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Alright, so I'm FINALLY having my first game this weekend (all sorts of shenanigans have happened over the past month preventing me from playing, oh well, lets me tweak some more ) Anyways, this is a foot heavy list, with a basic Leman Russ that I'll be buying from a guy when I get there. I literally own no other armor besides a sentinel, so this is kind of the best I can do, so sorry leafblower guys, but this is all I've got. I'm thinking of getting more Leman Russ's and maybe a Manticore in the future, but for now this is it. So without any further ado, here we go!

***EDITED THE LIST*** V.2.1

2nd 1000pt Imperial Guard

Test (1000pts)
1000pt Imperial Guard 5th Ed (2009) Roster (Standard)

Selections:

* HQ (175pts)

* Company Command Squad (175pts)
Colonel 'Iron Hand' Straken (95pts), 2x Plasma, 2x Laspistol/CCw

* Elites (65pts)

* Guardsman Marbo (65pts)

* Troops (595pts)

*1st Infantry Platoon (300pts)

* 1st pltn. 1st Infantry Squad (120pts)
Meltagun,Commissar Bolt Pistol, Power Weapon,Sergeant Melta Bombs/Power Weapon

* 1st pltn. 2nd Infantry Squad (75pts)
Meltagun,Sergeant Melta Bombs, Power Weapon

* 1st pltn. 3rd Infantry Squad (75pts)
Meltagun, Sergeant Melta Bombs/Power Weapon

* Baby sitting - Platoon Command Squad (30pts) (this squad will camp the home objective so I can bring the 2nd platoon up to fight. The HWS may camp out with them too, I'm not sure yet.

* 2nd Infantry Platoon (295pts)

* Heavy Weapons Squad (75pts)
3x Autocannon

* 2nd pltn. 1st Infantry Squad (65pts)
GL, Sarge Power Weapon

* 2nd pltn. 2nd Infantry Squad (110pts)
GL, Commissar w/ Bolt Pistol/Power Weapon, Sergeant Power Weapon

*2nd pltn. Platoon Command Squad (45pts)
3x Grenade Launcher (15pts)

* Heavy Support (165pts)

* Leman Russ (165pts)
Extra Armour, Heavy Bolter


Army notes: Alright, tweaked the list a bit. Same jist, just trying to optimize it a bit more. The autocannons got moved to their own squad, and the voxes and 2nd CCS have been dropped. A commisar has been added to second platoon to compensate, as well as PW's for the 2 sarges in that blob. Leman Russ dropped its LC and switched it for heavy bolter, but kept extra armor (5 bucks says it'll be dead before turn 3 though ) 1st platoon goes first with its meltas/meltabombs, with straken's CCS and the GL equipped PCS following close behind for support. 2nd Platoon might follow them, or set up shop with the HWS and the baby sitting PCS depending on the situation. Leman Russ will go where its needed, and provide fire support. I would like to put a few more plasma guns on the board, but I dont really have the points or the space in the list to accomodate them. Only place that would make sense would be Straken's CCS, but if he's moving around providing orders, I'm not sure how much use they'll actually get. This list feels a bit more flexible, and I like it a lot more, but I'm still worried about the HWS being useless and running, as well as the Leman Russ possibly not being able to pull its weight. Other than that though I think this one is a major improvement thanks to your suggestions.

Any advice you guys have would be great. I dont have many more models though, so it'll most likely end up as long term advice. I have a few extra guardsmen, a Harker proxy, and a sentinel, but thats pretty much it. Long term plan is to keep up with a list that looks like this, as I love the idea of tons of guardsmen and a wall of AV14 to infuriate my enemies (it screws the meta at my store, as everyone runs tons of transports, and brings a ton of transport popping stuff. That stuff is useless against Russ's, so its wasted on guardsmen). I REALLY dont want to do Chimera/vet spam, but other than that I'm pretty open up to most strategies, so feel free to hammer away. Thanks for any help guys!

I don't think you'll need 2 CCS. From personal experience, you don't really need vox casters. Just throw in a Commissar and you'll pass tests no problem. I'd also add PWs in the Gunline blob, and Commissar, just in the event that it does get assaulted.

Also, a HWS would be good to go along with the Gunline. Give them Bring it down and you can still use your flashlights on whatever infantry is within range.

Also, that Russ is going to be a huge target being the only one.

To be honest, you do not want Straken anywhere near close combat. The Fearless wounds alone will probably kill the squad after the first round.... and your Bodyguards will die faster than you think, as they will be taking wounds before using their ability. Just be ready to be underwhelmed if you get Straken in combat with a real CC squad. He can be made decent, but we are talking a Medic, Standard, and Nork with two Melta guns. And then I still wouldn't throw him in close combat unless he is following up an exsisting melee.

Another tactical flaw you will be making is A) putting a LC and Extra Armor on the LRBT and B) 'bubble wrapping' it.

The battle cannon is a poor weapon to use against any vehicles due to the rules of using the scatter dice to hit and the rule of if the center hole of the bast marker is not over the vehicle, the attack is half strength. You do still get to roll a second d6 for armor penetration, but you only keep the highest dice.
The LC at the points it costs for a single BS 3 shot is not worth it. LRBTs are anti-infantry vehicles, besides the Vanquisher...and that thing is /waaaaay/ to expensive for long range AT.

The 'Bubble wrapping' is a poor choice with a tank that should be moving 6" every turn. You can not move through your own figs, as per the rules. You can shoot through them just fine. You want your blob to follow behind your LRBT and get cover from it or lead in front of your LRBT as a skirmish line, possibily giving /it/ a cover save. But any unit attacking the vehicle in CC, from any side, always counts as attacking the rear.

And this is just incase your mis-reading the rules for Straken... the Counter-Charge ability does /not/ give your guys Furious Charge. You only get Furious Charge when you Charge. Counter Charge just takes away the bonus charge attack of your opponent for charging you, but if they have Furious Charge, they still get all the effects for it.

Also know you can not fire any rapid fire weapon and charge... and lasguns are rapid fire weapons.

Use any extra points you have to give the CCS a LC instead of a AC and fill in the PCS and CCS special weapon slots.

Good luck, hope this helps.

BlkTom wrote:Counter Charge just takes away the bonus charge attack of your opponent for charging you

Excuse me, but you wrong here. Counter Charge gives +1 attack to defending unit. It doesn't affect charging unit.

If I may be so bold, my opinion is that this is not a good "starter list". I play the guard and every game I still learn something new. If this is your entry into the guard I would suggest going bland and big! That way you can both try out different units and have the numbers to survive making some mistakes. Plus a foot horde of guardsmen is super funtastic. I won't tell you what to take, but I'll just mention that if you drop straken, the bodyguards the second ccs, and combine the two platoons into one, you have over 200 points to spend on some vets, more heavy weapons etc...

Good luck

kungfujew wrote:If I may be so bold, my opinion is that this is not a good "starter list". I play the guard and every game I still learn something new. If this is your entry into the guard I would suggest going bland and big! That way you can both try out different units and have the numbers to survive making some mistakes. Plus a foot horde of guardsmen is super funtastic. I won't tell you what to take, but I'll just mention that if you drop straken, the bodyguards the second ccs, and combine the two platoons into one, you have over 200 points to spend on some vets, more heavy weapons etc...

Good luck

While this is a good suggestion, I sadly dont have the models to pull it off. As it sits now, I'm already maxed out at what I can take (modelwise, pts wise I could easily switch things around and get about 30 more guys on the table). I picked up a second commisar today, which I deffinitely plan on using, but I dont have anymore regular guardsmen to field more platoons. I'm thinking about seperating the HW's into their own squad, but I just dont see them lasting long as I only have 3. Without orders they'll be kind of useless, or even worse, run away. I'm working on the second draft now, and I'll edit the OP once I'm done with it.

The other thing is that I've watched several games with IG at my store, and I've seen bare infantry squads in action, they die so quickly it isnt even funny. Yes, they'll still die quickly with good weapons, but I'm hoping to at least put out some more dakka before they go down. I also figured the only way I'm going to learn is to jump in there and do it, so I tried to pick stuff that would let me learn all the rules in a single game. Voxes will probably go though, as now that I have a second commisar, 2nd platoon wont really need them anymore.

BlkTom wrote:
Snip

I hope I dont come across as a jerk in this post, as I'm just going to explain why some things are the way they are. You had a lot of good advice, and I'm considering several things you came up with. I think you just misunderstood what I said some of my guys would be doing (looking at the OP, I wasnt very clear on what some units are doing, I'll have to fix that, thankfully your post pointed a lot of it out)

Straken won't be charging into combat unless I have to mop up a weakened squad (like 2 or 3 tactical marines size) I'm not going to be charging him into dedicated assault units (I may be new but I'm not a complete idiot ) The main reason I'm taking him is to make my blobs tougher, and give them the bonus Initiative on the charge. I know you cant use Furious Charge and Counterattack at the same time, but both are very useful for what I'm planning to do, so I figured his points amount was worth it. I threw the flamers on him just as something for him to do as I didnt really have a good spot to put them. I know he can't take on whole units on his own, but he does need to be close to the front line to be useful. His squad and the PCS will be walking behind the blob, not at the front, anyways, so he should be good. As a random question, how does countercharging work? Not the rule straken gives, but like when you charge a second unit in to help when your first one gets bogged down(aka, charging straken's squad into my blob to help them kill something) Is this something in 5th ed or this just a rumour I'm hearing from 6th?

Secondly, when I mentioned the first blob either shooting or charging, what I meant is that I know I can only do 1 of the 2 per turn. In the games I watched, I learned that there are some units this blob could take with ease (stuff like a small tactical squad for example) and other stuff where you'd want to stand back and just pound him with las gun fire (Like that Draigo guy who has the shockwave that kills all guys within 6 inches of him) I know if I shoot the lasguns I cant charge, I wrote the blob so that it could shoot OR assault. Here's hoping that works!

The Leman Russ shouldnt be hitting anything heavy, as thats the 1st platoons job (they've got 3 meltas and melta bombs) and to a lesser extent, the autocannons. However, I thought Vanilla LR's could pop rhinos fairly easy. I know it wont hurt something like a landraider, but the only players at my store who bring AV 14 are the other IG (and they routinely bring between 4 and 8 Leman Russes, which would demolish my list anyways, I wont be able to take them on for a while). Everyone else is either Dark Eldar with skimmers, or Space marines hiding in rhinos. I havent seen a normal LR used against them though, so I could very well be wrong in that regard. I'll probably switch the lascannon out, but I dont know if any other weapons that can go there would be any better. What would you suggest for it instead?
Also another thing, cant infantry move 6 inches anyways? Wouldn't that mean that they'd be able to keep up with a Russ going 6 inches a turn just fine? Especially if they're using "Move move move!", shouldn't they be moving faster? Bear with me on this part as I'm still learning all the rules that apply to this so I could easily have something wrong.

Finally, I'm thinking about leaving one PCS completely bare, and using them as a 30pts objective babystiter by having them use Incoming! and go to ground the whole game. That'd free up my second platoon to move up with the first, possibly even eliminating the need for the second CCS, as they'd be able to get orders from Straken as well. That'd let me push across the board with 60 or so infantry and a Leman Russ. Do you guys think this would be a more solid plan? I'll post a list reflecting this in the OP as soon as I'm done with it.

Thanks for all the help so far guys!

Your not sounding like a jerk at all, MrMoustaffa. In fact, most people say I am the one who comes across as a jerk most of the time.

Phaeton wrote:

BlkTom wrote:Counter Charge just takes away the bonus charge attack of your opponent for charging you

Excuse me, but you wrong here. Counter Charge gives +1 attack to defending unit. It doesn't affect charging unit.

Correct. I should have looked it up before posting...

Here is the FAQ on it from the GW game site.

Universal Special Rules
Q: Does a unit that successfully passes its counter-attack
Leadership test count as charging for all purposes? (p74)
A: No. They just gain the +1 assault bonus to their
Attacks.
Q: If a unit with the Counter-attack special rule passes
its Leadership test, does it count as assaulting (and so
would gain the bonuses from special rules like Furious
Charge) and can defensive grenades be used against
them? (p74)
A: No to both questions.

Not the rule straken gives, but like when you charge a second unit in to help when your first one gets bogged down(aka, charging straken's squad into my blob to help them kill something) Is this something in 5th ed or this just a rumour I'm hearing from 6th?

If your saying 'charge into an exsisting combat', you can't, as it is under the list of "Disallowed Assaults" (pg 33 BRB) That is indeed one of the 'rumored' changes to 6th Ed is to allow multiple 'waves' of assaulting units into an exsisting combat, as the following unit is suppose to attack at Init 10. If your saying 'two or more units charge at the same time', that is also not allowed in 5th Ed, as you move one unit at a time. If a enemy unit is in CC with another unit, even if it is not resolved (because your still moving units), you still can't assault them because they are already in assault. You /can/ assault multiple enemy units with a single unit, as the rules state that you /must/ move to the closest enemy model when you assault. These rules are covered on pg 41 BRB under 'Multiple Combats'. Just read over the assault rules carefully, starting on page 33 BRB. As for 6th Ed, it might be 6 months before it comes out, might be sooner or later. If you really want to, you /could/ wait till then. Then you and everyone else can learn the new rules together, which might be less confusing for you. The IG Codex will still be good for awhile, as it will probably be one of the last codexs replaced in 6th Ed, if they even bother to replace it.

I'll probably switch the lascannon out, but I dont know if any other weapons that can go there would be any better. What would you suggest for it instead?

Magnets are your friends if you really want options, but to be honest, the standard heavy bolter works fine with the standard LRBT. Forge World also makes turrets if you want further customization of LRBT types without having to get a new model.

Also another thing, cant infantry move 6 inches anyways? Wouldn't that mean that they'd be able to keep up with a Russ going 6 inches a turn just fine? Especially if they're using "Move move move!", shouldn't they be moving faster? Bear with me on this part as I'm still learning all the rules that apply to this so I could easily have something wrong.

Under the rules, your only allowed to move one unit at a time, and your not allowed to move through friendly units... in fact, you can't move through a space smaller than your base. If you 'bubble wrap' your LRBT (surround it with troops), you would need to move the troops and end up with a roughly 12" long gap the size of your LRBT. Then, when you get into close combat, you have to move as close as you can to the enemy, but only troops within 2" of the enemy count for close combat. As your probably realizing, the gymnastics that you have to go through to make this work are very hard /and/ your actually hurting your blob's close combat effectivness doing so. I hope this is a clearer answer.