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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/01/26 08:13:28
Subject: Can someone explain the Chaos Gods to me?
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Ultramarine Scout with Sniper Rifle
NJ
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So I was painting some of my CSM and I was wondering about the Chaos Gods.
- Are they actually "Gods" like in the biblical sense, or are they just super powerful demons?
- If they are actual gods, does that mean that there's a good god or something? I know the Imperium worships the Emperor as a god but I thought that was partially due to his psychic powers and partially due to his cult of personality, right?
- While we're on the topic of psychic powers, what's the deal with that? Is that like some invention of the far future or in the world of Warhammer 40k do these powers get invented or something?
- Can you kill the Chaos Gods? Furthermore, what stops the Chaos Gods from killing all of mankind, if they are really so powerful and evil?
- One last question about the CSM... are they like the champions of the Chaos gods or like their playthings? I can't really figure it out.
Thanks for any help
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/01/26 08:22:36
Subject: Can someone explain the Chaos Gods to me?
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Frenzied Berserker Terminator
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1. Its really depends about the biblical one. Yes to both. They are worshiped like a god, are immortal, and have their own daemons. But I'm pretty sure they are daemons themselves.
2. No I dont think there is a good god, some of the Eldar ones might be though, not sure.
3. Psychic powers are basically mind control, a psyker and use psychic powers to alter reality. Psychic powers are fuelled by the warp, the plane in which the chaos gods reside.
4. I'm pretty sure you cant kill the chaos gods. Also supposedly the Emperor is stopping the daemons from entering the materium with his psychic power.
5. Both.
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Veteran Sergeant wrote:In the grim darkness of the far future, the guy with a rifle is the weakest man on the battlefield, left to quake in terror, hoping the two or three shots he gets do the job before somebody runs screaming across the battlefield to hit him with an energized stick.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/440996.page
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/01/26 08:45:49
Subject: Can someone explain the Chaos Gods to me?
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Speedy Swiftclaw Biker
Portsmouth
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Dr. Spaceman wrote:So I was painting some of my CSM and I was wondering about the Chaos Gods.
- Are they actually "Gods" like in the biblical sense, or are they just super powerful demons?
- If they are actual gods, does that mean that there's a good god or something? I know the Imperium worships the Emperor as a god but I thought that was partially due to his psychic powers and partially due to his cult of personality, right?
- While we're on the topic of psychic powers, what's the deal with that? Is that like some invention of the far future or in the world of Warhammer 40k do these powers get invented or something?
- Can you kill the Chaos Gods? Furthermore, what stops the Chaos Gods from killing all of mankind, if they are really so powerful and evil?
- One last question about the CSM... are they like the champions of the Chaos gods or like their playthings? I can't really figure it out.
Thanks for any help 
I think the 'Chaos Gods' were the first real big demon entities and over time have eventually acended even past that to become more powerful that anything else.
Power like this though comes at a price and further to this cannot exist in the matirial world as we know it.
To do this they need vessels, to actually get anything done, like say...HORUS.
The Emperor knew of the existence of these 'Gods' and struck a deal with them for a measure of their power, but upon gaining this power the Emperor betrayed the Chaos 'Gods' and sought of ways to stop them from getting their power back from him.
Unfortunatly for the good guys, the Chaos 'Gods' have always been there and are eternal, so no they cannot be killed
They can only be prevented now and again from getting their own way.
I do not belive there is a 'Good' God in the sense, but seeing as the Emperor has their power and due to his Charisma over the human race i would say that he is very close to being the 'Good' God.
At the moment the only thing stopping the Chaos 'Gods' from doing what they want, is the Golden Throne.
The Golden throne works like a Librarians Psychic Hood and Amplifies the Psychic potential of the Emperor...a lot.
So in theory the Emperor is stopping the Chaos 'Gods' from destoying everything.
As to the CSM, they follow one of or all of the Chaos Gods and in effect spread their influence, they also act as Vessels for their respective 'Gods' minions and champions
Any thoughts?
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"You strive for victory. That is obvious. What may be less obvious is the nature of victory. There are circumstances in which you can destroy the enemy utterly, without loss to your own forces, and yet the victory may be his. In all situations, you must first decide on the nature of victory, and then take steps to secure it. Avoid the instinct of fight first and think later." ( Leman Russ ) |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/01/26 10:11:31
Subject: Can someone explain the Chaos Gods to me?
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Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon
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Dr. Spaceman wrote: - Are they actually "Gods" like in the biblical sense, or are they just super powerful demons? Quite the opposite. According to the Bible, God is eternal, immutable and transcendent. He (She? It?) existed before the physical Universe, which He created, and before time itself. The Gods in the Warp (Kaine, Isha, Gork & Mork, The Chaos Gods...) are byproducts of the psyche of millions of living beings. Unlike the biblical God, they were created, and don't pre-exist the material realm. As for demons, in 40k they are either warp denizens or quasi-independent fragments of a Warp God. In Christianity/Judaism/Islam it's a tad more confusing, let's just say they're spiritual bad stuff. - If they are actual gods, does that mean that there's a good god or something? I know the Imperium worships the Emperor as a god but I thought that was partially due to his psychic powers and partially due to his cult of personality, right?
This is a Lovecraftian setting, in the sense that god exists, but is out to eat us alive But no, I think there can be 'good' gods. The Eldar, for example, gave themselves gods that suited their psyche perfectly, allowing them to live in harmony with the material realm (Slaneesh notwithstanding). Same can be said for Orks. The Emperor is a different thing. He's a living human attempting to carve itself a place amongst the Gods. The Chaos Gods (who claim humanity for themselves) feel threatened by his presence and deem him an upstart, an outsider to the warp. - While we're on the topic of psychic powers, what's the deal with that? Is that like some invention of the far future or in the world of Warhammer 40k do these powers get invented or something?
Telepathy, telekinesis, remote sight, reality-shifting... you name it. In 40k, these powers come naturally to certain minds who are able to tap into the warp to achieve the impossible. However mastering them requires a degree of training, which is described as half technical study, half spiritual practise. So yes, it's something between natural occurrence and magical science of the future. - Can you kill the Chaos Gods? Furthermore, what stops the Chaos Gods from killing all of mankind, if they are really so powerful and evil?
The Chaos Gods' plan (assuming there's one) is never fully detailed, but it doesn't involve killing all of mankind, just sinking it into enthropy, ruin and uncertainty, so as to strenghten their foothold in both the Warp and the material realm. It might be possible to kill a Chaos God, by removing the emotions he/she/it relies on. The Emperor was set on it by establishing an Eternal Empire ala "God-Emperor of Dune" which would rout out enthropy and uncertainty forever. - One last question about the CSM... are they like the champions of the Chaos gods or like their playthings? I can't really figure it out.
As JohnnoM and 81Northman said before me, both.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/01/26 10:12:08
War does not determine who is right - only who is left. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/01/26 10:21:27
Subject: Re:Can someone explain the Chaos Gods to me?
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Mutating Changebringer
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Though the Chaos Gods aren't "good" they aren't "evil" either.
For instance Nurgle is the god of life and death. He is empowered by decay, growth and all that those two words can encompass.
Tzeentch is fate and knowlege. He is empowered by things like learning, evolution, art (in some forms) and writing.
Slaanesh is the god of excess. People tend to think of him/her as the god of pleasure and pain but thats only one aspect of his realm.
Khorne is... well... violence.
The Libre Chaotica books give a massive overview of the gods and their followers. Though they are based in the Fantasy world, the authors do visit the 40k universe.
Which is as far as I know the only crossing of the two game worlds in the BL publications.
(There is a cross universe situation of the Dark Elf weapons gained in the Isle of Albion campaign, and of course the fact the High Elves live on an island mysteriously shaped like an impact crater)
A good example of how the gods can be powered by the simple things in the material realm, imagine a person smoking a cigarette. The cigarette is burning and changing (Tzeentch).
The cigarette brings pleasure to the smoker (Slaanesh) and pollutes his lungs (Nurgle) and if the smoker runs out of cigarettes he will rage (Khorne).
Smoking empowers the Choas Gods! Don't smoke!
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/01/26 10:26:03
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/01/26 10:26:25
Subject: Re:Can someone explain the Chaos Gods to me?
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Helpful Sophotect
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The chaos gods may not be "good" or "evil," but their current expressions are certainly quite malevolent. Perhaps this isn't their fault - after all, it was the Old Ones and their war with the C'Tan that transformed the Warp from a realm of energetic abstraction to hell. The motivations of the chaos gods aren't entirely clear. maybe they've been driven insane by the current state of the Empyrian and want to destroy everything? Maybe they want revenge against the material beings that ruined their home? Maybe they have some plan for fixing the Warp that requires the destruction of all material life? Maybe they are beings born of the Warp's current damaged state and they aren't anything but malevolence incarnate? Either way, don't make the mistake of thinking that just because you can see some of the chaos gods through rose-colored glasses - Slaanesh as a god of pleasure, Nurgle as a god of life cycles, Khorne as a god of struggle and heroism - that there is anything nice about the chaos gods as they are now. They want nothing less than to pervert and destroy everything. They're the most villainous villains of the setting.
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The 12th Dat'ya Expeditionary Cadre
My P&M blog - in which I chronicle the transformation of a battered windfall of models into an awesome addition to my Blood Angels force (hopefully) - can be found here: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/431820.page.
======Begin Dakka Code======
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/01/26 10:36:39
Subject: Can someone explain the Chaos Gods to me?
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Resolute Ultramarine Honor Guard
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Dr. Spaceman wrote:S
- Are they actually "Gods" like in the biblical sense, or are they just super powerful demons?
They can't be gods in biblical sense because they don't have the ultimate power. But they are very powerful because they are fueled by emotions of every living creature in the galaxy ( primary Mankind ) and the fact that they have Daemon army's under their command. But I thin kthat they are Daemons themselves only as powerful as  .
- If they are actual gods, does that mean that there's a good god or something? I know the Imperium worships the Emperor as a god but I thought that was partially due to his psychic powers and partially due to his cult of personality, right?
Eldar had several gods, most of them were killed, Khane was destroyed into thousands of little fragments ( those fragments are Avatar of Khane according to Eldar believes ) adn their goddess Isha, goddess healing, fertility and the harvest, is a personal prisoner of his and keep her as a pet, locked in cage in his garden.
- While we're on the topic of psychic powers, what's the deal with that? Is that like some invention of the far future or in the world of Warhammer 40k do these powers get invented or something?
Psychic powers are basically and individual using his mind to alter pur reality to his powers. Psychic powers are directly connected to Warp and all of psyker's power comes from there.
- Can you kill the Chaos Gods? Furthermore, what stops the Chaos Gods from killing all of mankind, if they are really so powerful and evil?
Only a Chaos God can kill a Chaos God.
- One last question about the CSM... are they like the champions of the Chaos gods or like their playthings? I can't really figure it out.
Both, Chaos Gods treat them like both champions and toys.
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For Emperor and Imperium!!!!
None shall stand against the Crusade of the Righteous!!!
Kanluwen wrote: "I like the Tau. I just don't like people misconstruing things to say that it means that they're somehow a huge galactic threat. They're not. They're a threat to the Imperium of Man like sharks are a threat to the US Army."
"Pain is temporary, honor is forever"
Emperor of Mankind:
"The day I have a sit-down with a pansy elf, magic mushroom, or commie frog is the day I put a bolt shell in my head."
in your name it shall be done"
My YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/2SSSR2
Viersche wrote:
Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
the Emperor might be the greatest psyker that ever lived, but he doesn't have the specialized training that a Grey Knight has. Also he doesn't have a Grey Knight's unshakable faith in the Emperor.
The Emperor doesn't have a GKs unshakable faith in the Emperor which is....basically himself?
Ronin wrote:
"Brother Coa (and the OP Tadashi) is like, the biggest IoM fanboy I can think of here. It's like he IS from the Imperium, sent back in time and across dimensions."
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/01/26 11:30:23
Subject: Can someone explain the Chaos Gods to me?
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Alluring Sorcerer of Slaanesh
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81Northman wrote:The Emperor knew of the existence of these 'Gods' and struck a deal with them for a measure of their power, but upon gaining this power the Emperor betrayed the Chaos 'Gods' and sought of ways to stop them from getting their power back from him.
Chaos lies and propaganda to convert the weak willed and simple minded.
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No pity, no remorse, no shoes |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/01/26 11:44:28
Subject: Can someone explain the Chaos Gods to me?
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Mutated Chosen Chaos Marine
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Dr. Spaceman wrote:So I was painting some of my CSM and I was wondering about the Chaos Gods.
- Are they actually "Gods" like in the biblical sense, or are they just super powerful demons?
They aren't a biblical kind of god anyway, as they rely on sentient beings for sustenance. I guess that they could be called super powerful daemons, since there are a few Undivided daemons that also have a fair amount of power, enough to be worshipped on their own.
- If they are actual gods, does that mean that there's a good god or something? I know the Imperium worships the Emperor as a god but I thought that was partially due to his psychic powers and partially due to his cult of personality, right?
The bad gods are the good gods. Khorne is the god of honour, Nurgle is the god of life, Tzeentch is the god of hope and Slaanesh is the god of love. There's just far more bad than good in the galaxy.
- While we're on the topic of psychic powers, what's the deal with that? Is that like some invention of the far future or in the world of Warhammer 40k do these powers get invented or something?
Psykers draw the power of the Warp into themselves to alter the material universe. They're thought to be the next stage of human evolution by some.
- Can you kill the Chaos Gods? Furthermore, what stops the Chaos Gods from killing all of mankind, if they are really so powerful and evil?
The Chaos Gods theoretically could be killed if every being in a species they put their power into were to die fast enough. They don't kill mankind because they don't want to, and they're more concerned about killing each other anyway.
- One last question about the CSM... are they like the champions of the Chaos gods or like their playthings? I can't really figure it out.
Thanks for any help 
I think a line about Tzeentch sums this one up best: 'A useful pawn may be protected so that he can be used again.' The gods give their blessings to those that prove useful to them, but they don't exactly care what blessings they give, so both would be the best answer. Automatically Appended Next Post: Pilau Rice wrote:81Northman wrote:The Emperor knew of the existence of these 'Gods' and struck a deal with them for a measure of their power, but upon gaining this power the Emperor betrayed the Chaos 'Gods' and sought of ways to stop them from getting their power back from him.
Chaos lies and propaganda to convert the weak willed and simple minded.
Imperial propaganda to prevent the weak willed and simple minded from treading the path to power.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/01/26 11:45:59
Arguing with some people is like playing chess with a pigeon. You can play the best chess in the world, but at the end of the day the pigeon will still knock all the pieces off the board and then gak all over it. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/01/26 11:48:55
Subject: Can someone explain the Chaos Gods to me?
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Alluring Sorcerer of Slaanesh
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Durza wrote:Pilau Rice wrote:
Chaos lies and propaganda to convert the weak willed and simple minded.
Imperial propaganda to prevent the weak willed and simple minded from treading the path to power.
Point proven Heretical Dog, taste Bolter
oh wait, better yet, let me correct this for you
Durza wrote:Imperial propaganda to assist the weak willed and simple minded in treading the path to spawndom.
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No pity, no remorse, no shoes |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/01/26 11:54:42
Subject: Can someone explain the Chaos Gods to me?
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Mutated Chosen Chaos Marine
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Wait, why does the Imperium want people turning into Spawn?
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Arguing with some people is like playing chess with a pigeon. You can play the best chess in the world, but at the end of the day the pigeon will still knock all the pieces off the board and then gak all over it. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/01/26 11:59:11
Subject: Can someone explain the Chaos Gods to me?
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Alluring Sorcerer of Slaanesh
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Durza wrote:Wait, why does the Imperium want people turning into Spawn?
Because the weak willed and simple minded that would want to turn to Chaos deserve no lesser fate.
No Daemonprincehood for you mere smelly mortal
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No pity, no remorse, no shoes |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/01/26 16:41:36
Subject: Can someone explain the Chaos Gods to me?
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Daemonic Dreadnought
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- Are they actually "Gods" like in the biblical sense, or are they just super powerful demons?
Biblical sense? No. They are not omnipotent, they are not the alpha nor omega. They were spawned by the emotions of species that were/are in tune with the warp.
- If they are actual gods, does that mean that there's a good god or something? I know the Imperium worships the Emperor as a god but I thought that was partially due to his psychic powers and partially due to his cult of personality, right?
They represent the good and the bad so in essence they are "good" as well as "evil." Ex. Someone who is so obsessed with perfection (like making a perfect statue, painting, seeking perfection in a martial art, etc.) is just as likely to attract the attention of Slaanesh as BDSM sex addict. Or someone who has amazing martial prowess and is honorable has just a good of a chance to attract Khorne as does a mindless killing fiend. I suppose the only truly "good" god may be the eldar goddess Isha.
- While we're on the topic of psychic powers, what's the deal with that? Is that like some invention of the far future or in the world of Warhammer 40k do these powers get invented or something?
Psychic powers arise from those who can use and manifest the energies of the warp. It's more of a genetic thing, a thing that mankind has/is evolved/evolving into being able to do.
- Can you kill the Chaos Gods? Furthermore, what stops the Chaos Gods from killing all of mankind, if they are really so powerful and evil?
The chaos gods have already a tremendous amount of difficulty entering real space through fragments of themselves (daemons I believe are fractions of the whole, as in a nurgling is a fragment of Nurgle). Now as to killing the gods? There are ways. Another god can kill a god. There are spells that can break a daemon so hard that it can never put itself back together so theoretically you could painfully and slowly break the gods by breaking their individual trillions of fragments we call daemons. And of course if all species that have a presence in the warp whose emotions feed the chaos gods die, then the gods themselves will die.
- One last question about the CSM... are they like the champions of the Chaos gods or like their playthings? I can't really figure it out.
Both, but seemingly more the later (just have to look at Failbadon the Armless).
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Gods? There are no gods. Merely existences, obstacles to overcome.
"And what if I told you the Wolves tried to bring a Legion to heel once before? What if that Legion sent Russ and his dogs running, too ashamed to write down their defeat in Imperial archives?" - ADB |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/01/26 17:00:11
Subject: Can someone explain the Chaos Gods to me?
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Perfect Shot Black Templar Predator Pilot
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With regard to the last question, Lucius is an example of how a CSM can be both champion and plaything of the Gods.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/01/26 22:21:40
Subject: Can someone explain the Chaos Gods to me?
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Tinkering Tech-Priest
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- Are they actually "Gods" like in the biblical sense, or are they just super powerful demons?
Powerful entities - they are not even alive nor are the daemons and you cant kill them and they are not evil or good they just exist
Imagine that each god is a concept like -
Khorne: bloodlust, war, death, blood, skulls
Tzeentch: change, fate, mutation, knowledge
Nurgle: plague, despair, disease, life
Slaanesh: lust, pleasure, excess
that is Daemons, when you fight a Blood letter you are not fighting a daemon or some creature you are fighting a concept of war ....remember the gods are also good like Khorne also represents honour and fair fighting (magic is wrong).
These concept feed on the emotions and psyche of all living creatures but beacuse humans feed them the most and humans are erm penis heads they are usually seen as evil.
- If they are actual gods, does that mean that there's a good god or something? I know the Imperium worships the Emperor as a god but I thought that was partially due to his psychic powers and partially due to his cult of personality, right?
yup but its the same thing Khorne is honour Slaanesh is beauty Nurgle is life etc.....(technically Nurgle is a good god since he loves you)
- While we're on the topic of psychic powers, what's the deal with that? Is that like some invention of the far future or in the world of Warhammer 40k do these powers get invented or something?
Psychic powers imo in 40k universe is basically using the warp.....imagine accessing the warp so you can shoot lightning....its the reason why a lot of psykers turn into portals for daemons.
- Can you kill the Chaos Gods? Furthermore, what stops the Chaos Gods from killing all of mankind, if they are really so powerful and evil?
Can you kill a concept?
- One last question about the CSM... are they like the champions of the Chaos gods or like their playthings? I can't really figure it out.
Yes and No they are basically space marine who sided with Horus during the big family fued and after Horus got killed they ran away to the only place that would accept them....eye of terror....the gods don't really care about them heck the gods don't care, they just exist and feed...
remember not all CSM worship chaos.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/01/26 22:25:08
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/01/26 22:29:39
Subject: Can someone explain the Chaos Gods to me?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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yevix wrote:remember not all CSM worship chaos.
I think you meant Renegades.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/01/26 22:33:30
Subject: Can someone explain the Chaos Gods to me?
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Tinkering Tech-Priest
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Hyd wrote:yevix wrote:remember not all CSM worship chaos.
I think you meant Renegades.
no I know what I meant... some see chaos as a tool or a means to an end like Ahriman etc....just because you use chaos and summon daemons etc doesnt mean you worship them, like Relictor marines who used daemon weapons....
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/01/27 01:40:21
Subject: Re:Can someone explain the Chaos Gods to me?
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Long-Range Ultramarine Land Speeder Pilot
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From my understanding the Chaos gods are very powerful beings, but not gods in a biblical sense. Beings can ascend to 40k 'godhood' via being very powerful entities. The more they are worshiped, the more powerful they become in the warp. The chaos gods therefore have a very real reason to extend their will and vie for power because by throwing their weight around they gain followers, and then strength.
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4000pts |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/01/27 01:43:10
Subject: Can someone explain the Chaos Gods to me?
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Renegade Inquisitor de Marche
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yevix wrote:Hyd wrote:yevix wrote:remember not all CSM worship chaos.
I think you meant Renegades.
no I know what I meant... some see chaos as a tool or a means to an end like Ahriman etc....just because you use chaos and summon daemons etc doesnt mean you worship them, like Relictor marines who used daemon weapons....
So.
Not all CSM actually worship them. Some see them as tools for a purpose to further their own ends.
Whereas some CSM do worship them as gods.
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Dakka Bingo! By Ouze
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Seal up your lips and give no words but mum.
Equip, Reload. Do violence.
Watch for Gerry. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/01/27 01:43:19
Subject: Re:Can someone explain the Chaos Gods to me?
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Long-Range Ultramarine Land Speeder Pilot
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Also, in regards to becoming gods, Slaanesh did not become a fully powerful chaos god unti after the other three. There is also speculation that should the Emperor of Man die he would be reborn as 'god' in the warp.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/01/27 01:47:08
Subject: Can someone explain the Chaos Gods to me?
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Tinkering Tech-Priest
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purplefood wrote:yevix wrote:Hyd wrote:yevix wrote:remember not all CSM worship chaos.
I think you meant Renegades.
no I know what I meant... some see chaos as a tool or a means to an end like Ahriman etc....just because you use chaos and summon daemons etc doesnt mean you worship them, like Relictor marines who used daemon weapons....
So.
Not all CSM actually worship them. Some see them as tools for a purpose to further their own ends.
Whereas some CSM do worship them as gods.
That is exactly what I said?????
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/01/27 07:00:32
Subject: Can someone explain the Chaos Gods to me?
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Dakka Veteran
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Dr. Spaceman wrote:So I was painting some of my CSM and I was wondering about the Chaos Gods.
- Are they actually "Gods" like in the biblical sense, or are they just super powerful demons?
It's not a question to answer since its one that's largely depending on what you define a 'god' as. In the biblical sense? No, I don't think they would qualify, since I'm pretty sure the biblical god isn't a reality-corrupting extradimensional entity that is the coalescing of countless thoughts, emotions and souls of living beings. At least, not as it is believed.
Besides, why should the 'biblical' definition of god be any different from any other religion's perspective? Or even mythological?
- If they are actual gods, does that mean that there's a good god or something? I know the Imperium worships the Emperor as a god but I thought that was partially due to his psychic powers and partially due to his cult of personality, right?
Again this is more a 'point of view' question - Chaos is, by its nature, not intrinsically good or evil - it just is, and it's effects largely stem from the thoughts and feelings of sentient beings (It is no more good or evil than we are.)
and yes, in theory there is a 'good' god or good gods, but they may not either exist in a sentient, self aware state the way the Chaos gods (or Ork gods) do. What the Emperor is/isn't is another one of those 'depends on where you look' sort of things, since some still adhere to the earlire fluff about the Star child and that influences the issue greatly.
- While we're on the topic of psychic powers, what's the deal with that? Is that like some invention of the far future or in the world of Warhammer 40k do these powers get invented or something?
Psychic powers are simply sentient beings with a sufficiently strong connection tapping an extradimensional source of power and shaping it in various ways to their own ends/needs. Thought and emotion shapes the warp, and through that a person can use the warp to shape reality as well.
- Can you kill the Chaos Gods? Furthermore, what stops the Chaos Gods from killing all of mankind, if they are really so powerful and evil?
In theory, they could die in the sense that if they are broken up into their component pieces or 'consumed' by a greater entity (if such a one existed) they would cease to exist in the form they are. Chaos Gods are, at their most basic, a sentient pyramid scheme. THey exist at the top of a hierarchy consisting of countless souls, thoughts, emotions and the like that make up living beings, various other warp entities (like daemons, which are extnesions of the gods.) and so forth.
And what stops them from killing mankind? Self interest is one. Killing off all living beings (including humanity) isn't really their goal. Chaos Gods exist because of sentient beings and feed off their thoughs/emotions./souls - and if they exist they can feed and empower those same Gods.
The other important limitation is tht the Chaos Gods exist in the warp, and it isn't a trivial or easy thing to breach into realspace to influence it -reality tends not to like such intrusions and fights against them, which is why daemons cannot easily exist in realspace without some sort of warp based connection to sustain them.
- One last question about the CSM... are they like the champions of the Chaos gods or like their playthings? I can't really figure it out.
Both. They're tools by which the Chaos Gods can influence and exert their powers in the material universe, as well as things to give them sustenance and pleasure.
Edit: My advice would be to find and read the 'Realms of Chaos' books pertaining to chaos - they're ab it older fluff so some of the details (like some of those pertaining to the Imperium) are no longer quite accurate, but the essential mechanisms pertaining to things like Chaos, daemons, and such remain mostly true (or at least seem to as far as the implications go in various fluff sources.)
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/01/27 07:05:44
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/01/27 07:34:32
Subject: Can someone explain the Chaos Gods to me?
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Fanatic with Madcap Mushrooms
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As stated earlier, the Chaos Gods can reflect positive emotions.
Khorne values honor, Slaanesh, enjoyment, Tzeentch, knowledge and Nurgle, Life.
However, after the Old Ones war with the C'Tan (not sure if canon anymore, what with the new Necron book) the violence that spread throughout realspace in turn affected the warp.
The Warp is a reflection of the emotions of certain warp-linked races, such as the Orks, the Eldar, Humans, etc. While only some members of these races are psykers, in the sense that they have psychic powers, (Eldar and Orks are almost entirely psychic societies) they are all intrinsically linked with the Warp. Anytime an emotion is evoked in one of these creatures, that emotion is reflected back in the Warp.
As too many things can be bad, so can the emotional energy. Valor can lead to Anger, Enjoyment becomes Excess, Thirst for Knowledge becomes a quest for Power and Hope and Life lead to Despair and Death. Ergo, the Gods are really just the 4 major archetypes of emotion in the "normal" universe, grown so powerful as to become considered gods.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/01/27 11:40:15
Subject: Can someone explain the Chaos Gods to me?
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Sister Oh-So Repentia
South Africa
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Just thought I would throw in a note, everyone has already addressed the issues at hand.
The chaos gods can be killed if all emotion that fuels them is removed. So basically if all life in the universe had to suddenly cease to exist except a group of extreme pacifist monks, khorn would effectively die. Of note though that dying process would really just be their presence shrinking until they become mere flotsam in the warp.
Similarly, the chaos gods are representations of the emotional state of the universe. As such, Khorne being the embodiment of rage, bloodshed and war is the greatest of the gods because there is just so much war and bloodshed in the universe. Additionally the bloodthirsty angry aspect of khorne is far greater than that of honor and martial pride because there is a lot more cutthroat bloodshed than honorable fighting in the universe. If the universe suddenly shifted to some kind of pure honorable warfare (odd concept I know) the "good" aspects of khorn would become far more prevalent.
As for their goals, I believe they are actually inherently self destructing. Their nature requires them to destroy life in the universe though bloodshed and disease and such. Despite then needing the emotions of the living from the material realm. An example is shown in when they invade a world generally the local population dies. This would be completely contrary to a goal of attempting to gain more power or control over the material realm. However it would fit with them being effectively slaves to their nature. In the event that they do succeed in invading the material realm completely. It stands to reason that eventually enough of the living would die which would alter the chaos gods natures to such an extent that they would gain a new goal and direction as their nature would shift and change. In effect the warp would also become far less chaotic as the number of living emotions decreases dramatically.
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Being a good bad guy is like being a photographer, you have to wait for the right moment. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/01/28 01:00:42
Subject: Can someone explain the Chaos Gods to me?
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Eternally-Stimulated Slaanesh Dreadnought
rainbow dashing to your side
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their not gods, just the only daemons powerfull enough to make other daemons (daemons are made via the energy of other daemons) and not die in the process/ make enough of them to be signifiacnt.
they can be killed but it would take a being as/more powerfull as them to do it *cough* starchild *cough*. they cant just walk into the universe and kill everything due to the emperor keeping them at bay with the golden throne with his awesomesauce mind powers
in 40K there's no such thing as a good god, even the eldar ones were donkey caves :3
and CSM are only pawns as the gods only use them as play things or to make them stronger. daemons on the other hand......
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/01/28 01:12:57
Subject: Can someone explain the Chaos Gods to me?
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Dakka Veteran
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There's at least one good god I know of, probably a lot more, though they're likely nowhere near as strong. I have at hand the story of Isha, who was captured by Nurgle. The chaos gods themselves are the culmination of psychic and subpsychic energies of all living things. I would not say they are invulnerable either. If EVERYONE (Including the nonhuman sentient races) were peaceful, Khorne would not exist as it is currently known, for example. Fear of death makes Nurgle what it is. I'm sure a good Eldar fan can tell us more of the lost and consumed gods, as well.
And the CSM are the MOST wonderful of playthings. Physically and mentally powerful, if only you can get them to crack...
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/01/30 18:11:52
Subject: Can someone explain the Chaos Gods to me?
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Sniping Hexa
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Dr. Spaceman wrote:So I was painting some of my CSM and I was wondering about the Chaos Gods.
- Are they actually "Gods" like in the biblical sense, or are they just super powerful demons?
- If they are actual gods, does that mean that there's a good god or something? I know the Imperium worships the Emperor as a god but I thought that was partially due to his psychic powers and partially due to his cult of personality, right?
- While we're on the topic of psychic powers, what's the deal with that? Is that like some invention of the far future or in the world of Warhammer 40k do these powers get invented or something?
- Can you kill the Chaos Gods? Furthermore, what stops the Chaos Gods from killing all of mankind, if they are really so powerful and evil?
- One last question about the CSM... are they like the champions of the Chaos gods or like their playthings? I can't really figure it out.
Thanks for any help 
- The Chaos "Gods" are Ultra powerful entities created in the warp from the emotions of most sentient beings. You decide if thats a "God" or not.
- All the chaos gods also contain "good" aspects (eg Khorne has honour and Nurgle love ect) but they are just vastly out shadowed by their "bad" aspects (because the 40k setting is not a "nice" place, eternal war has the same effect on the warp).
- All psychic powers are derived from the energy of the warp, with enough will power and strength to not be corrupted or killed you can do anything with it.
- If every sentient race were to become instantly emotionless or all to die at the same time then yes. If the 40k universe became a "nice" place the chaos gods would therefore also become "nice", not be "killed". The chaos gods dont kill humanity as it would be destroying most of the emotion which feeds them.
- Both, depending on the mood of the god.
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Inquisitor_Syphonious wrote:All I can say is... thank you vodo40k...
Zweischneid wrote:No way man. A Space Marine in itself is scary. But a Marine WITHOUT helmet wears at least 3-times as much plot-armour as a Marine with helmet. And heaven forbid if the Marine would also happen to have an intimidating looking, vertical scar. Then you're surly boned. Those guys are the worst. Not a chance I'd say.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/01/30 18:41:01
Subject: Can someone explain the Chaos Gods to me?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Dr. Spaceman wrote:So I was painting some of my CSM and I was wondering about the Chaos Gods.
- Are they actually "Gods" like in the biblical sense, or are they just super powerful demons?
Not in the Biblical sense; they are extremely powerful, but not omnipotent (at least outside of their own domains). However, it's worth noting that the Christian theological notion of 'god' as perfect and all-powerful is unusual across mythology, and almost certainly nonexistent in 40K. In the grim darkness of the far future, they're the only divinity out there.
As mentioned, they're not creator-beings. Sentient life created them, not the other way around. All the anger and violence in the galaxy got together in the Warp, and calls itself Khorne.
- If they are actual gods, does that mean that there's a good god or something? I know the Imperium worships the Emperor as a god but I thought that was partially due to his psychic powers and partially due to his cult of personality, right?
There are some good gods, or at least nicer ones than the Ruinous Powers. Most of them are dead, none of them are nearly as powerful, except possibly the Emperor His Own Self--and that's anything but certain.
It's entirely possible that the collective worship of trillions of people has elevated the Emperor to a divinity in his own right, if he wasn't one before. Whether the Emperor was always divine or whether he ascended after his interment in the Throne is a matter of debate in the Ecclesiarchy, and probably sparks up holy wars from time to time. His nature is unclear, and by design.
As mentioned, though, the chaos gods aren't 'evil gods' in the sense of opposing a 'good god.' They're all gods of their own domains, and they're antithetical to life as we know it because they want their own domain to prosper to the inclusion of all else. Tzeentch, for example, is perfectly content when a popular revolutionary movement topples a corrupt dictatorship--change is happening, and Tzeentch loves it when somebody makes a change. He doesn't like it, though, when the revolutionaries form a stable government in the dictator's wake. Tzeentch wants things to keep changing.
- While we're on the topic of psychic powers, what's the deal with that? Is that like some invention of the far future or in the world of Warhammer 40k do these powers get invented or something?
Not an invention, a mutation. Some people in 40K can 'tap into' the warp--the domain of the gods and demons, the well of all souls, the formless chaos where time, space, and causality have no meaning--and use it to create effects they want in the universe. It also often causes effects that they don't want. That's what happens when you tap into an insane unreality to get your way; a little like lighting a light bulb in your hand by sticking a finger in the socket.
- Can you kill the Chaos Gods? Furthermore, what stops the Chaos Gods from killing all of mankind, if they are really so powerful and evil?
Gods in 40K can be killed--Slaanesh personally massacred the Eldar pantheon--but there's probably nothing that's nearly powerful enough to kill a chaos god, aside from another chaos god. (They're also likely harder to kill than the Eldar deities were, since they draw power from more general sources.
The chaos gods do have difficulty acting in the physical realm, without the assistance of a mortal, which is part of the reason the chaos gods use slaves and cults. (It's also the reason untrained psykers are so feared, since it's easier for chaos to cross the gulf when you're making a bridge to the warp.) It's widely believed that the Emperor's efforts limit the chaos gods' actions more than usual.
The biggest restriction on their actions, though, is actually each other. All four are constantly working against the other three, and any one that was to expand the effort and power required to invade real space en masse would find itself vulnerable to be attacked by its rivals. They're too busy working against each other to turn their full attentions to the material universe.
If they ever were to completely conquer the galaxy and turn all of existence into a giant warp rift, it's likely that the result would be unsustainable in the long run. The chaos gods probably wouldn't hold back because of this, though.
- One last question about the CSM... are they like the champions of the Chaos gods or like their playthings? I can't really figure it out.
Both. Mortal servants of chaos serve their gods' machinations in life, and in death their souls go to their patron to be consumed.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/02/04 19:59:34
Subject: Can someone explain the Chaos Gods to me?
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Unhealthy Competition With Other Legions
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As for can you kill a chaos god, there are some eldar seers who believe a new god, a new eldar god of the dead, is brewing gaining power as their races dies.. When all the eldar finaly die, it will be born and slay Slaanesh.
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"He's doing the Lord's work. And by 'Lord' I mean Lord of Skulls." -Kenny Boucher
Prepare yourselves for the onslaught men. The enemy is waiting, but your Officers are courageous and your bayonettes sharp! I have at my disposal an entire army of Muskokans, tens of thousands of armour and artillery supporting millions upon tens of millions of the Imperium's finest fighting men with courage in their bellies, fire in their hearts and lasguns in their hands. Emperor show mercy to mine enemies, for as sure as the Imperium is vast, I will not!
- General Robert Thurgood of the Emperor's Own Lasguns before the landings at Traitor's Folly at the onset of the Chrislea's Road Campaign
"Pride goeth before the fall... to Slaanesh"
- ///name stricken///, former 'Emperor's Champion' |
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