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what other hobby/game shop miniatures would you like to see lined up with GW products.

Kistlev is nice.

Infinity, Flames of War, Warmahordes, Malifaux... I would see if you could poll locals to see how interested they would be in a new store and maybe figure out a way for them to inform you what they'd like to see.

Even if you 'just did' GW products, I highly suggest making some sort of advertisemet that draws players to your store over going somewhere else. At least create something that will allow potential customers to know you are out there. Maybe an opening month or three where you run several tournament events for various game systems.

I've seen a few successful stores also carry comics, collectible card games (even baseball cards), books (not just roleplaying books), angry bird crap, etc. So if you are thinking of opening an actual physical location, I would take these things into consideration. People who come in for one thing might also end up being drawn to another thing (your more expensive to own GW products, for instance). Also, be sure you are knowledgable about whatever products you sell. If you can't make it look like you absolutely love <put game stuff here>, then appear as if you are the leading authority on it. The all knowing wizard, so to speak.

Sorry, I know this was more information than you wanted, but I've always wanted to run a store myself.

Its mainly going to be online, but as it takes of i will look into a store, and there are a few hobbyests around here just a bit of distance to our local gw, plus our local gw is tiny.

at least you have a gw within 150 miles...

Lar'shi wrote:what other hobby/game shop miniatures would you like to see lined up with GW products.

If it's an online store, then you don't care about the locals, and you're selling to the world. You're competing with all the other online sellers, so you'll be carrying pretty much the same thing. Your research should be done into what you see other online sellers carrying and promoting. You need to find some way to promote yourself. If you're selling the same product, why bother getting from you vs. Maelstorm/Wayland/Warstore? Is your price better, service better? Quicker shipping?

Obviously you need to carry the best sellers. So line up distributors for those. Your budget, space, workforce, and other restraints will dictate a lot about your business.


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Lar'shi wrote:Its mainly going to be online, but as it takes of i will look into a store, and there are a few hobbyests around here just a bit of distance to our local gw, plus our local gw is tiny.

Tiny GW store is bigger than the largest online store.)

To compete with a GW, carry what they don't and give people a place to play with lots of elbow room and good AC.

Where are you based? Or more to the point, where are you planning to be based? Before giving any word I want to know your close by competitors.

You have to remember that low prices aren't everything. I mean look at Wayland. They have dirt cheap postage as well as slightly lower prices to GW. Probably the most budget cut com competitor out there is Darksphere, though they have priced themselves out of it with postage making them only really worth it with large orders. Overall Wayland is a model. Or the likes of Maelstrom, as they have the largest range of products out of it.

zilegil wrote:Where are you based? Or more to the point, where are you planning to be based? Before giving any word I want to know your close by competitors.

You have to remember that low prices aren't everything. I mean look at Wayland. They have dirt cheap postage as well as slightly lower prices to GW. Probably the most budget cut com competitor out there is Darksphere, though they have priced themselves out of it with postage making them only really worth it with large orders. Overall Wayland is a model. Or the likes of Maelstrom, as they have the largest range of products out of it.

Actually they haven't. Even when Maelstrom have 17% off, unless your ordering one or two things, Darksphere is cheaper. ACtually just compared, a tactical squad and rhino is just under £3 more expensive with maelstrom.


You pretty much need a proper store to sell GW stuff don't you? I don't think they allow people just to sell their products online without a proper brick and mortar shop.
Having the gaming facilities is going to make you popular locally as well.

Wayland and maelstrom are able to offer such discounting because they have grown their businesses to the point where higher volume lower margin sales are a reality.

Discounting isnt everything and I would be loathe to reduce the potential profit in order to try and directly compete unless I had the funding and the stones to do so.

What this country lacks is decent wargaming stores that stock lots of different ranges and beleives that they can sell something other then GW. The South East has a complete lack of something like Maelstorm that does everything, so if your based down this way perhapes doing something simular to them would be a better idea?

rodgers37 wrote:

zilegil wrote:Where are you based? Or more to the point, where are you planning to be based? Before giving any word I want to know your close by competitors.

You have to remember that low prices aren't everything. I mean look at Wayland. They have dirt cheap postage as well as slightly lower prices to GW. Probably the most budget cut com competitor out there is Darksphere, though they have priced themselves out of it with postage making them only really worth it with large orders. Overall Wayland is a model. Or the likes of Maelstrom, as they have the largest range of products out of it.

Actually they haven't. Even when Maelstrom have 17% off, unless your ordering one or two things, Darksphere is cheaper. ACtually just compared, a tactical squad and rhino is just under £3 more expensive with maelstrom.

I was comparing more to Wayland. They have insane prices, and I was taking into account postage also. Darksphere have ridiculous postage.

mikhaila wrote:

Tiny GW store is bigger than the largest online store.)

To compete with a GW, carry what they don't and give people a place to play with lots of elbow room and good AC.

My biggest gripe about GW stores is that they never have what I'm looking for.. it's always, "We can order it for you!"
If I wanted to come into the GW store to order it online, I'd just buy it online and get a discount on it and save me the gas money of going into a GW store.

well if the online shop takes of we (me and my GF) are looking into purchesing a large shop with plenty of room to play as well as a large selection of tables and game's to play as well as plenty of room (we already know as we have looked at the store already).

Im based in atherton, manchester and there are only 2 GW stores that i know of, Wigan and Bolton, how ever we plan of selling a large a varied selection of stock as well as somthing GW no longer do. BITZ!

Lar'shi wrote: how ever we plan of selling a large a varied selection of stock as well as somthing GW no longer do. BITZ!

Get your store up and running first, the build out done, events running, etc. Then worry about bitz. In my mind, that's an entirely different business. And you wil never be able to do bitz in the way GW used to do them. )

Successful game stores do:

CCG's in particu8lar magic the gathering as it requires a small area of shop space for a large turnover item.

Then do the big three miniatures companies:

GW, Privateer Press and Spartan Games.

Do paints etc, select boardgames.
Then stop! If you want to do anything more make it software related

Other stuff is good but stuff like Battletech and RPG materials remain on shelves, instead encourage customers to support your store by ordering in from there. Too many games spoils the focus, you can do well enough with the three main games above.
Next have table areas for card games board games and miniatures games, or you will have all tables overrun with Magic the gathering groups and you will lose your focus to do anything else. Easy way to do this is to set up a 'host' table for 'game of the week'. Normally a boardgame ready to play, or to showcase a new army. Have another sculpted table or two for miniatures gaming and leave the rest open to play (and they will all be taken up 99% of the time with Magic the Gathering players). If you try and control use you will been as controlling by the kids who wont want to be there, so you need to steer table use indirectly.

I have seen it done well and seen it done badly. There is certainly room for Brick and mortar stores in the UK. High population density and all that. Set up in a fairly big town without a FLGS except the local GW. You want to be within 200m of the GW but you don't need prime retail location, a side street is ideal. Mums looking to buy stuff wont really come in there, and the local gamers and kids will know of the shop all too quickly.

MTG is only that invasive if the store lets it be. And for some stores, they have to work to build a MTG crowd. Depends on the area. I've got a lot of game tables always set up for open gaming. Always filled with wargamers, very rarely CCG's, altthough I sell a lot of CCG's.

Having 4' wide tables for wargamers, and some regular folding tables for cardgamers is good. Easier to fit more folks in that way.

If you try and control use you will been as controlling by the kids who wont want to be there, so you need to steer table use indirectly.

You should damn well be seen as controlling.) If it's your store, then your in control, not a bunch of kids that want to use your tables. Being seen as not in control, or not in charge is a much worse problem.

zilegil wrote:

rodgers37 wrote:

zilegil wrote:Where are you based? Or more to the point, where are you planning to be based? Before giving any word I want to know your close by competitors.

You have to remember that low prices aren't everything. I mean look at Wayland. They have dirt cheap postage as well as slightly lower prices to GW. Probably the most budget cut com competitor out there is Darksphere, though they have priced themselves out of it with postage making them only really worth it with large orders. Overall Wayland is a model. Or the likes of Maelstrom, as they have the largest range of products out of it.

Actually they haven't. Even when Maelstrom have 17% off, unless your ordering one or two things, Darksphere is cheaper. ACtually just compared, a tactical squad and rhino is just under £3 more expensive with maelstrom.

I was comparing more to Wayland. They have insane prices, and I was taking into account postage also. Darksphere have ridiculous postage.

I was taking into account postage, i'll just do a quick comparison with Wayland then. Again Tactical squad and Rhino, again cheaper with Dark Sphere (About 85p cheaper). There postage is a little high, but they are still cheaper than Wayland and Maelstrom, FACT. There may be the occasional time when Wayland and/or Maelstrom are cheaper, but even with just two 40k items, Darksphere are cheper.


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Lar'shi wrote:well if the online shop takes of we (me and my GF) are looking into purchesing a large shop with plenty of room to play as well as a large selection of tables and game's to play as well as plenty of room (we already know as we have looked at the store already).

Im based in atherton, manchester and there are only 2 GW stores that i know of, Wigan and Bolton, how ever we plan of selling a large a varied selection of stock as well as somthing GW no longer do. BITZ!

I honestly don't think an online shop will take off without a store.
Seriously, how are you going to compete with the big three UK online stores? Or even GW, I know a few people who still buy in GW, either because they play there, or used to play there etc. You need to get that local customer base up first. I think when there is already a good online presence, including ebay, unless you offer something stupid like 20% off with free postage (meaning you make next to nothing) your not going to get that popular that quick. Even Dark Sphere (who are cheaper, even taking postage into consideration) I don't think are as popular as Wayland and Maelstrom. You then also have the issue of local shops, people tend to be loyal to them if they have them.

Also, I haven't worked at a FLGS for a year and a half, but i'm fairly sure as an independent stockist, your not allowed to sell bits, if you get caught you can no longer sell GW stuff. I guess how the online places do it, is just buying from the cheapest retailers they can find, they might even have a deal set up with one of them to get stuff even cheaper in bulk. But unless GW have changed their rules, bits isn't allowed.

Get a actual store set up first, get people in playing the various games, have game nights for the different systems. Definatly sell the card games, they are always popular. If you can run Magic tournaments you will probably get pretty popular as well, at the FLGS I worked at, the tournament turn out was about double the regular turn out. If you've got enough space have small 40k, fantasy, warmachine tournaments as well. They are going to attract players, who will then hopefully like your store and become regulars. Even if not that local, they would then possibly buy from your online store.

It may be possible, but I just don't see it being possible to build a popular online store without getting the brick and mortar store done first. (Also would love to know if i'm right with this, are you even allowed to sell GW stuff online without a proper store? At the very least, what it used to be was you get more discount if you have an actual shop)

mikhaila wrote:

If you try and control use you will been as controlling by the kids who wont want to be there, so you need to steer table use indirectly.

You should damn well be seen as controlling.) If it's your store, then your in control, not a bunch of kids that want to use your tables. Being seen as not in control, or not in charge is a much worse problem.

Actually there is a difference between being in control and being controlling. The former is supervision and claiming ownership ther latter is authoritarianism, which kids dont like. Anyone who has worked with teens will know that unless fire and safety regs rely on it dont pile on the rules. Kids respect rules when rules are due, but they have a black and white sense of logic with regards to authoritarianism. If a kids plays up and you kick him out the other kids will respect you, but if you say table x is for game x and no players of x are present, even if some are on the way, you will look a dick to some, and those will remember and begin to bad mouth you.

Some hypothetical examples.

You have four gaming tables, you reserve two for CCg and two for miniatures gaming because your boss, fair enough. But CCG gamers turn up quickly after school and in larger number. Can we play on this talbe no-ones using it. Yes: It becomes a precendent. No: Your being a 'dick'.
This is what happens CCG's take over miniatures gaming gets swallowed out.

If after allowing the miaitures gaming tables to become CCg tables you try and let miniatures gamers get time in then again quietyl the people being moved on will think you are a dick, but those who get the table quickly forget. Its 'thank' they get on with the game and by the end of turn one they have forgotten what you did for them.

Teens have lobsided memories for what you told them not to do compared to what you did for them. Sooner or later eventually you get the reputation as being a 'dick', if you flatly say this is for this, that is for that if anyone can see an option otherwise.

I see a lot of independent games stores eventually get crowded by CCG players and noone else gets a look in because the tables are all 'open'. My local one has a painting table, and so that ends up for painting, but you cant get a game there and thus miniatures sales would inevitably suffer. It it had one featured generic miniatures table that would likely change.

The only way around this is to channel the environment, in this case make the miniatures gaming tables not suitable for CCG's, by adding terrain. Now of course CCG games could still be played on such tables, but the kids will move each other on when a couople of guys come with armies, it will be logical and you wont need to pick sides.

Channeling the environment is common in retail, not just putting sweets by the til but also general arrangement to get customers to go where you want them to go. Another example, McDonalds and other fast food chains use special fabric for their seating, designed to be comfortable for about ten minutes then increasingly uncomfortable (it has something to do with sweat sealing). It gets the job done of getting customers out of the door. It is an alternative subliminal no loitering rule, but without the social effects?

Orlanth wrote:

mikhaila wrote:

If you try and control use you will been as controlling by the kids who wont want to be there, so you need to steer table use indirectly.

You should damn well be seen as controlling.) If it's your store, then your in control, not a bunch of kids that want to use your tables. Being seen as not in control, or not in charge is a much worse problem.

Actually there is a difference between being in control and being controlling. The former is supervision and claiming ownership ther latter is authoritarianism, which kids dont like. Anyone who has worked with teens will know that unless fire and safety regs rely on it dont pile on the rules. Kids respect rules when rules are due, but they have a black and white sense of logic with regards to authoritarianism. If a kids plays up and you kick him out the other kids will respect you, but if you say table x is for game x and no players of x are present, even if some are on the way, you will look a dick to some, and those will remember and begin to bad mouth you.

Some hypothetical examples.

Not trying to be flippant, but I don't need hypothetical examples. I've worked with teens for 30 years, and run my game stores for 25 years, with gaming space in them for 20 years. We have 20 to 70 gamers in the store every single week, on multiple days. Managing to keep it all running smoothly is a constant bit of work. Whether you're 'in control' or 'controlling' are just semantics. One has a negative conatation and will be how the 14 year old that doesn't want to throw his trash away and leaves it under the gaming table will describe you. Or he'll go straight to "he's a dick", because he doesn't feel like any one should tell him he should be tossing out his own trash.

Yes, there are good ways and bad ways to control your store. But not being in control leads to many worse things than a 14 year old thinking you're a dick.) Losing the sales of a few dozen other customers for example, because you have a group of out of control players, or because they don't like your gaming enviorment.

Successfully done, you won't have to choose. They'll all be happy. But part of that success is controlling your own store, setting the rules, endforcing the rules.

Gotta agree with Mikhaila on this one. There are times when being in control is fine, and there are also plenty of times when you have to be seen as controlling. When people have options as far as which store they go to to play, spend money, and hang out, it doesn't take much for them to write off your store as just another under-achieving face in the crowd. The real trick is to be controlling while simply appearing to have everything under control. Big difference in leadership and outcome.

darksword miniatures need a uk site get in contact with them

You cannot do enough homework, any luxury business is a risky option right now. I would listen to Mik., like the voice of God on this stuff. I have been involved with game stores all my life and everything he has said has 99% truth and experience in it. I have never met him, but my brother has been to his stores and gives it a thumbs up which is all I need to know. He is absolutely right, velvet gloves 99% of the time is what people want, regardless of what they say, they are there to have a good time. A good suggestion I have seen is what Mik. was saying smaller unacceptable tables for cards with chairs, wargamers are standing/walking around the table 50% of the time anyway. If you have the capital a soda dispenser was a huge cash stream for me over the years, just no matter how much you like screwdrivers no OJ. :p

just to let you guys know i am not ignoring you i am keeping tabs and taking all suggestions on this, please keep them coming, any suggestions will be considered.