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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/01/25 20:26:31
Subject: 1500 point Imperial Guard
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Knight of the Inner Circle
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HQ:
CCS
-camo cloak,nades,medic,standard, vox,Heavy flamer
Troops:
Inf Platoon
Platoon Command - krak nades, 4x nade launcher, commander - plas pistol/power weapon
*Platoon -vox , commissar
*Heavy weapon team - 3x Auto cannons
*Special weapons team - 3x plasma guns
Veteran Squad - Sentries, 2x flamer, sniper, chimera
Veteran Squad - Sentries, 2x flamer, sniper, chimera
Fast Attack:
Bane Wolf
Heavy Support:
Demolisher
Demolisher
Vanquisher
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6000 points
4000 points
Empire 5500 Points
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/01/25 20:51:40
Subject: Re:1500 point Imperial Guard
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Lord of the Fleet
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Well, definitely some ways to improve.
First of all, what's the composition of the platoon? All you have written is a platoon command squad, a heavy weapon squad, and a special weapon squad. Then this weird 'platoon' thing. A platoon must consist of the command squad and a minimum of two infantry squads, so maybe write that out if you paid for it.
On to the list.
The CCS is rather meh. Its just not doing anything besides cowering in a corner. Either run on foot with maxed out special weapons (normally with Straken too), or mount it in a chimera with maxed special weapons. Camo cloaks are largely too expensive for just five guys, as is the medic. I don't like voxes because they're just not good and the units that really need them (HWS) can't take them. CCS should be simple, with just 3-4 of the same special weapon and used as fire support or a force multiplier with orders and maybe a special character.
The platoon command squad shouldn't really be in close combat, so drop the power weapon. Plasma pistols are a gamble, as you don't want to lose the officer that issues the orders, so I'd recommend using those points elsewhere. GLs are okay I guess, though flamers and melta guns are significantly better.
I don't know what the composition of the actual infantry squads are, so I won't comment.
HWS is good. Special weapon squad is better off putting those special weapons in squads with either a higher BS (vets) or within bigger units (blobs). SWS on foot just won't be doing all that much.
The vets are what really confuses me. Why sentries when they're in a chimera? Largely useless and a waste of 30pts. The only remotely useful doctrine is demolitions for the sheer awesomeness of a demo charge, but you're better off not taking them. Vets are BS4, don't waste it on flamers! Sniper rifles are also terrible, and I'd recommend making the vets either melta vets or plasma vets.
Bane wolf is probably my least favorite of the hellhound variants, but I guess its fun. Technically vendettas are the best fast attack choice, but I like hellhounds. Personally, I'd recommend getting a hellhound with a hull multi-melta.
Demolishers are good. Vanquishers are bad. A single BS3 shot that isn't AP1? Sure, if you hit you'll likely penetrate, but then you still have to roll a 5+. I'd drop it and get a regular russ for the sheer versatility of it.
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Mordian Iron Guard - Major Overhaul in Progress
+Spaceship Gaming Enthusiast+
Live near Halifax, NS? Ask me about our group, the Ordo Haligonias! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/01/25 20:55:00
Subject: Re:1500 point Imperial Guard
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Knight of the Inner Circle
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Yeah I am very new to guard.....only played 2 games. I plan on redoing the list when i have more than 10 minutes to make one. I will post another later tonight. Just for the record when I wrote platoon, i meant the 2 base guard squads.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/01/25 20:55:34
6000 points
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Empire 5500 Points
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/01/25 20:57:52
Subject: Re:1500 point Imperial Guard
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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So how do you kill things? The two Demolishers are the only real credible threat that I can see and they are very inaccurate and a pair of them are easy to neutralize as all the enemy's AT fire will be flying at them.....all they need to do is glance to stop you from shooting and the rest of the army can mow down the infantry.
You've got a lot of stuff in the list....but not a ton of hitting power.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/01/25 20:59:23
Subject: 1500 point Imperial Guard
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Storm Trooper with Maglight
Milwaukee, WI
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Camo cloaks might be useful if you're using a foot CCS as a LasCannon platform in sufficiently good cover (e.g. a Cityfight). Even then it's an extremely expensive upgrade for a small (fragile) squad that already got an expensive weapon. That makes for a pretty serious point sink. Generally (and separate from the foot CCS advice above): Spend points to make what's already good better, not to make what's bad mediocre. Guard isn't ever going to be an all-around force, you need to sharpen your spearpoint (guns, and lots of them) rather than trying to put a blade on the back of your spear handle (assault). You'll use the spearpoint better and more often than you will need that backup handle-blade (much less do anything useful with it).
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This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2012/01/25 21:40:27
18th Gamtilla Secundus Dragoon Guards Regiment: “The Lord Governor’s Own” |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/01/25 21:39:09
Subject: Re:1500 point Imperial Guard
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Rough Rider with Boomstick
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Blacksails gives a good, specific beak down. I think most people would agree that he is giving you good advice to make your list more competitive.
On a more general note, someone gave me some good advice when I started playing IG (and 40k at all). I will try and pass it on as best I can.
A good, general, all purpose, all comers army list should be reliable and flexible.
Think of the three basic missions, the three basic deployments, and your three most likely opponent's armies. Try to have at least a 1/3 chance at winning most matches
Your army should be able to handle a variety of threats and pose a variety of threats.
Your units should be good at something, not try to be good at everything
Think of your local metagame when you try to fine tune your mix of units. (lots of horde? more anti-infantry. Lots of transports? more anti-tank. etc)
If you don't have (or don't know) the local metagame, build to compete vs Space Marines (MEQ)
Try to have an answer or three for most of the following problems
2+ armor saves
3+ invuln saves
drop pod/deepstrike assaults
gunlines (static artillery based armies)
horde amries
mechannized armies (light tank transports)
AV 14 bricks (Land raider, Monolith)
big angry walkers/monstrous creatures
night fighting
losing initiative (plan on going 2nd AT LEAST 1/2 the time)
your answers can overlap and serve multiple functions, but likely not equally well.
"shoot it a bunch till they roll a one" is a valid tactic, but if it is what you are relying on for more than one of the above problems, you will lose more games than you have to.
For IG, here are some strong, reliable choices
CCS (often with 4x melta, plasma, or grenade launcher and a chimera)
Chimeras with Multi-laser and Hull Heavy Flamer
Vet Squads with 3x melta, plasma, or grenade launcher and a chimera
Vendetta (with HBS)
Hellhound (with MM)
Leman Rus Battle tank (good vs 3+ armor infantry-MEQ)
Leman Rus Demolisher (good vs 2+ armor-Terminators)
Manticore
I am a big fan of Hydras and Medusaes as well, but they are often harder to aqcuire.
Psyker battle squads can be great, but not if you often face anti-psyker powers
IG wins battle by having lots and lots and lots of threats. That doesn't mean take every upgrade. Take lots of the best ones.
good luck
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"Ignorance is bliss, and I am a happy man."
"When you claim to be a purple unicorn, and I do not argue with you, it is not because I agree with you."
“If the iron is hot, I desire to believe it is hot, and if it is cool, I desire to believe it is cool.”
"Beware when you find yourself arguing that a policy is defensible rather than optimal; or that it has some benefit compared to the null action, rather than the best benefit of any action." |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/01/26 03:33:45
Subject: Re:1500 point Imperial Guard
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Knight of the Inner Circle
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For the record....I am using almost all of my models so I really don't have room to change and won't be able to buy any new models for quite a while.
I also bumped the list up to 1750.
CCS - Camo cloaks, Krak grenades, Medic, Standard, and Vox, the commander with power weapon, Bolt pistol, and melta bombs (tanith's Gaunt model as I play Tanith) . My goal for them is to take any assaults that they can handle or to tie something up and to stay alive from fire, and orders.
Lord Commissar - Camo Cloak, Melta bombs, power weapon: he is going to ride with the blob and give them all stealth
Troops:
Inf Platoon
- Command - 4x nade launchers, commander with plas pistol/power weapon, commissar (so they don't run)
- Blob: 2x flamers, vox (20 guardsmen blob) Short range fire power to cook assault lists (which are prevalent in my shop). There is no way to prevent things like DOA with a long range blob
- Heavy weapons team 3x auto cannons
- Heavy weapons team 3x missile launchers
Veteran Squad - Demolitions, 2x meltaguns, plasma gun, chimera w/ heavy flamer, multilaser
Veteran Squad - Demolitions, 2x plasma guns, and yes flamer, chimera w/ heavy flamer, multilaser
Bane wolf - heavy flamer on front
Demolisher - las cannon
Demolisher - las cannon, melta sponsons
Demolisher - las cannon, melta sponsons (the sponsons came with the ones i bought)(Ebay)
Definitely an anti horde list as that is pretty common, at this point level I think it would do OK against alot of the power armor players. Just because of volume of shots. GK are a mid range army and so when they get within optimum range....I can pound them. I know there is alot of changed that should be made.....I don't have the money atm to buy new models.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/01/26 07:42:27
Subject: Re:1500 point Imperial Guard
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Member of a Lodge? I Can't Say
WI
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Fair enough you don't have the cash for more stuff... but instead of increasing the points, play smaller games to make better use of the figs you have.
CCS
Krak nades are really not worth it for the most part, because they are only Str 6. A 5 man squad of Guard can not 'handle assaults'. I do not have a problem with the Camo Cloaks and just using them for Orders, but the Vox has got to go, and so does the Medic. Missile Launchers are not a great choice for Guard because the Str 8 Krak missile ends up being shot at transports, the same target ACs shoot at. This is why LCs or ACs are the heavy weapon of choice... LCs for AV 12-14 and ACs to AV 12 or less and infantry. If it is a friendly game you want to play in, just call them Lascannons and pay the points for them. Do the same thing with your GLs...call them Melta guns... just don't mix real ones in with fakes.
My suggested CCS...
CCS - 125pts (or 120pts if you use the ML as a ML)
LC, Standard, Plasma gun, Camo Cloaks, Melta Bomb
Lord Commissar
You want to know his best role here? To baby sit your HWSs with his 'Aura of Discipline', but since we are gonna split up the ML HWS, he really isn't needed. Yes, giving your blob 3+ covers saves is neat, if it was camping and had long range weapons. You have neither. Also understand that all independant characters (ICs) can be targeted in close combat, and they have rules where they move before any of your blob guys do in a attempt to get up in close combat. The problem with almost /all/ IG ICs is that they are /very/ crunchy due to the T 3 and no real armor save. To be honest, I wouldn't use him in your current list... set him off to the side or use him as a normal Commissar (since he has a power weapon) in your blob.
PCS
Drop the Commissar, as shooting your Plasma Pistol/Power sword commander is not worth it. This should be your home for your Flamers, so drop the GLs and say they are melta guns. I have a plan for your PCS and CCS commander...
My suggested PCS...
PCS - 55pts
3x Flamers, Vox, Melta bomb
PIS
Ahh, your blob... this is where things get interesting. I took out the flamers, so give each squad a Melta gun instead. Since they are on the board, give them the actual melta guns. I am also going to take away 4 more lasguns to give you the two ML HWTs. Switch your Sergeants for your CCS commander and PCS Commander, and throw in your Lord Commissar fig and you now have a defensive power blob, though you will have to say the Plasma pistol is a bolt pistol. Another option is to give them the last two Plasma guns... eh, why not. I normally don't give BS 3 troops a plasma, but it is a defensive blob and we are calling the MLs Lascannons already...
My Suggested PISs...
PIS - 147pts (blob 1)
Commissar, 2x PWs, Plasma gun, LC, Melta bomb, Bolt Pistol
PIS - 102pts (blob 1)
PW, Plasma gun, LC, Melta bomb, Bolt Pistol, Vox
AC HWS - 75pts (as is)
Vets - 185pts
3x Melta guns, Demolitions, Chimera ML/HHF
Vets - 185pts
3x Melta guns, Demolitions, Chimera ML/HHF
Bane Wolf - 130pts
Hull HF
Demolisher - 165pts
Demolisher - 165pts
Demolisher - 165pts
1499pts
Use your Demolishers as stock Demolishers, as putting anti-tank on them makes them more versital, but the Demolisher Cannon blows against vehicles due to using a blast marker and the scatter dice to hit with. If the center hole is not on the targeted vehicle, the weapon is half strength. Since your Ordnance, you roll two dice for armor penetration, but you only keep the highest dice... and the scatter dice means your actually /worse/ at hitting than a normal BS 3, due to the scatter dice only having two sides with 'Hit' on it...so instead of 50% chance of hitting, your down to 33%. The 'Lumbering Behemoth' rule means you can only fire one weapon /AND/ the Turret weapon (plus defensive weapons, like heavy stubbers). Each Sponson is a single weapon, and the Lascannon is a seperate weapon as well, so to fire everything you can't move... and when your not moving all close combat attacks against you are auto-hits on your rear armor.... so a LRBT that doesn't move is a dead LRBT.
Move your Demolishers up every turn with your Chimeras behind them, using the Demolishers as cover. Use the Blob, CCS, and AC HWS to give your vehicles covering fire. Remember the CCS can give itself Orders, so 'Bring it Down!' for itself and to the blob (now at Ld 9 due to the Commissar) to take out vehicles. Use the AC HWS to take out transports, MCs, or fire on troops... with 6 shots a turn, you shouldn't have to make it Twin Linked with 'Bring it Down!', but against MCs it should help. Remember 'Bring it Down!' only works if the CCS can see it and if the unit getting the Order sees the target... and only against Vehicles and MCs. Use your PCS to advance behind the last Demolisher. Burn out weak, cover save based troops and use the PCS to camp captured objectives or for Hoard defence. If you have to move the PCS, or move the blob, have the PCS issue 'Move! Move! Move!' to itself or the blob.
I had 15pts-20pts extra, so thus the voxs and some extra melta bombs (on the PCS and CCS). If you still want your 'special' CCS commander, drop the Voxs for a PW for your CCS.
Good luck, hope this helps...
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Been playing 40k on and off since 89.
Armies...
Orks, Eldar, Lamentors, Pre-Heresy EC, CSM EC, and IG. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/01/26 14:18:43
Subject: Re:1500 point Imperial Guard
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Knight of the Inner Circle
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Thanks, it seems that I am going to have to invest in some meltas.....
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/01/28 08:21:00
Subject: Re:1500 point Imperial Guard
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Member of a Lodge? I Can't Say
WI
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If your good with green stuff and a razor blade... GW melta guns
They also have Plasma guns.
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Been playing 40k on and off since 89.
Armies...
Orks, Eldar, Lamentors, Pre-Heresy EC, CSM EC, and IG. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/01/29 03:54:43
Subject: Re:1500 point Imperial Guard
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Knight of the Inner Circle
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Orrrrrr new thought! Make the platoons for CC. Here is the list I made (looking at investing in a few models) {attachment form}
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Guard.pdf |
Download
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Description |
Bumped up to 2000 guard list |
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48 Kbytes
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/01/30 00:19:15
Subject: Re:1500 point Imperial Guard
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Knight of the Inner Circle
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I made this list in Army Builder btw...
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/01/30 00:46:56
Subject: Re:1500 point Imperial Guard
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Lord of the Fleet
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Mother of god, army builder makes my eyes bleed. Seriously though, I have no clue how you people read that jumbled up, unnecessarily complex and redundant program. I can barely make heads or tails of whats in each unit, and to top it off, the Lord Commissar is listed under 'Troops' rather than 'HQ'.
Anyways, from what I managed to decipher from that mess, I'll try and provide some advice.
Squadrons are bad. Say it with me, "Squadrons are bad". Hydras do well in squadrons because they're so cheap and you can nearly guarantee a destroyed result against AV10/11 with two of them. Everything else just becomes a large, expensive, single target that can only shoot one enemy target and gets destroyed on a 4+. Not good. I used to run maxed out russ squadrons, and I eventually stopped because they just sucked so hard.
Vanquishers are also bad, just stick to the demolishers, vanilla, and executioner variants. Manticore is good, can't go wrong there.
Also, I find it odd you mentioned something about close combat blobs, yet your blob doesn't have a single power weapon in it. Power blobs need those power weapons.
There's probably more I missed, but I seriously can't bring myself to wade through the nonsense that is army builder. Just use a calculator and Word, its better for everyone.
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Mordian Iron Guard - Major Overhaul in Progress
+Spaceship Gaming Enthusiast+
Live near Halifax, NS? Ask me about our group, the Ordo Haligonias! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/01/30 03:31:04
Subject: Re:1500 point Imperial Guard
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Knight of the Inner Circle
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Haha other than the no power weapons and the vanquisher, what do you think? By the way the lord commissar is run with my blob and that is why he was under troops.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/01/15 18:02:38
Subject: 1500 point Imperial Guard
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Member of a Lodge? I Can't Say
WI
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Also understand that all independant characters (ICs) can be targeted in close combat,
My comment on ICs in the blob stand.
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Been playing 40k on and off since 89.
Armies...
Orks, Eldar, Lamentors, Pre-Heresy EC, CSM EC, and IG. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/01/31 23:45:14
Subject: Re:1500 point Imperial Guard
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Knight of the Inner Circle
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Honestly, I am just gonna try it against a friend that has been playing since the 80's...we shall see. Will post results
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