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Do swarms take double wounds from unsaved wounds from a vehicle exploding? It doesn't seem like they should since the vulnerable to blasts/templates rule is specific to blasts and templates and a vehicle exploding is similar to a blast but is not actually a blast. This came up in a game i was watching today and I was just curious.

Vehicle explosions do not use blasts/templates, so no.

TheAvengingKnee wrote:Do swarms take double wounds from unsaved wounds from a vehicle exploding? It doesn't seem like they should since the vulnerable to blasts/templates rule is specific to blasts and templates and a vehicle exploding is similar to a blast but is not actually a blast. This came up in a game i was watching today and I was just curious.

No, it would only be wounds taken from blast or template weapons.

I had this happen in a game last week. I didn't even think about it, just doubled the unsaved wounds against myself. I was just so happy that my scarabs had blown something up I didn't care. In retrospect, I'm a filthy cheater.

Looking at the Necron Codex.. page 29 under the Entropic Strike rule.. last sentence it states .. " if a vehicle is reduced to armour 0 on any facing, it is Immediately wrecked.. so looking at BRB.. under Wrecked for vehicles.. page 61 Vehcile Damage Table chart.. 5 = Dstroyed - Wrecked.. there is no Explodes in this wrecked. swarms = safe... now if your Dlord or some thing else punched threw it and your swarms still around it, and you get a 6 on vehicle damage chart.. hmmm no swarms don't double wounds but they not safe from explodes. I tesla my swarms a couple of games ago.. hit a unit.. then rolled for the Ark.. guess what yep.. swarm unit got hit and i rolled a 6 for number of times.. lol.. i had to roll 6 armor saves and the str was double the T.. so yeah i killed 3 of my own swarm bases. but wow i love the ark hehehe.

Scarabs still have a Strength value, so don't need to lower the AV to 0 in order to destroy a vehicle.

Avatar 720 wrote:Scarabs still have a Strength value, so don't need to lower the AV to 0 in order to destroy a vehicle.

this is true.. but STR 3? why not just finish the job via ES and be save about wrecking the vehicle and keep from going boom on your self.. just eat the armor and go on to next vehicle. thats how i try and play.

Necronmike wrote:

Avatar 720 wrote:Scarabs still have a Strength value, so don't need to lower the AV to 0 in order to destroy a vehicle.

this is true.. but STR 3? why not just finish the job via ES and be save about wrecking the vehicle and keep from going boom on your self.. just eat the armor and go on to next vehicle. thats how i try and play.

... because you don't have a choice. You roll for ES, then roll for pen. If the ES doesn't kill it (say it leaves the vehicle at AV1) you must roll all your pens.

rigeld2 wrote:

Necronmike wrote:

Avatar 720 wrote:Scarabs still have a Strength value, so don't need to lower the AV to 0 in order to destroy a vehicle.

this is true.. but STR 3? why not just finish the job via ES and be save about wrecking the vehicle and keep from going boom on your self.. just eat the armor and go on to next vehicle. thats how i try and play.

... because you don't have a choice. You roll for ES, then roll for pen. If the ES doesn't kill it (say it leaves the vehicle at AV1) you must roll all your pens.

hmmm have not thought about the AV getting down to 1 and not finishing it.. then having to roll for pen.. can't say this has happend to me yet.. whats weird is for some reason my swarms either do 1 of 2 things.. either they do really good about taking out vehicles left and right.. or they end up being a good tar pit for a unit to get stuck in CC with.. can't say i've gotten a vehicle to AV1 and then have to roll for pen. noramaly get it to 0 no problems.

Str 3 + d6 to pen. That's been much more common for me then knocking it down to AV 0. Remember that the AV drops before you roll to pen.

Mathhammer : to drop a vehichle's back armor from 10 to 0 would require an average of 20 hits. That's 5 scarabs charging a stationary vehicle, 10 charging a combat moved vehicle, and 30 charging a cruising vehicle. If your opponent has moved their vehicle and killed even one of your 10-pack, it will not zero their rear armor the majority of the time.

Necronmike wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

Necronmike wrote:

Avatar 720 wrote:Scarabs still have a Strength value, so don't need to lower the AV to 0 in order to destroy a vehicle.

this is true.. but STR 3? why not just finish the job via ES and be save about wrecking the vehicle and keep from going boom on your self.. just eat the armor and go on to next vehicle. thats how i try and play.

... because you don't have a choice. You roll for ES, then roll for pen. If the ES doesn't kill it (say it leaves the vehicle at AV1) you must roll all your pens.

hmmm have not thought about the AV getting down to 1 and not finishing it.. then having to roll for pen.. can't say this has happend to me yet.. whats weird is for some reason my swarms either do 1 of 2 things.. either they do really good about taking out vehicles left and right.. or they end up being a good tar pit for a unit to get stuck in CC with.. can't say i've gotten a vehicle to AV1 and then have to roll for pen. noramaly get it to 0 no problems.

As foolishmortal pointed out - it's not just leaving it at AV 1. Any AV under 8 will allow you to pen and potentially explode it. If you usually go straight from 10 to 0 either your opponents need to learn to move their vehicles or you have insane luck.

well i normaly Pack 10 swarms in a unit. guess i'll have to keep my eye on this and remeber if i don't get the amor to 0.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
i wouldn't say insane luck.. just wierd and stupid luck.. like for some wierd reason i have problems getting uints out of Reserv.. i mean tuesday night.. when i needed a 4 .. i rolled a 3.. when i needed a 3.. i rolled a 2.. when i needed a 2 .. i rolled a 1 .. so i had 375 points sitting out all game.. thats just stupid. luck there..


Automatically Appended Next Post:
hmmm guess i have not really thought about the str3 + D6.. i normaly focused on ES. guess i could have pen on some vehicles and not relized it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
OK so the ES happens first then the str 3 + D6 .. lets see if i got this now.. 5 swarms attack a av 10 walker that moved.. so thats a 4 + to hit.. so that would avg.. about 12.5 hits.. then out of those 4+ to ES so 6 Dice would triger the ES and lower the AV to 4 then the remaining 6 dice would roll to pen it? out of the 12.5 hits?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
maybe i need a leason on ES and how it works with my swarms..lol. i just thought i had it fig out.

Necronmike wrote:OK so the ES happens first then the str 3 + D6 .. lets see if i got this now.. 5 swarms attack a av 10 walker that moved.. so thats a 4 + to hit.. so that would avg.. about 12.5 hits.. then out of those 4+ to ES so 6 Dice would triger the ES and lower the AV to 4 then the remaining 6 dice would roll to pen it? out of the 12.5 hits?

No. I believe that you would get the 6 ES effects and then you would roll the 12.5 armour pen dice. ES is a bonus effect, you still get all of your penetration rolls as normal.

my math hammer analysis was flawed. I was thinking scarabs were 3 base attacks, not 4

Trickstick wrote:

Necronmike wrote:OK so the ES happens first then the str 3 + D6 .. lets see if i got this now.. 5 swarms attack a av 10 walker that moved.. so thats a 4 + to hit.. so that would avg.. about 12.5 hits.. then out of those 4+ to ES so 6 Dice would triger the ES and lower the AV to 4 then the remaining 6 dice would roll to pen it? out of the 12.5 hits?

No. I believe that you would get the 6 ES effects and then you would roll the 12.5 armour pen dice. ES is a bonus effect, you still get all of your penetration rolls as normal.

hmmmm well that makes it nice .. 12.5 dice to roll and add 3 to each.. thats alot of chances for 6's there.

ALso walkers are hit on WS vs WS, so thats another issue....

Yeah i know i was just trying to give a quick example so i can understand it