| Author |
Message |
 |
|
|
|
|
Advert
|
Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
- No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
- Times and dates in your local timezone.
- Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
- Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
- Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now. |
|
 |
2012/01/26 09:11:07
Subject: Shadowseers, Grenades and Flip Belts
|
|
Jealous that Horus is Warmaster
|
Im going off the Dark Eldar entry for Harlequins here, I'd be surprised if it differed from the regular Eldar codex but you never know.
The Shadowseer upgrade grants the entire squad with assault grenades.
The Flip belts that all Harlequins possess (including Shadowseer) allow the unit to ignore difficult terrain.
Am I being a mere simpleton here (highly likely) in that Harlequins have no need of assault grenades?
Obviously the Shadowseer's Veil of Tears ability is a good reason to make the upgrade anyway.
Please try Dakkanauts to not divert this into a 'you shouldn't be taking Harlequins anyway, Incubi are better thread!'
Ta in advance
Boar
|
 Revilers 6,000pts
 Dark Eldar 4,000pts
 Cadian 229 regiment 3,000pts |
|
|
 |
|
2012/01/26 09:15:33
Subject: Shadowseers, Grenades and Flip Belts
|
|
Guarding Guardian
|
I may be wrong here, but the Eldar Codex says 'plasma grenades', which I am pretty sure are defensive, not assault, grenades. So maybe this is a typo in the Dark Eldar codex (I haven't had a chance to look through it myself)?
|
|
|
|
|
2012/01/26 09:29:50
Subject: Re:Shadowseers, Grenades and Flip Belts
|
|
Jealous that Horus is Warmaster
|
They are Plasma Grenades in the Dark Eldar entry as well.
Plasma Grenades are a form of assault grenade along with Frag and the like.
So still none the wiser!
|
Revilers 6,000pts
Dark Eldar 4,000pts
Cadian 229 regiment 3,000pts |
|
|
|
|
2012/01/26 09:50:26
Subject: Re:Shadowseers, Grenades and Flip Belts
|
|
[DCM]
Et In Arcadia Ego
|
IIRC this might be a hangover from 4th edition where models that were in terrain counted as having Initiative 10 when assaulted, unless the attackers had assault grenades.
... I think anyway, it's been a few years. 
|
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
|
|
|
|
|
2012/01/26 10:15:54
Subject: Re:Shadowseers, Grenades and Flip Belts
|
|
Wicked Warp Spider
|
reds8n wrote: IIRC this might be a hangover from 4th edition where models that were in terrain counted as having Initiative 10 when assaulted, unless the attackers had assault grenades.
... I think anyway, it's been a few years.
Bang on. Harlequins have 4th edition rules since GW never had the balls (or they might just have thought copy-paste was easier, who knows) to update them when they released a 5th edition codex containing them. In 4th the units got a buff from defending in cover (which is why Banshee Masks have outdated wording) while in 5th you get a debuff from taking difficult terrain tests to get to the defenders (which makes more sense, since now defenders can stand BEHIND cover and needn't be IN it).
|
I really need to stay away from the 40K forums. |
|
|
|
|
2012/01/26 11:02:02
Subject: Re:Shadowseers, Grenades and Flip Belts
|
|
Jealous that Horus is Warmaster
|
I see,
Cheers for the responses guys,
Thought it would be something silly for such a glaring contradiction to occur.
Hurtling towards 6th edition and still got units with 4th Ed references. Cracking.
Ta
Boar
|
Revilers 6,000pts
Dark Eldar 4,000pts
Cadian 229 regiment 3,000pts |
|
|
|
|
2012/01/26 11:52:13
Subject: Re:Shadowseers, Grenades and Flip Belts
|
|
Dakka Veteran
|
Let's not forget that assault grenades also allow them to attack vehicles with a S4 attack. The turn they charge they can already do that, but if they stay in base contact during the opponent's turn they can use their grenades.
Also, it's safe to assume that 6th edition will do something else with assault grenades, since the C'Tan Shard (Necron Codex) has an option to take them, even though it ignores terrain as well.
|
|
|
|
|
2012/01/26 15:02:10
Subject: Re:Shadowseers, Grenades and Flip Belts
|
|
Jealous that Horus is Warmaster
|
Yeah good point, I'd overlooked the vehicle assault factor.
1 point to that man 
Ta
Boar
|
Revilers 6,000pts
Dark Eldar 4,000pts
Cadian 229 regiment 3,000pts |
|
|
|
|
2012/01/26 17:32:08
Subject: Shadowseers, Grenades and Flip Belts
|
|
Wicked Warp Spider
|
Can not help but wonder, if the Shadowseer is slain, does the squad retain "count as plasma grenades"?
|
I really need to stay away from the 40K forums. |
|
|
|
|
2012/01/26 18:46:48
Subject: Shadowseers, Grenades and Flip Belts
|
|
Kabalite Conscript
|
Mahtamori wrote:Can not help but wonder, if the Shadowseer is slain, does the squad retain "count as plasma grenades"?
no....do blood angels get fnp when their priest (i think its priest) dies
also your harlequins should be armed with kisses which are rending, allowing and roll of a 6 meaning S3(4) + 6 = 9(10) to be d3 higher so 10-12(11-13) why would you use grenades and lose all those extra attacks
|
|
|
|
|
2012/01/26 19:08:19
Subject: Shadowseers, Grenades and Flip Belts
|
|
Powerful Phoenix Lord
|
Because, Harley-kisses are optional wargear?
|
Greebo had spent an irritating two minutes in that box. Technically, a cat locked in a box may be alive or it may be dead. You never know until you look. In fact, the mere act of opening the box will determine the state of the cat, although in this case there were three determinate states the cat could be in: these being Alive, Dead, and Bloody Furious.
Orks always ride in single file to hide their strength and numbers.
Gozer the Gozerian, Gozer the Destructor, Volguus Zildrohar, Gozer the Traveler, and Lord of the Sebouillia |
|
|
|
|
2012/01/26 19:24:43
Subject: Shadowseers, Grenades and Flip Belts
|
|
Kabalite Conscript
|
Happyjew wrote:Because, Harley-kisses are optional wargear?
hence why I said SHOULD be armed with them, if you dont have them then duh yea used grenades when you're S3
but the question now is...why are your harlequins not armed with kisses, except for the troupe master with power weapon
|
|
|
|
|
2012/01/26 19:27:40
Subject: Shadowseers, Grenades and Flip Belts
|
|
Powerful Phoenix Lord
|
And Death Jester with Shrieker Cannon.
|
Greebo had spent an irritating two minutes in that box. Technically, a cat locked in a box may be alive or it may be dead. You never know until you look. In fact, the mere act of opening the box will determine the state of the cat, although in this case there were three determinate states the cat could be in: these being Alive, Dead, and Bloody Furious.
Orks always ride in single file to hide their strength and numbers.
Gozer the Gozerian, Gozer the Destructor, Volguus Zildrohar, Gozer the Traveler, and Lord of the Sebouillia |
|
|
|
|
2012/01/26 19:36:33
Subject: Shadowseers, Grenades and Flip Belts
|
|
Kabalite Conscript
|
Happyjew wrote:And Death Jester with Shrieker Cannon.
yes you want to put a shooting model in a unit which has fleet and wants to be running to get into cc riiiiiight /rolls eyes
|
|
|
|
|
2012/01/26 20:32:02
Subject: Re:Shadowseers, Grenades and Flip Belts
|
|
Regular Dakkanaut
|
Also note that flip belt don't ignore Dangerous Terrain (which also triggers I1 in assault). So if you charge over/through a vehicle wreck you'll be at I1 without the shadowseer. So it's not completely pointless.
|
|
|
|
|
2012/01/26 20:37:31
Subject: Re:Shadowseers, Grenades and Flip Belts
|
|
Incorporating Wet-Blending
|
Bugs_N_Orks wrote:Also note that flip belt don't ignore Dangerous Terrain (which also triggers I1 in assault). So if you charge over/through a vehicle wreck you'll be at I1 without the shadowseer. So it's not completely pointless.
The only thing that triggers I1 in assault is having to roll a difficult terrain test.......
|
Mannahnin wrote:A lot of folks online (and in emails in other parts of life) use pretty mangled English. The idea is that it takes extra effort and time to write properly, and they’d rather save the time. If you can still be understood, what’s the harm? While most of the time a sloppy post CAN be understood, the use of proper grammar, punctuation, and spelling is generally seen as respectable and desirable on most forums. It demonstrates an effort made to be understood, and to make your post an easy and pleasant read. By making this effort, you can often elicit more positive responses from the community, and instantly mark yourself as someone worth talking to.
insaniak wrote: Every time someone threatens violence over the internet as a result of someone's hypothetical actions at the gaming table, the earth shakes infinitisemally in its orbit as millions of eyeballs behind millions of monitors all roll simultaneously.
|
|
|
|
|
2012/01/26 20:38:44
Subject: Re:Shadowseers, Grenades and Flip Belts
|
|
The Hive Mind
|
Lordhat wrote:Bugs_N_Orks wrote:Also note that flip belt don't ignore Dangerous Terrain (which also triggers I1 in assault). So if you charge over/through a vehicle wreck you'll be at I1 without the shadowseer. So it's not completely pointless.
The only thing that triggers I1 in assault is having to roll a difficult terrain test.......
False. Difficult or Dangerous.
BRB page 36 2nd para on right wrote:To represent this, if an assaulting
unit had to take a difficult or dangerous terrain test
during their assault move, all of its models have their
Initiative value lowered to 1 when attacking, regardless
of other Initiative modifiers
|
My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals.
|
|
|
|
|
2012/01/26 20:47:21
Subject: Re:Shadowseers, Grenades and Flip Belts
|
|
Regular Dakkanaut
|
Yep, otherwise bikes wouldn't need grenades either as they always assault 6" through terrain and just take a Dangerous Terrain Test. I actually looked all of this up a while back because I asked myself the exact same question as the OP.
|
|
|
|
|
2012/01/26 20:51:53
Subject: Shadowseers, Grenades and Flip Belts
|
|
Incorporating Wet-Blending
|
I stand corrected. Thanks.
|
Mannahnin wrote:A lot of folks online (and in emails in other parts of life) use pretty mangled English. The idea is that it takes extra effort and time to write properly, and they’d rather save the time. If you can still be understood, what’s the harm? While most of the time a sloppy post CAN be understood, the use of proper grammar, punctuation, and spelling is generally seen as respectable and desirable on most forums. It demonstrates an effort made to be understood, and to make your post an easy and pleasant read. By making this effort, you can often elicit more positive responses from the community, and instantly mark yourself as someone worth talking to.
insaniak wrote: Every time someone threatens violence over the internet as a result of someone's hypothetical actions at the gaming table, the earth shakes infinitisemally in its orbit as millions of eyeballs behind millions of monitors all roll simultaneously.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
