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Why does it seem that every Guard regiment that turns traitor goes from this:






To this:






It just seems they do an instant uniform/weapon change, why is that?

Because it is easier to distinguish the two just by looking at them if it is assumed that they go total chaos worshipping by going traitor.

Personally I like the idea of traitor regiments being that they just decided they have had enough c%$p from the Ecclesiarchy/High Lords of Terra/Inquisition/everyone else who gives them orders and have splintered off just to live on their own, no chaos worshipping, just want to be left alone. Of course they don't get left alone and have to fight.

Because not every Regiment is from Cadia/uses Cadian equipment?

Also that picture you've posted is of a renegade militiaman from Vraks (IA5), so their uniforms and equipment will be quite different from a Cadian's.

Sparks_Havelock wrote:Because not every Regiment is from Cadia/uses Cadian equipment?

Also that picture you've posted is of a renegade militiaman from Vraks (IA5), so their uniforms and equipment will be quite different from a Cadian's.

Yes, I realize that, but also see the Traitor Guardsmen on the new IG Codex? what regiment are those?


it just seems every regiment(if it uses Cadian equipment) starts wearing Gas mask's and starts wielding Autoguns.

God-Emperor of Mankind wrote:

Sparks_Havelock wrote:Because not every Regiment is from Cadia/uses Cadian equipment?

Also that picture you've posted is of a renegade militiaman from Vraks (IA5), so their uniforms and equipment will be quite different from a Cadian's.

Yes, I realize that, but also see the Traitor Guardsmen on the new IG Codex? what regiment are those?


it just seems every regiment(if it uses Cadian equipment) starts wearing Gas mask's and starts wielding Autoguns.

Not every regiment does, in fact in the CSM Codex there are pictures of Cadian-equipped traitors. But that is because they went traitor on Cadia itself.

When a regiment or planet turns renegade they lose a few things. A) They no longer have access to Imperial supply lines (unless they raid them, but they would need a navy for that.) B)Most of the time Techpriest would either be killed or go into hiding.

So after years of disrepair and no supplies, the Guardsmen would have to turn to what is easier to make. Autoguns have been said to be easier to make than Lasguns. As well as other equipment like older pattern tanks and what not. Then you have renegades that look less like the Imperium's hammer and more like what you see in the picture above.

Go look up the Blood Pact.

God-Emperor of Mankind wrote:

Sparks_Havelock wrote:Because not every Regiment is from Cadia/uses Cadian equipment?

Also that picture you've posted is of a renegade militiaman from Vraks (IA5), so their uniforms and equipment will be quite different from a Cadian's.

Yes, I realize that, but also see the Traitor Guardsmen on the new IG Codex? what regiment are those?


it just seems every regiment(if it uses Cadian equipment) starts wearing Gas mask's and starts wielding Autoguns.

There's a new IG codex??? when that come out?

The current 5th ed codex has some traitor guard on the cover.

Autoguns are more plentiful and easier to obtain outside of the Imperial Guard. I think the reason that almost every traitor regiment wears gas masks is that the mask takes away the humanity, representing their fall to chaos.

Sparks_Havelock wrote:Because not every Regiment is from Cadia/uses Cadian equipment?
Also that picture you've posted is of a renegade militiaman from Vraks (IA5), so their uniforms and equipment will be quite different from a Cadian's.

Hit the nail on the head.

Also, Forgeworld's IA books are just one interpretation of the setting and they don't necessarily have to conform to what GW writes. Traitor Guard actually had rules in the 3E Witch Hunters Codex, and they still had lasguns there. As do these guys that GW occasionally features in their books:



Actually, didn't they even get special rules in some issue of WD, too?

God-Emperor of Mankind wrote:

Sparks_Havelock wrote:Because not every Regiment is from Cadia/uses Cadian equipment?

Also that picture you've posted is of a renegade militiaman from Vraks (IA5), so their uniforms and equipment will be quite different from a Cadian's.

Yes, I realize that, but also see the Traitor Guardsmen on the new IG Codex? what regiment are those?


it just seems every regiment(if it uses Cadian equipment) starts wearing Gas mask's and starts wielding Autoguns.

It's a visual tool to distinguish what would otherwise be indistinguishable factions. Of course not all traitor guard regiments are full blown cultists, but it's much easier to portray them that way.

Because it looks cool. The imperial guard and by extension PDF forces (that are more likely to turn traitor than a full Imperial Guard regiment) are infinitely varied and could look however you pleased or in any imaginable way, just like guardsmen.

They only do so because you assume (and over-generalise) that they do.

In reality, they don't.

Much like loyalist Guard, there are all sorts of Traitor Guard forces and therefore many different 'uniforms'.

On the bottom picture depicting a Chaos militiaman:

1st: He isn't even a guardsman. It's highly unlikely any of Xaphan's men ever served in an Imperial Guard regiment, he's more likely a Vraksian soldier or even a civilian, inducted to the traitor cardinal's militia.

2nd: His equipment is subpar not because Chaos corrupts or something. Vraks was an armory world, but most equipment stored there had been long deemed obsolete by the logisticians of the Munitorum. Also, he seems to be carrying nonstandard equipment, probably carried over from his days as a worker/pilgrim/whatever.

3rd: As for Chaos regalia in his breastplate and uniform, most Vraksians loyal to Xaphan wore it, though it's explicitly stated that they were largely unaware of its meaning.

Tremolo is right, to the lower picture we can see Vraks Renegade that was from Vraksian militia formerly. It is also noted on the same page that picture is from that men put Chaos star on his armor without realizing what that even means ( Siege of Vraks part 1, page 42 ).

And even if it's true that many Imperial Guard worlds copy Cadian equipment, most of them are using their own designs and uniforms.

Heh, thanks Coa. I recalled that bit from The Siege of Vraks, but didn't have the book here to check.

Actually, the term 'traitor guard' is just community slang. Some players want to play or model the "rank and file" Chaos armies, those that are neither Daemons nor Space Marines. Those armies are often mentioned in the fluff but don't have rules or miniatures at the moment, so players are forced to use the IG codex and miniature line.

In fluff, these are mostly cultists, militias and standing armies from chaos-worshipping worlds, though there have been cases of IG regiments defecting to Chaos (Volscani Cataphracts come to mind...)

Chaos-worshiping brings natural physical degeneration , mental instability, and mutations.

Guard that just turned into raiders/pirates could look fairly normal though.

They don't ALL look like that, but that sort of thing is the visual shorthand for Traitor Guardsman/Chaos warband.

The crappier gear, dirty and mismatched, Chaos stars daubed over everything, and a freaky gasmask.

They have lost Munitorum supply lines, so they don't have all the shiny new gear all the time, so they scavenge, kitbash and make do.

Traitor Guardsmen who've fallen to Chaos tend to go psycho-zealot conversion, so Chaos 8 point stars everywhere!

And, as someone else said, the gas mask does a lot to dehumanize them and make them more menacing, so the artist includes that.

And as ObviousBlueCaboose said, check out the Blood Pact, from Gaunt's Ghosts novels by Dan Abnett (ZOMG BEST WRITER EVAR). They're a Chaos warrior army specifically designed along Guard lines, using a lot of their captured and copied equipement and doctrines. So unlike most ravening hordes of Chaos cultists, they're disciplined, strong and well organized. Over almost a dozen books, the Ghosts have fought them, and other Chaos factions. They don't fight a lot of spooky daemon stuff, and only fought a single squad of Traitor Marines one time. Mostly, they slug it out with Blood Pact. So that would be a straight Chaos inversion of a Guard army.

I like another army that the Ghosts fought, on Saint Sabbat's world; the evil pilgrim guys. They covered themselves in blasphemous tattooes, and dressed like pilgrims, but were equipped and fought like Guardsmen, with lasguns and armor in support. They were pretty cool

CrashCanuck wrote:Because it is easier to distinguish the two just by looking at them if it is assumed that they go total chaos worshipping by going traitor.

Personally I like the idea of traitor regiments being that they just decided they have had enough c%$p from the Ecclesiarchy/High Lords of Terra/Inquisition/everyone else who gives them orders and have splintered off just to live on their own, no chaos worshipping, just want to be left alone. Of course they don't get left alone and have to fight.

Exactly. Its just imperial propaganda baby!
We have to remember that the Imperium tends to classify any world as "tainted," be it falling from a chaos plague, infestation of demons, or a modern day Washington crossing the Delaware.

Now if the worlds are demon worlds or fell to chaos via nurgle plagues (13th Crusade as an example), then I can understand. There are mutating effects to deal with.

However older fluff noted systems that had fallen from the Imperial grace for hundreds, even thousands of years with flourishing cultures, technologies, and economies. I'd proffer a world free of Imperial tyranny might become technologically advanced rather quickly and would present something far more like Marines/Tau then slavering nut jobs.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Agent_Tremolo wrote:Heh, thanks Coa. I recalled that bit from The Siege of Vraks, but didn't have the book here to check.

Actually, the term 'traitor guard' is just community slang. Some players want to play or model the "rank and file" Chaos armies, those that are neither Daemons nor Space Marines. Those armies are often mentioned in the fluff but don't have rules or miniatures at the moment, so players are forced to use the IG codex and miniature line.

In fluff, these are mostly cultists, militias and standing armies from chaos-worshipping worlds, though there have been cases of IG regiments defecting to Chaos (Volscani Cataphracts come to mind...)

Not now (outside of Forge World) but they most definitely used to.
Witch Hunters list
More importantly the 13th crusade had an excllent and highly flexible Lost and the Damned list that gave you the options of everything from bog standard guard to cultists to raging mutants, demons, and chaos marine backup. It was a staple for converters and people with alternate visions of armies.