcast) I should easily be able to kit bash some sweet looking dudes.
E. Less moaning about the list being cheesy because it's got less land raiders.
D. They will draw more fire, whislt being a bit tougher because I can give them terminator honors with the points saved and give them a SS as well, with a total of 78 points remaining from those originally spend on the crusader squad in landraider.

Are these guys gonna be worth it?
The other thing is that I'm just not sure that a 'pure' LR spam list would be all that fun to play at 2K because there's nothing all that awesome actually in the tanks!

So I'm thinking...
EC- Accept Any Challenge - 140 points
Techmarine, harness, SS, 3x tech servitors, LRC, light, smoke - 434
6 sword brethren, Furious Charge, Terminator honors (all), SS, PF. - 199 points (they'll hop into the techmarine's LRC)
8 Crusaders, PF, Melta, LRC, light, smoke - 421 points
7 Crusaders PF, Melta, LRC, light, smoke -406 (EC in here)
Land Raider, EA, smoke, light - 259 points
Land Speeder Typhoon - 70 points
Land Speeder Typhoon - 70 points

That's 2000 points on the dot!
The Brethren unit will be throwing out a whopping 4 attacks each on the charge at S5, the PF will be S10, and I'll be hitting before marines. This I and S boost makes me think i should give them a power weapon....good idea??
I'd feel much more comfortable running this list because it feels a bit more flexible to me as far as what sorts of units i can handle, the speeders add a nice harassment element to the normally inexorable advance, and the brethren although costly should tear through all but the mightiest foes!
Plus a BS 5 land raider is nuts! (the siginum works with the LR right?)

What do you think?

For Sword Brothern its a point sink TBH. You are paying to get the same amount of attacks terminators get. Dont get me wrong i have 30 sweet looking Sword brothern i made but i never use em i usualy will use em for my crusaders. For 200 points you can get an assault terminator squad give 3 LC and 2 SS/TH thats 12 power weapon attacks on charge that reroll to hit and wound and 6 TH attacks reroll to hit and 2+ to wound. you will probli wipe a squad or serverly cripple them. Not to mention they get and invo save too. Also note when you get the bonus for Furious charge it makes you STR 9 not 10 the power fist doubles basic STR not modified. I cant say i wouldnt try out the Sword Brothern i did but what i came to like more was the terminators, i stopped using the sword brothern when in 3 games in a row they got wiped by a furious dread with blood claws or what ever they are called from the Blood Angels. ever since then my terminator even walking them up the field they draw alot of fire.

That makes a lot of sense actually. It's unfortunate that they are so close in terms of price to each other, because as you've said for the same cost you get a lot more oomph.

The only big thing is that sword brethren (not termies) get the special rule for free, while the terminators must pay extra for it. But that's not really an issue when you're re-rolling hits and wounds anyways due to the lightening claws and the vow.

I'm also curious as the effect of the tech marine on the effectiveness of the Lascannon land raider, sure he can repair it and any others that are damaged, but I'm confused as to how the siginum works with the raider (if it does at all). He's just a lot of points for someone who can repair, although he is a beast in combat as well with all those power fist attacks and the SS.

I'm really looking forward to using this army, and I think I'll try and get some play test games in if possible.

Thanks!

I would go with the Assault Termies as 3 TH/SS 2 LC or vice versa. The techmarine and the Sword brethren take away from more assault termies in LRCs and aren't really worth it IMHO. I may use sword brethren to infiltrate a heavy weapon for fun, but I don't think they are worth it IMHO. Another thing is that at this high of points level you really miss out on not having a Marshal for the army-wide LD10. I suggest lightning claws, a storm shield or a 2nd claw, Adamantine mantle (Remember, does not give eternal warrior :( ) Termie Honors, Frags, and Artificer Armor.

At 3k you definitely want 3 vindicators with PotMS and EA and a squadron of typhoons. At 2k I would keep two vindicators with the same equipment and possibly ditch the typhoons. As far as the LRCs, I like the idea and think you should stick with it. Don't forget to pay the 25 points for blessed hull either otherwise Zoanthropes will eat the LRCs for breakfast.

Have fun, charge the enemy, and read the FAQ if you haven't already.

BH is 50 points and a major point sink unless you have a heavy population of De or Nids.

If you take a high marshall make it term armour, LC, SS, Adam cloak should b 185 points i cant remember off my head. I only use techmarines to b a in games and i dont the signum i never understood so i just wrote it off. And for terminators you dont need the furious charge with claws and TH ur probli hit 75% of the time.

I don't have much to contribute to the actual list, but if I ever looked across the board and 4 Land Raiders AND 3 Vindicators.... well.... yeah, that's absolutely terrifying.

Looks like a real fun list.

I agree with the sword brethren comments, they do seem costly especially compared to terminators who are simply more survivable. At 2k I think I'll swap them for some terminators, but I will for sure keep the tech marine now that I've read the FAQ, 2 BS 5 twin-linked lascannons sounds epic! He can also now repair from within the vehicle, which is also incredibly good! I'd like to find points for the vindicators in 2K, but they are exorbitantly expensive, and typhoons do a similar thing, two of them throw down 4 krak or frag shots a turn, are highly mobile, and can deep strike so I can get hits on rear armor of dangerous targets such as vindicators, LRBTs, and they can put out enough shots to reliably put down transports, allowing my raiders to gun down the occupants in a hail of doom!

At 3K the vindicators are a must take, as is the Marshall, but I just don't see the points for either unless I neuter the other units by dropping lots of bodies.

On the note of furious charge: I think it makes them absolutely brutal, especially since I WILL be getting the charge when they're inside a land raider, it'll let them absolutely dominate other MEQ combat elites due to hitting on 3's, wounding on 3's, no saves, rerolling hits and wounds (due to the preferred enemy from the EC). Too good to pass up IMO

Thanks for the replies everyone! I appreciate the help

HQ
HQ - Emperor's champion - Accept. 140
HQ - Marshall w/ SS, LC, Terminator armour, Adamantite Cloak 180
HQ - Marshall w/ SS, LC, Terminator armour 145

Elites
EL - 7x terminators, 3 LC, 4 TH/SS, LRC 545
EL - 7x terminators, 3 LC, 4 TH/SS, LRC 585
EL - Venerable dread LC, ML, TH, EA 170

Troops
Tr - Crusader Squad x 7, PF, Melta Gun, Rhino 187
Tr - Crusader Squad x 8, PF, Melta Gun, Rhino 203
Tr - Crusader Squad x 8, PF, Melta Gun, Rhino 203


Fast Attack
FA - Land Speeder, Typhoon Missile Launchers 70
FA - Land Speeder, Typhoon Missile Launchers 70
FA - Land Speeder, Typhoon Missile Launchers 70

Heavy Support
HS – Vindicator, PotMS, EA 155
HS – Vindicator, PotMS, EA 155
HS – Vindicator, PotMS, EA 155


Maybe a suggestion for what you said above... I know its lacking the LRC/LR but i think it would b fun to play. GL!!